New AC System

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Ribeye-Rare
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In reply to 88agswin • 5:18p, 9/3/23
AG
Quote:
When they solder the line set are they purging with Nitrogen? it's been proven that only 5% of contractors actually do that.
Man. That's a pretty terrible admission especially with the POE oils. Since you're in the biz, I believe you.

My A/C contractor friend is scraping to find guys and turning down jobs. And I don't doubt that some of the ones who do get hired cut corners. The 'old Joe' with 30 years of experience guy who is told by the boss to do the job right the first time is not the one who is going out in the truck these days, it seems.
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AggieGunslinger
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10:12p, 9/6/23
AG
FYI, in April we replaced the original 3 ton system from 1999 with a new one of the same size, my energy usage was cut by almost 50% in July and August compared to last year.
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Proposition Joe
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1:34a, 9/14/23
2 weeks of hell in the Texas heat with no AC. Finally get the new unit installed today...

First night the line freezes.
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Ribeye-Rare
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 10:12a, 9/14/23
AG
Proposition Joe said:
First night the line freezes.
I see you're posting at 1:34 AM. I'll bet you're disappointed to say the least.

I know you'll have your tech back out to fix you up.

Maybe it will be a simple adjustment to the TXV, the intake filter, or the fan, as I hope they didn't undercharge it or leave you with a leak, or left some contaminant in the system that will require them to open it back up.

Good luck. I imagine you spent some serious bucks.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to Ribeye-Rare • 10:21a, 9/14/23
Ribeye-Rare said:
Proposition Joe said:
First night the line freezes.
I see you're posting at 1:34 AM. I'll bet you're disappointed to say the least.

I know you'll have your tech back out to fix you up.

Maybe it will be a simple adjustment to the TXV, the intake filter, or the fan, as I hope they didn't undercharge it or leave you with a leak, or left some contaminant in the system that will require them to open it back up.

Good luck. I imagine you spent some serious bucks.

I'm obviously not very well-versed in this stuff, but frustrating because I accepted eating the cost of the new unit was the better value, and accepted that the 2 weeks to get it installed (and dealing with the heat) was the smarter play than taking the budget unit... and now the line freezing has started making me question whether the entire unit was the culprit at all and could have been salvaged/repaired.

First company said evaporator coil leak, second company said they couldn't see the leak but could hear a hissing and an addition of R22 they made didn't last (which seems to support a leak)... but just frustrating to get a brand new unit finally installed and seemingly the same issue?
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Bull Meachem
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 10:34a, 9/14/23
I feel you. I recently had one company(who installed my unit) tell me that I had to replace the entire copper line because I had a leak. I did some research and found out that is extremely rare. So I got a second opinion and they said the outside filter needed to be replaced. It was replaced and worked for one day. Then another company came out and this guy openly said he was struggling to diagnose the problem. He thought it was the compressor after doing a few checks but his final check said no.

The fourth guy came out looked at the install and noticed some issues. The original install company didn't wire the system correctly for my two stage system. That worked for an evening but he had to come back. The inside unit was missing a valve that should have been part of the initial install. That has the system working for about two weeks now but we're still on pins and needles.

Every company I used was "highly recommended", especially the install company. The whole thing made me feel like an idiot and maybe I was but I don't know how to work on an A/C system. I'm currently very grateful I didn't just take the first company's recommendation because it was an very expensive job.
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AgLA06
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 10:43a, 9/14/23
AG
Proposition Joe said:
Ribeye-Rare said:
Proposition Joe said:
First night the line freezes.
I see you're posting at 1:34 AM. I'll bet you're disappointed to say the least.

I know you'll have your tech back out to fix you up.

Maybe it will be a simple adjustment to the TXV, the intake filter, or the fan, as I hope they didn't undercharge it or leave you with a leak, or left some contaminant in the system that will require them to open it back up.

Good luck. I imagine you spent some serious bucks.

I'm obviously not very well-versed in this stuff, but frustrating because I accepted eating the cost of the new unit was the better value, and accepted that the 2 weeks to get it installed (and dealing with the heat) was the smarter play than taking the budget unit... and now the line freezing has started making me question whether the entire unit was the culprit at all and could have been salvaged/repaired.

First company said evaporator coil leak, second company said they couldn't see the leak but could hear a hissing and an addition of R22 they made didn't last (which seems to support a leak)... but just frustrating to get a brand new unit finally installed and seemingly the same issue?
Well, if I remember correct you didn't get a new unit sized specifically for your place, but an unused unit someone had. That's why it came at a discount. It's why I tried to steer you to something different because it often comes with issues like this.

Time = quicker than custom
Cost = cheaper than custom
Scope = not to ideal spec

Hopefully they get the kinks work out and it operates at a value for you moving forward.
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Jason_Roofer
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In reply to 88agswin • 1:09p, 9/14/23
Aren't Daikin parts available just down the road in Waller? That's why I went with a Daikin on my house in Hempstead. It was a nice unit. I liked it quite a bit.
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88agswin
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In reply to Jason_Roofer • 1:29p, 9/14/23
AG
Jason_InfinityRoofer said:
Aren't Daikin parts available just down the road in Waller? That's why I went with a Daikin on my house in Hempstead. It was a nice unit. I liked it quite a bit.
Yes they are from Waller and yes it is all made right there. It's NOT Daikin that we have the issues with....It's Trane. Customers XV20 system went out and the inverter and the compressor are bad. Trane said 4-6 weeks for the compressor and 3-4 MONTHS for the inverter. The unit won't operate without either part...I have been screaming and raising hell but feel like I am talking to a brick wall with Trane.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to AgLA06 • 3:22p, 9/14/23
AgLA06 said:
Proposition Joe said:
Ribeye-Rare said:
Proposition Joe said:
First night the line freezes.
I see you're posting at 1:34 AM. I'll bet you're disappointed to say the least.

I know you'll have your tech back out to fix you up.

Maybe it will be a simple adjustment to the TXV, the intake filter, or the fan, as I hope they didn't undercharge it or leave you with a leak, or left some contaminant in the system that will require them to open it back up.

Good luck. I imagine you spent some serious bucks.

I'm obviously not very well-versed in this stuff, but frustrating because I accepted eating the cost of the new unit was the better value, and accepted that the 2 weeks to get it installed (and dealing with the heat) was the smarter play than taking the budget unit... and now the line freezing has started making me question whether the entire unit was the culprit at all and could have been salvaged/repaired.

First company said evaporator coil leak, second company said they couldn't see the leak but could hear a hissing and an addition of R22 they made didn't last (which seems to support a leak)... but just frustrating to get a brand new unit finally installed and seemingly the same issue?
Well, if I remember correct you didn't get a new unit sized specifically for your place, but an unused unit someone had. That's why it came at a discount. It's why I tried to steer you to something different because it often comes with issues like this.

Time = quicker than custom
Cost = cheaper than custom
Scope = not to ideal spec

Hopefully they get the kinks work out and it operates at a value for you moving forward.

No, that was option 3 (unused unit someone had could be installed next day) -- that was the budget unit I decided wasn't worth spending the same amount on.
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Proposition Joe
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3:23p, 9/14/23
What I assume is the main tech guy came out today. He seemed rather annoyed at the job the (his) installers did. Said a few things were crimped, they got insulation on the filter, and didn't put in enough coolant. Fingers crossed that's all it was.
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Proposition Joe
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12:04a, 9/15/23
And none of those were apparently it, line frozen tonight again.
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maddiedou
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7:33a, 9/15/23
AG
Now I am no expert I have apartments and fiddle with it sometimes

Turn the ac off and fan on before they come because you can not get an accurate reading if still frozen

If the freon is low. I thinknyou have a solder leak or the new unit is leaking BUT they should have known this when they pulled a vacuum

Keep asking them what is wrong because I and I would assume texags are interested with what is going on
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maddiedou
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 7:34a, 9/15/23
AG
Proposition Joe said:
And none of those were apparently it, line frozen tonight again.



OH AND THIS DOES SUCK for you and I hope it all gets fixed I cant imagine how your feeling
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88agswin
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In reply to maddiedou • 9:05a, 9/15/23
AG
maddiedou said:
Now I am no expert I have apartments and fiddle with it sometimes

Turn the ac off and fan on before they come because you can not get an accurate reading if still frozen

If the freon is low. I thinknyou have a solder leak or the new unit is leaking BUT they should have known this when they pulled a vacuum

Keep asking them what is wrong because I and I would assume texags are interested with what is going on






The vacuum should have showed it and if they would have pressure tested it with nitrogen before pulling the vacuum they would have known
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Proposition Joe
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11:35a, 9/15/23
They are coming back out tomorrow, just has become even more of a pain as we're going to be out of town until Monday so having to coordinate someone to come over and babysit the house while they are there.

The next thing they seem to think it may be is the ductwork -- that its simply not big/robust enough to handle what the unit is giving it. So he said they are going to replace the ducts and the vents.

Seems like a stupid question but again I've never been down this road before -- I got quoted an all-in price for the unit and the installation with warranty... Is this gonna be a scenario where I get a phone call on Saturday saying duct work, etc... is gonna be another $2k?
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Chase
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 11:51a, 9/15/23
AG
Proposition Joe said:
They are coming back out tomorrow, just has become even more of a pain as we're going to be out of town until Monday so having to coordinate someone to come over and babysit the house while they are there.

The next thing they seem to think it may be is the ductwork -- that its simply not big/robust enough to handle what the unit is giving it. So he said they are going to replace the ducts and the vents.

Seems like a stupid question but again I've never been down this road before -- I got quoted an all-in price for the unit and the installation with warranty... Is this gonna be a scenario where I get a phone call on Saturday saying duct work, etc... is gonna be another $2k?
Replacing our flexible ducting in a house a little bigger than yours cost us almost $2k, yes.

If you have all registers open and they are all pushing out air, the likelihoood of it being a duct is pretty low unless you have separate ducts that do return air.

In my experience, freezing up is usually a refrigerant issue (leak or blockage) or severely clogged filter/blocked air return. Less common is too small of an air return, dirty fins outside that need to be cleaned or blower not working to push the air out.
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maddiedou
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3:24p, 9/15/23
AG
If they quote to replace duct I would try to get in writing that if still freezes up I want that money reimbursed

Also my biggest question is what are the gauges reading the same or low on freon

Do you know anybody with ac guages that can come check the low side and report back to us

Also I did not know bad duct would do this but it kinda makes sense if collapsed
I truly am sorry you are going thru this
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TruService HVAC
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6:21p, 9/15/23
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Text me pictures of your install as well as models of each part tonight to 979-422-0148 and I will give you a free, honest evaluation. No way in hell would I let them work on this system without being there and even bigger hell no on replacing your duct work.
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BosAG06
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9:17p, 9/15/23
AG
They should have assessed ductwork and any other variables before even quoting and installing new unit. Not sure who you are dealing with but they don't seem very competent in my opinion. And I agree, not even sure why they are already trying to go down the path of it being a duct issue, extra $$ etc. Sounds like a ****ty rushed installation, low Freon and maybe more. I'd be very cautious with them and be very firm on you will hold them accountable for their warrant, hopefully they will still be around for that. Don't mean to scare you but seems fishy
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Proposition Joe
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10:03p, 9/15/23
I appreciate the input everyone. Company has been around a while and came reccomended. I'll reserve comment until I hear what he has to say tomorrow after looking at it but I agree that trying to say we need new ductwork after installation does make me feel a bit on the hosed side.

Ultimately not sure what the option will be at that point though - can't really tell them to "uninstall" a $9k install.
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Allen Aggie
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 11:42p, 9/15/23
AG
Proposition Joe said:
Had another company come out that came strongly recommended. His guys put in 2lbs of R22 and while it made for a pleasant night, by morning we weren't getting below 75 and the condenser line had frozen again.

First company said it was an evaporator coil leak, and while second company said they couldn't locate the leak they could hear a small hiss so they didn't disagree that was the culprit, just that it might have been inside the unit which may not be fixable/patchable? Not 100% sure on that part.

Second company just left and he seemed far more best option than sell a new unit. Said he'd get me a quote for what it would cost to replace/repair the evaporator coil, as well as a quote on a new system. Said he hates to recommend just fixing it due to the price and phase out of the R22 and the unit already being 16+ years old, but wanted me to have both options.

Obviously will just wait to see the quote, but what price range are we actually talking for a relatively small (1500 sq ft) house? The first company gave me a $16k-$25k range (fully installed) depending on unit, which seemed about $5-8k on the high side to me but I may be completely clueless.
This is way too high.
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maddiedou
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 7:39a, 9/16/23
AG
Proposition Joe said:
I appreciate the input everyone. Company has been around a while and came reccomended. I'll reserve comment until I hear what he has to say tomorrow after looking at it but I agree that trying to say we need new ductwork after installation does make me feel a bit on the hosed side.

Ultimately not sure what the option will be at that point though - can't really tell them to "uninstall" a $9k install.


I agree you are in a hard situation but I know from owning apartments that not every problem is an easy fix and can be the smallest thing that has beennoverlooked but regardless my job is to make it right if Inhave to call asecond person or give you money back

I promise whatever my profit plus would be coming back to you for this issue that your having

Call the ac guy above because having somebody give you ac knowledge gives you something to discuss logically with the owner
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Chase
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In reply to maddiedou • 12:21p, 9/16/23
AG
maddiedou said:
If they quote to replace duct I would try to get in writing that if still freezes up I want that money reimbursed

Also my biggest question is what are the gauges reading the same or low on freon

Do you know anybody with ac guages that can come check the low side and report back to us

Also I did not know bad duct would do this but it kinda makes sense if collapsed
I truly am sorry you are going thru this


This can be checked in a rudimentary wat without even looking st the ducts themselves as long as you aren't talking about air return ducts.. just check for air flow at each duct. The blockage has to be significant for it to cause it to freeze up this quickly.

Also, as others said, the ducts shpuld have been checked when replacing the entire unit...oft hey didn't, did they even look st the supply plenum box and connectiosn at each end of each duct?
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TruService HVAC
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7:04p, 9/16/23
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I have a minute so I'll add this. Your duct work is not the problem or it would have always been a problem. If you've got Sheetmetal duct there is a chance that the liner has become detached and is blocking air flow. I've had this happen to me once.
I believe you have an issue mechanically with the new system.
You need to open the blower door on the furnace and make sure that they removed the base pan of the furnace. This is the only thing I can think of that would be a quick fix if you're not feeling airflow. The other elephant in the room is control voltage wiring. Is the outdoor unit shutting off when the thermostat is off? They very well could have wired the low voltage wrong and the tech that came out and added Freon missed it. Go turn the thermostat up and make sure the indoor fan and outdoor unit shut off.

You need to ask the next person that shows up that you want to know and write this stuff down:
A) suction pressure
B) head pressure
C) super heat
D) sub cool.

With those four items you can know where the real problem lies. A freezing coil is due to low suction pressure. Low suction can be a low charge, low air flow, bad txv, or condenser staying on after blower shuts off.
You should have a 10-20 degree superheat and a 7-10 sub cool. Your head pressure should have the outdoor coil about 10 degree higher than the ambient temp. There's a chance they toasted the TXV when they soldered in the evap coil. There's a chance they've got a leak. If you can get the info I posted above I can point you in a better direction.
I'll say this too…..stuff happens…we've done things wrong more than once in our tenure but we always strive to make it right regardless of the cost to us.
Good luck.
Oh and don't forget to register your new equipments warranty.
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barnacle bob
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7:47a, 9/20/23
AG
Any updates?
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maddiedou
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7:49a, 9/20/23
AG
I was wondering same
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Ribeye-Rare
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10:33a, 9/20/23
AG
Me too.

I just hope the OP isn't cooling his heels in the county jail after assaulting his contractor.
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