Once again not surprised with the Corps...

11,499 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by Fly Army 97
Ark03
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AG
quote:
Both the CO & XO for the class of '03 were brought in from other BQ outfits. Both guys were well liked in the band and well respected, but that transition caused our outfit to basically implode for the year. I have a lot of respect for how both of them handled it, but I can also understand the reaction. It created an extreme attitude of empathy throughout the classes that lasted for at least the next three years. B-Batt went from being a highly motivated 2-cord outfit to being one of the least motivated and lowest performing outfits (can't say I'm too proud of that)
I was in another outfit, but as I recall the choices discussed were to disband B-Batt or bring in outside leadership from another BQ outfit. Serious question: do you think it would have been better for the cadets in B-Batt to be distributed among the other outfits and B-Batt as you knew it disbanded?

Edit to ask what two cords? I don't recall B-Battery exactly distinguishing itself before the incident either ...
JABQ04
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AG
B-Batt 04 here. We had the hocmuth and jj Sanchez.
joemeister
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AG
quote:
quote:
Both the CO & XO for the class of '03 were brought in from other BQ outfits. Both guys were well liked in the band and well respected, but that transition caused our outfit to basically implode for the year. I have a lot of respect for how both of them handled it, but I can also understand the reaction. It created an extreme attitude of empathy throughout the classes that lasted for at least the next three years. B-Batt went from being a highly motivated 2-cord outfit to being one of the least motivated and lowest performing outfits (can't say I'm too proud of that)
I was in another outfit, but as I recall the choices discussed were to disband B-Batt or bring in outside leadership from another BQ outfit. Serious question: do you think it would have been better for the cadets in B-Batt to be distributed among the other outfits and B-Batt as you knew it disbanded?

Edit to ask what two cords? I don't recall B-Battery exactly distinguishing itself before the incident either ...
My fish year we had the Hocmuth and Sanchez.

Selfishly, I would much rather have had outside leadership then to have been disbanded. Then again, it's also the band. There wasn't exactly a place to put us all, so I doubt that was ever a real possibility. I was at home after a car accident when the "incident" occurred, so all of the information I have about it is third hand. Even so, to this day I still feel like the punishment didn't fit the crime. B-Batt '03 had some really good people in it, they were made out to be the worst of the worst after that. I can't blame them for not caring much the next year. The real problem was that their apathy trickled down through the other 3 classes. As a pisshead, we were rarely disciplined and basically answered to ourselves. The fish really suffered for that and it showed the next two years. As to the two guys that were brought in to be CO/XO, both were forced to leave other leadership positions to take over B-Batt. It always felt to me that they were punished almost as badly as B-Batt '03 was. They clearly didn't want to be there.

There was an outfit that was disbanded because they couldn't keep their fish (B-2 maybe?). I knew a guy from that outfit, he said he always felt like an outcast. I think in the band it would have probably been easier since we all knew each other, but I can't say for sure.

If we had been disbanded, I don't think I would have quit. I wanted to be in the band from a very young age. B-Batt just happened to be where I ended up.
Warrior 66
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I would like to comment on a few points made on this thread.

First, I agree completely with Olaf. WAY too much erroneous/bogus info gets disseminated in a wide variety of ways by disgruntled cadets who try to paint a much "gloomier" picture than what actually exists. Exactly why I come on this site from time to time to try and set the record straight.

Second, although previous Commandants used to deactivate outfits for a pattern of negative behavior, I do NOT like to do that. I would much rather "fix" a failing unit than disband it. Maybe a difference in philosophy, but having seen "bad" outfits in the Army, I always found that populating "bad" outfits with good leadership always made a BIG difference, and in virtually every case that I saw, turned the outfit around. So I follow the same philosophy with the Corps: don't disband a "bad" outfit - FIX it with good leadership.

As a follow-on to that philosophy, as we have grown the Corps the last 4 years, we have REACTIVATED 9 company sized units that had been deactivated in the past, 2 Battalion HQs units (Infantry and Artillery Band staffs), and 1 Major Unit (3rd Regiment). It has worked very well for the Corps, and has allowed us to expand the number of leadership opportunities for members of the Corps. If you haven't been to a Reactivation Ceremony, I recommend you try to make it to one. Its very rewarding to see the former members of the reactivated outfits in attendance, proud to see their guidon once again flying in the Corps. Its a real eye-opener for our cadets to see grown men crying because their outfit is finally back in the Corps. Really puts the Corps experience in perspective for them.

Olaf also had it right in that about 25-30% of the outfit COs/XOs/1SGs will come from other outfits - NOT the outfit that they are going to lead in. I've done this since I got here, and it has worked to help "fix" problem outfits, has helped to eliminate apathy and mediocrity in some outfits, and helped to infuse some outfits with some badly needed motivation and esprit. That said, the VAST majority of our outfit leadership is "home-grown" - the leaders come from the same outfit they "grew up" in. Again, I will do what needs to be done to "fix" problem outfits (whatever that problem may be), and sometimes that means infusing that outfit with new leadership from outside the organization. It has worked well thus far, and I will continue this policy as necessary. And by the way, it truly is a great way to prepare cadets for the "real world," where change in leadership from OUTSIDE the organization is commonplace, both in the military and in the private and public sectors.

I can't speak for what was done in the past, and won't try to. But I thought I would let you know what we do today in our Corps, and why. Again, it may just be a difference in philosophy, which is fine, but I'm a big believer in "fixing" a problem organization - NOT eliminating it if I don't absolutely have to.

And for what its worth, while I was not here during LTG Van Alstyne's tenure as Commandant, I do know that he's as fine a military officer as you'll ever meet. He's a professional, a leader, and public servant, and served his nation and his university extremely well for over 40 years. I respect him and his service greatly, and whether you agree with his tenure as Commandant or not, I hope you will too.

Thanks again to all of you for your love and support of our Corps! Best wishes to all of you and your families for a Happy and Prosperous 2015! Gig 'em!
Montgomery Burns
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AG
quote:
BQ class of '05 here. Was a fish during the GVA transition. Looking back on things, there were definitely some issues that he tried to fix that needed fixing (grades, laziness, etc.), but in my opinion he wasn't able to recognize quickly enough when the initial fix was a failure, or when the cadets put in charge of implementing the fix clearly weren't getting the job done.

Regarding the issue of inserting a new CO/XO from a different outfit, B-Batt was one of the first under GVA to have this done. Both the CO & XO for the class of '03 were brought in from other BQ outfits. Both guys were well liked in the band and well respected, but that transition caused our outfit to basically implode for the year. I have a lot of respect for how both of them handled it, but I can also understand the reaction. It created an extreme attitude of empathy throughout the classes that lasted for at least the next three years. B-Batt went from being a highly motivated 2-cord outfit to being one of the least motivated and lowest performing outfits (can't say I'm too proud of that).

I think the failure is that peer leadership is very different than pure merit based leadership. You expect your peer-leaders to be guys you were fish with, that shared your struggles and are loyal to your buddies, outfit and class (probably in that order). Who cares if the guy from A-Batt was also a fish and stood on the wall and did everything else, he did it with A-Batt and wasn't there with you. It may seem petty, but put it into the perspective of a 19-20 year old kid. IMO if you truly want to shuffle CO/XOs, then the outfit structure should be shuffled every year based on major. Cadets will be loyal to the Corps first, then their outfit second.

As far as him disrespecting cadets he didn't like, I honestly don't know about that one. I butted heads with him personally at least twice during my junior year because I was almost dismissed for non-compliance with the newly implemented height/weight restrictions. I would not call either of those meetings cordial, but I managed to take care of my business and stay in the Corps, and he still shook my hand when I graduated.
I am BBatt class of '14. We had a 1SG from A-Co my senior year. He was, quite frankly, the best 1SG I have ever seen. He would have been BBatt CO, but he was given 2nd Reg command for his senior year.

I think the maturity level of the Corps (particularly at the white belt level) has progressed a lot, and outfits are much more receptive to other-outfit key leaders. This is a reality in the real world (especially in the military), and by moving leaders outfit-to-outfit as necessary cadets are better prepared for leadership post-Corps.

BBatt currently has a CO from ABatt, and from what I have heard it has been a positive experience.

Joemeister74, hope to see you at some outfit BBQs next year!
aggieswyn3
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quote:
you'll have to hold your breath a little longer. I'm not at home, and I'm not going to have my wife or my mother look through hundreds of video files to satiate your curiosity


Makes and outrageous claim, claims to have video as proof, then magically can't post the video. I guess that's about what I expected.
Fly Army 97
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Last I remember, Tango is deployed. Over time, he has been a pretty consistent poster on this forum. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt he can back up what he is saying.

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