My son is a high school senior considering joining the Corps this fall. He "Spent the Night With the Corps", and liked the outfit he stayed with. But not knowing anyone currently in the Corps, its difficult to get the "skinny" on different outfits. There are good ones and bad ones, each with their own culture and things they stress as important.

He will probably end up D&C, so which major unit is not important. Anyone with first hand knowledge, what are some of the good well rounded outfits across the Corps you would recommend? Perhaps with a healthy stress of grades, but also good participation in Corps and intramural activities?

Thanks in advance-

E-2 (Navy/Marine), Squadron 17 (Air Force), E-1 (Army).

[This message has been edited by rebel06 (edited 3/15/2013 8:53a).]

What Rebel said.

N-1 on the Navy/Marine side of the Quad.

What rebel said x2

What rebel said too (im in one of those outfits)

This -

E-2 (Navy/Marine), Squadron 17 (Air Force), E-1 (Army).

Generally speaking, the larger outfits seems to be better. More cadets means they have a larger pool to choose leadership from.

Almost 1/3 of next year's corps leadership are cadets from N-1. They must be doing something right.

Squadron 20 is also a good grades outfit. Not so much on the intermurals though. I would definitely say give N-1 a shot. Of course, I'm a BQ, so my knowledge is a little limited

For the love of God don't join squadron 20. It is an outfit for guys that want to go to grad school, so they don't have to do many corps activities or go to all the formations. In other words, it's for people that want to be in the corps but don't want to actually have to do anything the corps does.

Whatever you do, don't join SQ 20. They only have the best grades in the Corps and 3 of their academic seniors were selected for Who's Who in American Colleges and Universities. You definitely wouldn't want that for your son!

S-2 (Navy/Marine) A new outfit.

You will never get an objective recommendation for which outfit to join. Everyone is too ingrained in their own primacy biases to give any advice. Plus, the day you graduate, the outfit you knew no longer exists. Saying "Sq 94 is the best because it was good at grades when I was a senior in '79" is like saying "The Zulus might rise up and contend for world domination this year because they were pretty good against the Europeans in the 18th century".

Good luck to your kid, whatever route he chooses.

From a D Co guy: E-1, E-2, D-2, A-2, H-1, K-1, N-1. Oh, and D Co, but that would be a bit of a delay in current plans. Just suggestions, though. Spend the Night With the Corps is a huge recruiting event for them, but that's understandable. I'd be more concerned if somebody spent the night with the Corps and had a bad time...

quote:

---

Plus, the day you graduate, the outfit you knew no longer exists.

---

Nail on the head right here.

That being said, my opinion, based of what things were like more than 4 years ago when I was there (meaning I don't know any current cadets) is Sq 16 for Air Force outfits, N-1 for Navy/Marine outfits, and Army is a toss up but based off my senior year I'd give E-1 the nod for Army.

Thanks for all the input!

Tango Mike, you crack me up, but you did nail it in on the head. I was in the Corps a long time ago, and I've asked a few of my Corps buddies from way back when their opinions or if they knew anyone CURRENTLY in; young or old, each tends to respond with their old outfit! I started feeling like I was a senior again hollering out the window from my cush corner room, "Hey Fish Jones, what outfit are you in???!". Ah, the good ol' days...

But even though no one can be really objective about it, I thought a few common names might pop up. I really do appreciate everyone's input.

I completely agree with Tango Mike's assessment. I tend to believe that larger outfits have more of a presence outside of the quad which makes them more well rounded and smaller outfits specialize. The best advice I can give is snwc. Don't be afraid to check out other outfits while you're here.

If Trident 88 is pulling that 1/3 crap, then I'm sticking up for my old outfit. 17 has 2 key leaders and a Student Body President. Sq. 17, E-2, E-1 are the way to go... Trend here with those outfits are that they are all male

quote:

---

Trend here with those outfits are that they are all male

---

this

D-2

My recommendation is that they quit running outfits like freaking frats and assign incoming cadets rather than recruit them.

That will equalize size and quality among the outfits quicker than anything.

Nahh. I wouldn't have joined the corps if I couldn't have joined the outfit I chose. The current system is like capitalism... The good outfits get a good reputation and get a lot of new fish. The bad outfits don't get new joins and end up getting disbanded.

Texrex is right in a way... You choose the outfit based on similarities you have with what that outfit is involved with... The corps does have a cap on how many fish each outfit can hand pick. After that number is reached, usually 10, it is first come first serve. And there is a reason the good outfits that have a good reputation around campus are always the ones to fill the fastest.

With Corps membership continuing to grow, are most outfits maxing out during the new student conferences? Or are there just a handful that tend to get the most interest and max out?

My son will be a fish next year and, after a couple of spend the night programs, knows which outfit matches up with him best. He signed up for one of the very first NSCs of the Summer just to make sure that a spot would still be open. We did notice however that he is going to be asked to list his first three choices of outfit. Hopefully that is just in case his first choice wasn't available, right?

That "all male outfit" stuff is a bunch of nonsense. Any outfit can be good, produce good leaders and individuals, and both male and integrated outfits have done that.

Also, assigning fish is not good. Cadets start getting lazy and stop volunteering for recruiting when that happens. The best outfits will succeed, the lazy outfits won't.

quote:

---

We did notice however that he is going to be asked to list his first three choices of outfit. Hopefully that is just in case his first choice wasn't available, right?

---

Just tell him to put the outfit he wants as his first choice and leave the rest blank. Or if he wants to be a smartass, put his number 1 choice in all 3 spaces. If they try to pull any shenanigans and force him into an outfit he doesn't want to be in, just have him say he is only interested in joining the corps if he can be in his first choice of outfits. The corps would never let a potential cadet slip through their fingers. IMO, it's complete BS that they would try to put him somewhere he doesn't want to be. It's his college career, not theirs.

quote:

---

That "all male outfit" stuff is a bunch of nonsense. Any outfit can be good, produce good leaders and individuals, and both male and integrated outfits have done that.

---

You're right, great leaders have come from both integrated and non integrated outfits. But from what I saw in the corps, camaraderie is much higher in all male outfits. And it's a lot more fun. I hate to compare the corps to a frat, but imagine if your frat started letting women join. The fun level would plummet (unless they were really hot).

He's going to get a good experience in some form or another regardless of outfit. If every outfit was "bad" then they wouldn't be there for him to pick. This new commandant seems to deal with discipline problems quickly.

Example:
I was supposed to be in F-2, chose to be in F-2, and when the time came to pack I got a letter saying I was in D-2. I sucked it up and went with it. I honestly didn't want to appear like I was complaining before I even got there. When I got there, D-2 was not one of the best outfits (we had the lowest grades in the corps and were on probation for what had happened previous years and as a consequence my class only had 9 fish). At the start of my sophomore year there were 5 of us total that made it through. By my junior we had a bigger fish class. By my senior year we had the Corps Commander and won GM with a fish class of about 17. I wouldn't have traded my experience for anything and sometimes I think I ended up in D-2 by the grace of God.

My point is there are "better" outfits than others but if your son/daughter isn't in one of those he/she will still have a great experience.

quote:

---

You're right, great leaders have come from both integrated and non integrated outfits. But from what I saw in the corps, camaraderie is much higher in all male outfits. And it's a lot more fun. I hate to compare the corps to a frat, but imagine if your frat started letting women join. The fun level would plummet (unless they were really hot).

---

Not true at all. Granted we didn't squeeze multiple folks into a shower stall during FOW like some all male outfits did, couldn't have certain themes for CQ, or do other "bonding" activities, we had plenty of fun and are all very close.

To each his own. But I've never heard someone say they wish they had joined an integrated outfit.

How would legacy cadets be affected by a staff limit on fish class sizes?

E-2, E-1 & Sq.17. Sq. 2 should get a look as well.
What do you think Scruffy?

quote:

---

E-2, E-1 & Sq.17. Sq. 2 should get a look as well.
What do you think Scruffy?

---

You might want to consider E-2. I hear their numbers are down after some BS crap punishment enforced.

What do you think, Scruffy?

E1, E2, SQ 17, D1