Just moved into a new(different) house. Master bath and guest bath on opposite sides of the house. This past weekend wife drying hair(master) and daughter straightening hair (guest) GFCI tripped several times.
Yesterday, wife drying hair in Master and GFCI tripped. Reset in Guest bath and tripped again. Finished drying hair in Guest bath with no problem.

Weak GFCI in Master?

Yeah, start with replacing the gfci outlets. They can become worn out and sensitive. If that doesn't work, then you can start the real fun.

BenTheGoodAg said:

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I'd start with a new GFCI.

For clarity, it also sounds like you've got a single GFCI protecting multiple outlets with some long cable runs across the house? GFCIs can trip due to very small amounts of leakage current, which is normal with very long cable runs on the load side.

If that's a factor, you may need independent GFCIs at each location. Should be easy enough to separate, but not quite sure where your GFCI is located based on your question (Breaker box vs Master vs Guest Bath)?

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A couple of odd things. 9 year old house and the breaker panel is outside(exterior wall). All bathrooms(2 on one side of the house and 1.5 on the other) reset from the same GFCI in the bathroom nearest the breaker panel. The breakers in the panel have test/reset switches.
I can read some of the labels in the panel, but not all, and we haven't been in the house long enough for me to test/relabel all the breakers.
Second day in the house the vanity(led) lights in the Master Bath(cause of GFCI tripping) turned on and then started random flashing. Only did it that day.

I'll start by replacing the Master Bath GFCI.

Thanks

Sounds like a lot going on for a single GFCI. Hope replacing it will kick it.

If you do end up having to separate GFCIs, you'll have to move some of the downstream circuits that are wired on the the load side of that existing GFCI on the line side to reduce nuisance trips. It may take a little investigating to ring it out properly, and it could take a few extra GFCIs depending on how it is currently wired. It's something we can help with, but it would definitely be easier if the new GFCI does the trick.

Good luck.

Stop blow drying hair in master.. easy fix

howdyags12! said:

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Stop blow drying hair in master.. easy fix

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Do you know my wife - exactly what she did! Went to the guest bath so if it did trip, she was right there to reset it.

TMfrisco said:

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howdyags12! said:

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Stop blow drying hair in master.. easy fix

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Do you know my wife - exactly what she did! Went to the guest bath so if it did trip, she was right there to reset it.

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Nice, sounds like you found a keeper!

You can't run a hair dryer and straightener on the same 20 amp circuit. Each one is pulling 12+ amps. If you were doing this you probably made the gfci outlet weak and it will be more prone to tripping. Or are these 2 different circuits ?

I would start by replacing the GFCI outlet

And while you have that breaker off on that circuit you need to check every outlet and switch, the neutrals,hots and ground wires and make sure all wires are tight. I have seen this issue also caused by loose outlets that either had a ground loose on them or a hot or neutral loose on the terminals.

Bath GFICs are NOT supposed to support hair dryers that today run in watts similar to 1/2hp motors!

IF also the MBR outlet trips then my prime suspect is the electrician and poor mgt builder that included that nearby outlet unproperly in that prudent bath circuit to save themselevs time/money.

Spec/tract house?
If "custom" please cite names so all can avoid such profiteering.
Hoping its just a bad profiteering part and cite ,,, TEMU/China = SOP?

JP76 said:

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You can't run a hair dryer and straightener on the same 20 amp circuit. Each one is pulling 12+ amps. If you were doing this you probably made the gfci outlet weak and it will be more prone to tripping.

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It's popping the GFCI, not the breaker, so it's not overload. GFCI's trip on imbalance between phase and neutral, not overload. And you don't "weaken" a GFCI. It just sits there and watches, and if it's rated for X amps, it can handle X amps (15 or 20) all day long. You might have a GFCI start to get ****ty, but it's a manufacturing or component thing not a load issue.

tgivaughn said:

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Bath GFICs are NOT supposed to support hair dryers that today run in watts similar to 1/2hp motors!

IF also the MBR outlet trips then my prime suspect is the electrician and poor mgt builder that included that nearby outlet unproperly in that prudent bath circuit to save themselevs time/money.

Spec/tract house?
If "custom" please cite names so all can avoid such profiteering.
Hoping its just a bad profiteering part and cite ,,, TEMU/China = SOP?

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Holy stream of consciousness Batman.

Now why exactly would a, say 15A GFCI, not be able to handle a 15A load? The plug on the end of that Harinator 5000 blower means something. Unless it has the two prongs going in two different directions (one up and down, then one sideways) then it's a 5-15P and you can run it all day long on a 15A receptacle, GFCI or otherwise.

OP isn't resetting the breaker, so it's not an overload issue. GFCI's will trip for two reasons: it's seeing more than a nominal 5 milliamps of differential current between the phase and the neutral, or the GFCI has failed and it thinks it's seeing more than 5 milliamps. The problem is there are a lot of ways to get to 5 milliamps.

As Ben noted you get capacitive leakage in long circuits downstream from the GFCI. It's called preloading. And then you have two of the biggest offenders for leakage currents in appliances - heaters and motors - put together in the blow dryer.

OP said the two appliances popped the GFCI. A little leakage from the blow dryer, a little from the straightener, a little on the circuit equals pop.

Then then blow dryer by itself popped in MBR.

The blow dryer by itself in guest bath, where the GFCI is, worked just fine. That tells me it's probably not the blow dryer by itself, but a combination of blow dryer and preloading on the circuit going from guest to MBR. Replacing the GFCi won't hurt, but you might still have a challenge.

Try plugging both blow dryer and straightener into guest GFCI receptacle. If it pops, you have leakage in the appliances. Not a huge deal, it happens with heating elements. I've had a kitchen equipment manufacturer flat out tell me their widget cannot go on a GFCI protected device. Next try plugging the blow dryer and straightener into a different GFCI. If it pops again, then it's not a device issue.

As far as Temu or whatever that was, it's not how I would wire it, but most homes, production and custom, will have one GFCI device protect receptacles in multiple bathrooms, or a bathroom and a powder room. It comes out of a code requirement on how you have to isolate bathroom receptacle circuits.

UnderoosAg said:

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tgivaughn said:

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Bath GFICs are NOT supposed to support hair dryers that today run in watts similar to 1/2hp motors!

IF also the MBR outlet trips then my prime suspect is the electrician and poor mgt builder that included that nearby outlet unproperly in that prudent bath circuit to save themselevs time/money.

Spec/tract house?
If "custom" please cite names so all can avoid such profiteering.
Hoping its just a bad profiteering part and cite ,,, TEMU/China = SOP?

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Holy stream of consciousness Batman.

Now why exactly would a, say 15A GFCI, not be able to handle a 15A load? The plug on the end of that Harinator 5000 blower means something. Unless it has the two prongs going in two different directions (one up and down, then one sideways) then it's a 5-15P and you can run it all day long on a 15A receptacle, GFCI or otherwise.

OP isn't resetting the breaker, so it's not an overload issue. GFCI's will trip for two reasons: it's seeing more than a nominal 5 milliamps of differential current between the phase and the neutral, or the GFCI has failed and it thinks it's seeing more than 5 milliamps. The problem is there are a lot of ways to get to 5 milliamps.

As Ben noted you get capacitive leakage in long circuits downstream from the GFCI. It's called preloading. And then you have two of the biggest offenders for leakage currents in appliances - heaters and motors - put together in the blow dryer.

OP said the two appliances popped the GFCI. A little leakage from the blow dryer, a little from the straightener, a little on the circuit equals pop.

Then then blow dryer by itself popped in MBR.

The blow dryer by itself in guest bath, where the GFCI is, worked just fine. That tells me it's probably not the blow dryer by itself, but a combination of blow dryer and preloading on the circuit going from guest to MBR. Replacing the GFCi won't hurt, but you might still have a challenge.

Try plugging both blow dryer and straightener into guest GFCI receptacle. If it pops, you have leakage in the appliances. Not a huge deal, it happens with heating elements. I've had a kitchen equipment manufacturer flat out tell me their widget cannot go on a GFCI protected device. Next try plugging the blow dryer and straightener into a different GFCI. If it pops again, then it's not a device issue.

As far as Temu or whatever that was, it's not how I would wire it, but most homes, production and custom, will have one GFCI device protect receptacles in multiple bathrooms, or a bathroom and a powder room. It comes out of a code requirement on how you have to isolate bathroom receptacle circuits.

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Just for a little more clarity. Three bathrooms are all protected by the GFCI in a Guest bath (maybe the half bath as well, but we don't really run anything on those plugs). Wife was in the MBR, daughter was in GBR(without GFCI). Both running tripped GFCI in 3rd bathroom - could just have been dryer in MBR and Staightener in other GBR had nothing to do with it. Days later, wife using dryer in MBR tripped GFCI. Guest baths are on one side of the house and Master is on the other.

"it's rated for X amps, it can handle X amps (15 or 20) all day long"

So if it is a 15 amp rated gfci outlet and he is running 18+amps continuous from 2 devices that has no effect of the gfci operation from an overloading perspective ?

It would trip the breaker eventually due to overcurrent. GFCIs don't trip on overcurrent, they trip on the tiniest of tiny current imbalances between the hot and neutral lines (indicative of current leakage through a place where you don't want it... as in a human body standing in a bathtub).

JP76 said:

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"it's rated for X amps, it can handle X amps (15 or 20) all day long"

So if it is a 15 amp rated gfci outlet and he is running 18+amps continuous from 2 devices that has no effect of the gfci operation from an overloading perspective ?

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Underoos is dead on. The GFCI has no overload element, it strictly looks at differential current between hot and neutral. Overload is ultimately provided by the breaker.

There's also a misconception about 15A vs 20A receptacles. The rating refers to the prong configuration (NEMA 5-15R vs 5-20R). So on a 15A GFCI duplex receptacles, you have two NEMA 5-15R outlets, each designed for a 15A load, though you wouldn't be able to run both at full load.

My question is does exceeding 15 amps consistently on a 15 amp gfci do anything to compromise its integrity if it is on 20 amp 12/2 circuit ?

And what actually causes them to fail ?

I have seen old ones fail and new ones. I have seen them fail after a close lighting strike to the structure. But what I commonly see is a loose gfci or other outlet in the same circuit that has a loose connection on it on either the ground, neutral or hot.

JP76 said:

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"it's rated for X amps, it can handle X amps (15 or 20) all day long"

So if it is a 15 amp rated gfci outlet and he is running 18+amps continuous from 2 devices that has no effect of the gfci operation from an overloading perspective ?

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GFCI has nothing to do with overload. The little GFCI man would smile and watch 30A go by and just wave. It's only looking at imbalance. If X amps goes out on the hot, X amps should come back on the neutral. If you don't get X amps come back on the neutral, it came back elsewhere, usually via the ground, which indicates a ground fault. Toaster in the bathtub, frayed wire touching the washing machine chassis and Mr Jones touching the washer, cutting through an extension cord with an electric trimmer, etc mean you have current running to ground, potentially thru Mr Jones, instead of coming back on the neutral. It only takes a few milliamps to throw your heart outta whack, which is why the GFCI threshold is a nominal 5 milliamps.

You could have a Temu phone charger pulling a fraction of an amp, and if the cord is frayed or gets wet, it will trip the GFCI.

The GFCI doesn't care how many great big fat persons get on the elevator, as long as the same number get off that got on. It's the breaker that keeps too many great big fat persons from snapping the cable.

A small amount of leakage in an appliance isn't a big deal. A small amount of capacitive leakage or preloading on a circuit isn't a big deal. But those small amounts can add up and nuisance trip the GFCI.

Once had a brand new school science lab building. Come lab day, all the hot plates kept popping the GFCI's. After a long *****fest about design and construction it was determined the Temu hot plates had just enough leakage they wouldn't work on a GFCI receptacle. Never tripped the breaker. It happens.

Now there could still certainly be caddywhompus wiring in OP's house, but chase those gremlins when they appear. Multiple rooms on one GFCI device, or multiple appliances on one circuit isn't automatically the problem.

It's a manufactured product. Some fail early, some late, some never.

Lightning strikes have a bad habit of running all over the place in the ground, and thru the ground wire. That can cook the device and accelerate failure. Brother's neighbor's house took a strike and it tripped GFCI's up to four houses down on either side.

If you swap it be sure and look at input labels. More than once I've installed a new one "the same way" the old one was and it didn't work. Come to find out they flipped the labels / polarity on the back of the new one (flipped hot / neutral or whatever).

JP76 said:

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My question is does exceeding 15 amps consistently on a 15 amp gfci do anything to compromise its integrity if it is on 20 amp 12/2 circuit ?

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No - they're rated for 20 Amp pass-through. The 15A rating only refers to a single outlet. The thermal cycling at higher load sure might contribute to wear and tear, but it won't lead to premature failure.

Examples: Eaton, Leviton. The term used is "Feed-through" ampacity.