That is very interesting, 69. I had never heard that.

olarmy69 is right - and I hated wearing khakis.

There was a distinction between issued serge and what was junior/senior priviledge - the western cut vs the plain straight seams and pocket flaps. Some of us referred to cowboy serge uniforms. There was also a difference in the fabric. Scalloped yoke seam, scalloped pocket flaps on trousers and shirts, a slight rise in the waistband at the rear. These were not issued, but purchased new from Zubick's at Northgate, Lautersteins, or some other custom uniform supplier, or purchased used from an upperclassman. Just like the midnights.

Yep that's right

You could not pleat the shirts ubtil a pisshead

Well, I've tried to resist, but I just can't. You guys from 69 just don't remember too clearly, now do you?

Fish and pissheads were not issued serge. We were issued two sets of khakis and two sets (summer) of a polyester blend that had to be dry cleaned LIKE serge. We also got two long sleeve shirts to wear with out pinks during the winter. The real serge uniforms were a slight bit darker in color, a tad heavier, and had the pointed pockets on the shirt and pants. They were much higher in quality than the polyester. Sergebutts had to buy them or get hand-me-downs. Yes, we had khakis that we only wore when we pissed of the unit CO by stealing his footlocker, but we did not have serge until our third year.

Ginkgo Biloba is your friend.

71;
I wore the same you described from 71-75. In '74 the corp came out with a jumpsuit that was allowed if you had a lab (I believe). I remember the western cut and straight flap pockets.

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man," Psalm 118:8.

[This message has been edited by NJ75AGfdt (edited 6/29/2013 11:14p).]

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You guys from 69 just don't remember too clearly, now do you?.....

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Yeah yeah yeah..... and those crappy polyester unis were often called "serge" tongue in cheek. If you never had to wear khakis as a fish then we now have a definitive date for when "Ole Army" died..... the fall of 1966.

It's pretty arrogant to call those cheap polyester uniforms "serge" just to say that someone in a lower class was wrong (when you knew that they are right).

And, a typical 69'er who can't read. We DID wear khakis. Read my post again. We stole Andy's footlocker in September and he put us in khakis for two friggin months, except for game day.

He had us doing other things for him, too, like running the golf course at midnight and hanging from the I beams in the band hall 'till we crapped out. All in addition to the usual "come-bys" that you guys loved so much. Yeah, Old Army was dead.

[This message has been edited by OldArmy71 (edited 7/1/2013 11:36a).]

I think the only trousers we had as fish were khakis and pinks. The khakis would wrinkle if you looked at them too hard. And the K2R smell was quite pungent around the fish holes. To this day, I still get into dress pants with my shoes already on, lol. Cracks my kids up!

[This message has been edited by DogCo84 (edited 7/2/2013 5:19a).]

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Does anyone think the Corps should adopt the modern service uniforms like most other ROTC programs have done?

Nope!

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the old style.

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I'm with Ark03, the old uniforms make us unique, just like all the senior military colleges... and lets face it... we look GOOD

Oh just stop it bq. I would think in all these years your skin would have thickened up just a bit......... grow the f up.

jr69, sure, glad to. It's just that I feel compelled to make sure that the facts are presented here for those that have no clue. '71 had it right, yet you felt it necessary to confuse the matter by presenting what are clearly not the facts.

Here's the facts for those that are now confused:

True serge was for white belts only back in the 60's and 70's. Khakis were issued for use until sometime until the mid 60's when polyester uniforms were also issued. When that changed, exactly, I don't know, but I think it has to do with the introduction of pin on rank about that time. I believe that the class of '67 was the last class that wore sew on corporal and PFC stripes on uniforms as pissheads, but it may have been the class of '68. I just remember that it was a pretty big deal at the time.

But, serge was a white belt privilege during that time, plain and simple. It was bought, not issued. As a zip, the serge boot pants were also purchased. In fact, I think all of the boot pants were purchased, pinks included.

Sorry I pissed you off.

[This message has been edited by ag-bq-seventy (edited 7/3/2013 9:04p).]

nothing never changes. BQs are all the same. My daughter '95 married a BQ '93 and raising little BQs.

I told him that one day I would have to whip his ass like we did BQs long ago.

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True serge was for white belts only back in the 60's and 70's. Khakis were issued for use until sometime until the mid 60's when polyester uniforms were also issued. When that changed, exactly, I don't know, but I think it has to do with the introduction of pin on rank about that time. I believe that the class of '67 was the last class that wore sew on corporal and PFC stripes on uniforms as pissheads, but it may have been the class of '68. I just remember that it was a pretty big deal at the time.

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Pretty accurate. I wore sergeant stripes sewn on my junior year. In the fall 1965 the pin on rank was installed. So the last class to wear sewn on rank would have been '67. I remember thinking the pin-on stuff looked really cheesy. Also that is when green tabs for commanding officers were initiated. Most of us considered the entire turn of events to be some sinister plot from the Trigon since it was common knowledge that the Commandant, Col. Baker, disliked the Aggie "class-buddy" system and wanted to cram a rank-based system down our throats. I never quite saw the connection, but there was a sizable group of hard-core "old Army" advocates among us who protested ANY AND ALL CHANGES. They even formed a committee called the "Committee to Keep A&M All Male Military".

Not sure what this has to do with midnight shirts. I get to re-living things sometimes, I guess.

It may be the dementia setting in but I would swear that the butts were issued serge uniforms in the fall of '75 (the year I was a butt) as well as the midnight shirt. We had to turn in some of our polyester uniforms to get the issue. The only thing I remember buying were boot pants.

But my memory ain't as sharp as it used to be.

it goes without saying that the "we need to look like EVERY OTHER DAMNED ROTC program" are simply wrong.

just like with this "get along with tsippers" crap.

the feds made a HUGE error when the army dropped the pinks & greens of ww2. The finest uniform in the history of this nation was cast aside ill-advisedly. thank the almighty that we don't follow the frigging McDonald's theory of dressing our cadets.

argue against this... I dare ya

Some of you may be confusing "suntan tropical" with "tropical worsted" uniform parts.

Or not. Lots of things picked up "aggie" names, too.

The history of uniforms at A&M is one of trying to leverage frugality, all while trying to follow US military fashions. After 1918, there were large stockpiles of uniform parts, all made to 'emergency' wartime spec. Those uniform parts were available, cheap, in bulk quantity. So, it made sense to stock the Military Warehouse with them in quantity.

In those days, one of the B uniforms was in and OD or "Midnight" green. This was worn in a green over green configuration, and also a green over khaki "undress" B uniform. The A uniform was, in sumer, a khaki single-breasted jacket over khaki trousers. (If memory serves, a 'light colored' shirt with olive tie was under the jacket.) Winter A was green jacket over green trousers, with light shirt and either black or olive tie.

Wool was the fabric used for formal attire in those days, so the stocks available would be the same. Wool, though, does not warehouse well without extensive moth protection.

Some of these uniform configurations can be seen worn by cadets in We've Never Been Licked.

Roll the clock to 1946. Again, huge stockpiles of unused uniform parts are stored away, available in big bundles, pretty cheap. Come 1949, the newly-created USAF switches to a blue uniform, and disestablishing their "Army Greens." In a similar timeframe, the US Army brings in the Midnight Blue A uniform, the "mint" green B uniform, and kept the TW (tropical worsted) khaki uniform (which actually has a "dress jacket" for overseas wear).

So, the cadet uniform was easily, and economically, provided from stocks of existing uniform parts.

This rolls on pretty well, other than if they buy 6 crates of TW shirts only to find that those are a wool blend, rather than a cotton-rayon blend--oops.

Then, near 1980, the Army drops the TW uniform entire. Briefly, the parts are available in huge quantities. But, no factories are making any any more.

Which is also part of the "boot debacle"--very few places make a quality military boot. The ones that do, are chock full of orders. If you need to order two thousand pair in demographic-weighted size cohorts, and you need economy, that will get you prices from people with "military style" boots.

For my two cents, I'd change to some almost-off-the-shelf components.

For B's, slate gray trousers with an epaletted whits shirt for summer, and a matching gray long-sleeve shirt for winter.

For A's, a black or charcoal single-breasted jacket with a self-belt.

This, mostly because I'm pretty sure the MPC/MPW budget would not much allow for following the Sea Services' practices of having a Full Dress, and Service Dress, model.

greys and whites? this would look OK, but be the spitting image of USMA, VMI, and the citadel to name 3. we should avoid being anyone's twin, unless they copy *US*.

why not rip off the zoomies? blue waistcoats and yellow sashes with white hats?

oh, I KNOW! we need some wrath of khan uniforms!

Corps Staff is white! The band yellow! The Wing blue, the regt is red, and the brigade is black!

Bwahahaha--that would make for excellent Formations. In fact, it would be very similar to when the kids have Formation in outfit t-shirts; just with fewer colors.

And, to prevent a "looks like other academies" effect, I was not thinking of a blue-grey, but more of the NY State Police uniform grey (which also comes in jodhpurs for boots, too).

My approach to thinking about this is to consider what the budget constraints are, and to work with those in my head.

That, rather than coming up with a fully-unique sort of thing, like a resurrected Zouave uniform or the like. Or, maybe Hussar or Dragoon attire.

It would be middling easy to promote a form of the Republic of Texas Army uniform, which was a black coat over white trousers--but, I've worn white uniforms, and would not wish that on cadets. Well, much--I had to try and get heel-n-sole out of Summer B trousers enough. And spots from rained-upon Prairie Film, too.

Fall of 1973 us new zips got issued 'fake' serge shirts/pants, I think 2 sets. Did not look near as good as the legacy shirts/pants purchased from '72 guys. It was custom back then to buy uniforms as a hand me down from the guys 2 classes above you. We also got issued a campaign hat.

I think A&M's WWII lineage uniform styles are extremely sharp and well defined. Would hate to see them change into what the US Army is wearing currently. Don't want our guys to look like cheap French waiters.

Too true.
We also do not want the kids to look like expensive french waithelp either <G>

Trickiest part about our present uniform is that no one much makes those uniform parts anymore. Which will add expense to Corps operations--which will not much help future Classes.

Bro of mine, who was trying to ensure his kid had decent gear got me involved in thinking about this. He had an interesting idea for a future uniform.

Which was a white over black/navy combo. Summer A's would be a navy-style white "choker" blouse over black trou. Winter A's would be a single-brested white jacket over a white shirt & black tie. B's would be white shirt s/s or l/s over black trou. White covers on visored caps, and black biders, for headgear.

As we battered this back-and-forth by email, there was talk of adding a stripe to the trousers, which could be a single color, or by "branch" (Band, Wing, etc.) or by class color.