Company D-1

31,703 Views | 93 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Whatthefunyo
Whatthefunyo
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I was a spider and served as the 1SG and commander. I recently got out of the Army after 8 years. I can say, without a doubt, Spider D taught me grit. Grit takes you a long way in this world. It will take you further than a diploma or kissing ass. I now work for one of the largest companies in the world, and people tell me regularly that they appreciate my ability to get the job done. These are all perseverance skills that Spider D taught me.

I came in as a POS high schooler thinking I was hot stuff. I left as a man. My upbringing and work experience didn't form me into who I am today. Spider D did. Those tactics, right or wrong, worked.

Unfortunately, the lawyers and the lazy seem to have a great scheme in America going to team up and level the playing field for everyone. It's unfortunate that Spider D, rather than being respected for its accomplishments in producing damn fine people, became a casualty.

I understand. Things have to change. But not everything does. Sometimes you must take the good with the bad.
Credible Source
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Isn't it cute that the poster above mentioned "bringing back" those old army activities that he thinks are gone?
Federale01
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For every one or two folks you can point to who thinks taking an axe handle somehow taught them how to deal with life, you can point to just as many people who did just fine without it. Yes, you have to have determination to be a leader. But lessons in how to take abusive treatment from superiors is what you teach serfs, not leaders. Call it what you want, determination, redassness, or grit, but if you allow someone to physically abuse you, you are no man.

Sure, pushing people physically and emotionally builds character and strength, that's why the military does it. Physical abuse has no place in the organization.
b_rad
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DDDDDEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVIIIIIIIILLLLLLL.....DDDDDDD.....RAMBL'N SCREAM'N DEMONS....THE BEST DAMN OUTFIT ANYWHERE!!!!!!
OldArmyNeverDiesAnon
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ALCON

I have very close knowledge of the events that led to the disbandment of Spider D and the formation of the "D-1 Devils." Technically speaking, it is not related to the "Devil-D" of the past (i.e., new logo, outfit hump-it, pass downs, traditions) and higher "leadership" in the Corps.

I wish I would have seen this thread earlier as I could have cleared up some things. I will now begin to respond to questions that have been posted in this thread and clarify any info that might be been spread around incorrectly..
OldArmyNeverDiesAnon
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OldArmyNeverDiesAnon
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Quote:

Any truth to rumor that D-1 was disbanded?
D-1, most recently known as Spider D, is renamed D-1 Devils.


Quote:

I am told there was a hazing issue. Current CO and 1st Sargent relieved of positions. All sophomores removed from outfit and I assume reassigned. Commandant appoints new CO from 1st Brigade staff for remainder of semester.

Both the Sophomore and Junior Classes (except for one Junior) were either removed from the University, Corps, or Outfit. The Commanding Officer and 1SG were both relieved and sent away to Air Force outfits. A member of 3rd Brigade Staff stepped in as the Commanding Officer and (at that time) the 1SG of another outfit in 3rd Brigade stepped in as 1SG.



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Quote:

Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.
I agree, it's the Corps of Cadets not a fraternity house.

I wonder how many Cadets are actually in fraternities
Although I agree that gross disobedience cannot and should not be tolerated in a military organization, the current state of the Corps holds less value than the average fraternity house. It is an absolute joke. None of my classmates and the majority of Cadets in upper-level ROTC consider the Corps a "military organization." No enforcement of standards. Cadets that fail PT tests allowed to stay in. Female fish threatened to be punished if they request to switch outfits. Cadets in motorized wheelchairs scooting laps around Spence Park and the Rec for "Physical Training." Yes, you read that right; there are multiple Cadets confined to motorized scooters with cerebral palsy.

The number of Cadets in fraternities has drastically increased in the last three years. As of Spring Semester 2018, I would guess it is upwards of 60 cadets. Every semester more and more male cadets in the ROTC programs rush fraternities to try and disassociate themselves with anything Corps related.

Quote:

I can't tell you what happened with D-1, but I will say this. You should attend a university hazing seminar, and then let us know if you agree with the university's definition of what constitutes hazing.
Not too sure what you meant by this but the hazing policy is completely up to whatever the fish says. For example: a sophomore in E-2 sprayed pumpkin spice aerosol into the "fallout hole" after a PT session so that it wouldn't smell like sweat and moldy clothing. A fish complained to his mother that a sophomore "gave him a headache from aerosol," and the sophomore was subsequently kicked out of the Corps.

Quote:

Is this the group that was waterboarding Fish?
There was no "waterboarding of fish by upperclassmen."



Edit: organization of post

OldArmyNeverDiesAnon
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The Corps is on pace to commission the most officers since 1980. Army alone will produce 105+.

For Cadet Command, GPA is the single most important factor in branch accessions. Across Cadet Command, 3.25 is considered the "median" in terms of accession points. PT is also very important, along with Camp performance.

A focus on academics is important for those Cadets seeking to commission in the most competitive branches.

To be guaranteed a spot in the Infantry -- the most selective branch -- a Cadet needs (approximately):

3.5 GPA (3.1 if you are a STEM major)
290-300 PT Score
Outstanding or Excellent rating at Camp
Finish Top 20% in the campus Order of Merit list.

Much lower than that and you need to commit to an additional 4-year active duty service obligation (8 total active duty) to have a chance. And even then it is "needs of the Army".

Medical Service Corps, Aviation, Armor, Engineers, and MI are slightly less competitive, in that order. But not much less.

I can't speak to what standards for PT, HT/WT looked like in the 90s, but the idea that standards are "low" now is false. At least among contracted/seeking Cadets. And I believe there are 2-3x more contracted cadets now than there were in the early 90s.

Infantry is not the most selective branch now. The accessions model has been changed drastically in just the last two years and GPA isn't as nearly as important. Standards of training are lower is what I believe he's saying. And they are. There's a reason that, for the last two years running, Texas A&M University Cadets have performed *below* the national average at Camp. Unless you are a member of Rudder's Rangers or Ranger Challenge, you are at a huge disadvantage.
OldArmyNeverDiesAnon
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I will be posting more information tomorrow about things that might ruffle a few feathers in Commandant's Staff if they happen to read this.

CT'97
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OldArmyNeverDiesAnon said:

Quote:

The Corps is on pace to commission the most officers since 1980. Army alone will produce 105+.

For Cadet Command, GPA is the single most important factor in branch accessions. Across Cadet Command, 3.25 is considered the "median" in terms of accession points. PT is also very important, along with Camp performance.

A focus on academics is important for those Cadets seeking to commission in the most competitive branches.

To be guaranteed a spot in the Infantry -- the most selective branch -- a Cadet needs (approximately):

3.5 GPA (3.1 if you are a STEM major)
290-300 PT Score
Outstanding or Excellent rating at Camp
Finish Top 20% in the campus Order of Merit list.

Much lower than that and you need to commit to an additional 4-year active duty service obligation (8 total active duty) to have a chance. And even then it is "needs of the Army".

Medical Service Corps, Aviation, Armor, Engineers, and MI are slightly less competitive, in that order. But not much less.

I can't speak to what standards for PT, HT/WT looked like in the 90s, but the idea that standards are "low" now is false. At least among contracted/seeking Cadets. And I believe there are 2-3x more contracted cadets now than there were in the early 90s.

Infantry is not the most selective branch now. The accessions model has been changed drastically in just the last two years and GPA isn't as nearly as important. Standards of training are lower is what I believe he's saying. And they are. There's a reason that, for the last two years running, Texas A&M University Cadets have performed *below* the national average at Camp. Unless you are a member of Rudder's Rangers or Ranger Challenge, you are at a huge disadvantage.
Branch accessions is set by ROTC command, not someone in the Trigon. The campus OML is set at the Trigon and that is only a small part of the overall ranking. I'm not sure where you are getting your information but it sounds a lot like barracks rumor to me.

It also sounds a lot like cry baby, blame someone else, panty waist. There is a long list of clichs' I could put in here but ultimately, I will tell you to stop looking to the Trigon for solutions and lead cadets in your outfit to success. Stop talking about the whole Corps, you can't affect the entire Corps. Be a leader in your outfit. Let your outfit be the standard by which everyone measures themselves.

You mention PT, it seems to be the main focus despite actually being a symptom and not a cause. Does your outfit PT program actually have a plan to it? Does it include much more than smoke the dog **** out of everyone for 30 min then go to chow? Guess what, that doesn't fly in any branch of the military because it doesn't work. It never worked and no military unit I was a part of used it. Set goals, establish methods to accomplish those goals and then create and execute a plan to implement those methods. If raising PT scores in your outfit is your goal do some research on PT plans that will accomplish that. FYI, there are a lot of NCO's in the Trigon who know this stuff and will probably be willing to help you with it.

Finally, I will use a clich, "It's easy to teach a good dog to hunt." Being a leader means being a leader to everyone in your outfit. Getting the entire outfit to meet the PT standard not just the ones who are physically gifted. Getting the entire outfit to meet the GPA standard not just the ones who are academically gifted. An axiom of leadership is that you spend 90% of your time with 10% of your people. It's not the 10% at the top that need your time, they got it, they are already performing. Be a leader and bring everyone else up to the standard.






BackwardsInBoots
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The fact that you have a problem with cadets with CP being able to join the Corps of Cadets tells me all I need to know about you.
2004FIGHTINTXAG
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BackwardsInBoots said:

The fact that you have a problem with cadets with CP being able to join the Corps of Cadets tells me all I need to know about you.

Taking the CP emotional aspect out of it. There are quite a few that have come on this forum saying the Corps needs to be more like the AD military and that it's not a frat. Doesn't allowing those with CP contradict this?
BackwardsInBoots
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2004FIGHTINTXAG said:

BackwardsInBoots said:

The fact that you have a problem with cadets with CP being able to join the Corps of Cadets tells me all I need to know about you.

Taking the CP emotional aspect out of it. There are quite a few that have come on this forum saying the Corps needs to be more like the AD military and that it's not a frat. Doesn't allowing those with CP contradict this?


Why allow anyone who isn't pursuing a military contract in that case?
Rabid Cougar
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Wildman15 said:

ABATTBQ87 said:

CT'97 said:

74OA said:

Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.
I agree, it's the Corps of Cadets not a fraternity house.


I wonder how many Cadets are actually in fraternities
Probably more than you would think, but the number isn't terrible huge. A popular organization that cadets apply for outside of the Quad is Ol' Army gentlemen's society.
Ol'Ags isn't a fraternity by any means.
2004FIGHTINTXAG
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BackwardsInBoots said:

2004FIGHTINTXAG said:

BackwardsInBoots said:

The fact that you have a problem with cadets with CP being able to join the Corps of Cadets tells me all I need to know about you.

Taking the CP emotional aspect out of it. There are quite a few that have come on this forum saying the Corps needs to be more like the AD military and that it's not a frat. Doesn't allowing those with CP contradict this?


Why allow anyone who isn't pursuing a military contract in that case?

Because we're not a Service Academy.
HollywoodBQ
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I feel dumber for having read this thread.

The aerosol bit reminds me, we had a buddy (who is now a public figure) who was fanatical about bad smells.

He would keep a few cans of aerosol air freshener on hand. Any time anybody in his room would break wind, he would get his can of air freshener and spray it all over the place. Especially on the guy who farted.

I didn't realise I was being subjected to buddy hazing at the time.
Trinity Ag
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dp
Trinity Ag
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Trinity Ag said:

OldArmyNeverDiesAnon said:

Quote:

The Corps is on pace to commission the most officers since 1980. Army alone will produce 105+.

For Cadet Command, GPA is the single most important factor in branch accessions. Across Cadet Command, 3.25 is considered the "median" in terms of accession points. PT is also very important, along with Camp performance.

A focus on academics is important for those Cadets seeking to commission in the most competitive branches.

To be guaranteed a spot in the Infantry -- the most selective branch -- a Cadet needs (approximately):

3.5 GPA (3.1 if you are a STEM major)
290-300 PT Score
Outstanding or Excellent rating at Camp
Finish Top 20% in the campus Order of Merit list.

Much lower than that and you need to commit to an additional 4-year active duty service obligation (8 total active duty) to have a chance. And even then it is "needs of the Army".

Medical Service Corps, Aviation, Armor, Engineers, and MI are slightly less competitive, in that order. But not much less.

I can't speak to what standards for PT, HT/WT looked like in the 90s, but the idea that standards are "low" now is false. At least among contracted/seeking Cadets. And I believe there are 2-3x more contracted cadets now than there were in the early 90s.

Infantry is not the most selective branch now. The accessions model has been changed drastically in just the last two years and GPA isn't as nearly as important. Standards of training are lower is what I believe he's saying. And they are. There's a reason that, for the last two years running, Texas A&M University Cadets have performed *below* the national average at Camp. Unless you are a member of Rudder's Rangers or Ranger Challenge, you are at a huge disadvantage.

This is incorrect. GPA is the single most important component of accessions. Period. That isn't opinion, it is a mathematical fact. Two out of the past three years, Infantry was the most selective branch. MS was last year by a small margin, in pert because it is very small in comparison. Which will be most competitive for 2019 is anyone's guess. But It is fair to say that year in & out, Infantry is the baseline.

A&M Cadets "over perform" in the top 10% of camp, and also in the bottom 10%. MSIIIs slightly over perform the Cadet Command average. MSIVs who attend late underperform, in part because the majority of them are coming up from Navy or Air Force, and are behind their peers in foundational military skills (basic tactics, land nav, etc.). There are a lot of other reasons why that are worthy of their own thread:

- Some Aggies treat their peers like fish when placed in leadership positions -- screaming and yelling -- and Cadets from other schools resent it -- maybe ingraining that model in young leaders is not a great idea?
- Some Aggies are arrogant, and denigrate the experience of Cadets from smaller programs
- Some Aggies over-estimate their competence, and don't put the effort into preparation
- Some Cadre from other schools downgrade SMC Cadets, as they believe they get Active Duty anyway, and therefor don't "need" a high camp score -- which can help a Cadet from a small school get selected
- Cadre from other schools have high expectations of SMC Cadets, and when they struggle, they are downgraded more severely than their peers.

In the end, like all the senior military colleges, A&M is large enough that the Cadet population roughly resembles a "bell curve", and produces very close to a standard normal deviation of performance.

You are correct that those who choose to put the extra time into Rudders and Ranger Challenge perform better at camp -- anyone who commits more time and effort to their profession will generally over perform. They are a self-selecting population.

If you want to commission 40-50 and cut the rest, you would have a VERY high performing organization. You would also fall short of Army requirements by 50-60 officers.

A lot of young officers think every organization should be the Ranger Regiment, and don't understand why that isn't and can't be the case. That understanding comes with maturity and experience.
Trinity Ag
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OldArmyNeverDiesAnon said:

Although I agree that gross disobedience cannot and should not be tolerated in a military organization, the current state of the Corps holds less value than the average fraternity house. It is an absolute joke. None of my classmates and the majority of Cadets in upper-level ROTC consider the Corps a "military organization." No enforcement of standards. Cadets that fail PT tests allowed to stay in. Female fish threatened to be punished if they request to switch outfits. Cadets in motorized wheelchairs scooting laps around Spence Park and the Rec for "Physical Training." Yes, you read that right; there are multiple Cadets confined to motorized scooters with cerebral palsy.

The number of Cadets in fraternities has drastically increased in the last three years. As of Spring Semester 2018, I would guess it is upwards of 60 cadets. Every semester more and more male cadets in the ROTC programs rush fraternities to try and disassociate themselves with anything Corps related.

Since I am rolling, I am going to hit one more point -- directed at you and your peers.

I assume you are either a rising Senior, or a recently graduated one.

If you are unhappy with how A&M Cadets compete at camp, consider that all it would take for A&M to go from "below average" to "above average" is one high speed Zip to volunteer to be an OTM, and to personally mentor and motivate three well-intentioned but struggling MSIIIs to improve from bottom quarter to top half.

That's it. If five of the 80-90 Seniors did that, A&M would be the highest performing large program in Cadet Command.

There are some guys who do that -- you know who they are. The RR and RC commanders, some Warbat staff, etc. Some guys may try, but the Jrs don't listen, because they still resent the hell of the folks that treated them like dog crap when they were fish.

One issue is that too many Seniors finish camp, and then tap out halfway through the first semester because they want to "enjoy their Sr years", pledge Tri-Lam, focus on RVs, PMC, or live off-campus with their significant other. Or whatever.

Why do you end up with issues like D-1? Because leaders are either complicit, or so detached that they don't know that their subordinates are running around off-campus acting in willful violation of known standards, University policy, State law, and the UCMJ.

Instead of personally ensuring standards are met, white belts let immature Sophomores go unsupervised, "training" the fish in the same abusive, unproductive techniques that cause them to get peered at Advance Camp three summer later.

You want a Cadet run Corps? Then Seniors need to own it, instead of blaming the "state of the Corps" on the Commandant's decision to let two young Aggies with CP live out a "make a wish" type experience and be a part of an organization they grew up idolizing.

If Cadets can't get high performance out of subordinates without hazing them, they have zero business in military service, period. And if you don't understand the difference between tough training and hazing, then ask a Cadre member -- and they will help you out.

A good starting point is: if you are standing up with your hands on your hips, and yelling at people who are doing pushups, you are probably doing it wrong.

"Cutting the dead wood" is the easy button. Sometimes it is necessary. But leadership means taking weak young adults and making them better people -- and from what I understand, that is the purpose of the Corps.

It is not a "fraternity" that takes a bunch of pledges, and hazes out the unwanted -- leaving behind a small cohort of like-minded people. If Corps members are seeking out fraternities because they think the Corps is too inclusive, then maybe the problem is with Cadets that don't actually embrace or understand the mission.
AGGies0311
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Good!

Im glad spider d is gone.

I hope rangee is in the trash. They lived above PMC my fish year and those guys were disgusting. The only thing good I got from that outfit was knowing Zac Cook.
Snooter
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WestTexAg12 said:

74OA said:

Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.


Then we should kick out fat asses and the disabled who can't PT, if it's a "military organization".


So we're clear here. The Corps is NOT a military organization. It is a STUDENT organization. The military organization are the ROTC programs across the street. A student organization can not discriminate, the military organization can.
BoerneGator
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Snooter said:

WestTexAg12 said:

74OA said:

Setting aside opinions on what constitutes hazing or whatever the offense was, surely we can agree that gross disobedience cannot be tolerated in a military organization. If company upperclassmen corporately flouted Corps regulations, then drastic measures were necessary. Obey or go away.


Then we should kick out fat asses and the disabled who can't PT, if it's a "military organization".


So we're clear here. The Corps is NOT a military organization. It is a STUDENT organization. The military organization are the ROTC programs across the street. A student organization can not discriminate, the military organization can.
Don't think you are all that "clear" in your "understanding" of the terms. They are NOT mutually exclusive. IOWs, the Corps is BOTH a student and military organization. So, it's a military organization for (some) students.

The Corps is a (24/7) modification of the "normal" ROTC program found elsewhere that is just one day per week.
Hhilton82
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Sorry to interrupt discussions of old times...I received this text from my bro last night.
My dad '52 created the art work for Spider D in '50.
Thought you guys might enjoy. I was a non-reg (Northside, not a damn frat rat) so I am not 100% sure this relates but I hope it does.
My old man loved TAMU. Looking for 5th gen Ag soon.
Hhilton82
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https://imgur.com/a/c8gGxxV
Whatthefunyo
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AGGies0311 said:

Good!

Im glad spider d is gone.

I hope rangee is in the trash. They lived above PMC my fish year and those guys were disgusting. The only thing good I got from that outfit was knowing Zac Cook.


You sound limp.
 
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