They Key To Great Italian Meat (Red) Sauce

8,869 Views | 29 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Gilligan
Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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My spaghetti sauce is ok. It'not great, its not terrible its is just the quintessential mediocre. I can never get it to have the "punch" red sauces have in some restaurants and I can never figure out why.

What do you guys think is the key or are the keys to getting a good red sauce made at home? My main components are san marzanos, garlic, basil, salt, pepper, and onions. What am I missing? What do you guys do?
Bruce Almighty
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This sauce is pretty damn awesome.

Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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Bruce Almighty said:

This sauce is pretty damn awesome.


it was a very good system
Matsui
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i like to add mushrooms
William Larue Weller
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Brown minced garlic in olive oil in a sauce pot. Blend whole peeled tomatoes with fresh basil and oregano and then add to the browned garlic/oil in the pot. Add a tablespoon of salt. Add grated romano cheese and crushed red pepper flakes to taste. Simmer on low, stirring regularly for about an hour. Enjoy.
Widgetlover
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I also deglaze the garlic with a big glug of full bodied red wine. Don't know if that does anything but I've always done it that way.
William Larue Weller
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Widgetlover said:

I also deglaze the garlic with a big glug of full bodied red wine. Don't know if that does anything but I've always done it that way.
I've definitely heard of it being done that way, it's probably great. I just stick to the way my great-grandmother made it and don't vary too much.
Max Power
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My wife doesn't have a recipe, she just works some kind of magic with ground beef, sausage, tomatoes, tomato paste, olive oil, garlic, red wine, italian seasoning, and red pepper. I wish I knew what she did but I do the same thing with a couple of recipes where I just mess with my ingredients and keep tasting until it's right. I do know the difference between hers and my MIL's is that my wife uses red wine and red pepper, which my MIL has never done, and why my wife's sauce is better, that might be what you're missing.
FIDO*98*
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You asked about meat sauce then you posted a recipe with no meat? What kind of meat are you using?

I'm guessing you're really just talking about an easy weeknight dinner in which marinara is dumped on ground meat. If that's the case, I'd make sure to use 50/50 ground beef and Italian Sausage. 2lbs is standard for a 28oz can of tomatoes. I prefer sweet Italian Sausage and add chile flakes for heat separately. Brown the meat in a stainless or enameled cast iron pot and deglaze with water 3-4 times before finally deglazing with red wine. This is the step that I observe people cooking at home screw up most often. Most folks just cook the meat until gray, drain, and immediately add the marinara. You want the meat browned to develop flavor. The marinara part of your recipe is solid assuming you use fresh basil and not dried basil. You may want to add in tomato paste as well as a splash of fish sauce as well

A traditional Bolognese is going to have Beef, Pork, and Chicken liver and is not heavy on tomatoes. A Sunday Sugo is like the Goodfellas sauce above and far more American than Italian. Much better sauces but those are going to be a bigger time commitment
Rattler12
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You should open a restaurant
ATM9000
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Lot of focus on ingredients in this thread which is fine… but everybody has a different flavor pallet and you can find your own mix that works. For instance, for veg, I always like onion carrot for sure and hopefully a bulb of fennel as a base.

The thing not being talked about is how are you cutting your ingredients? Having the veg and meat extremely fine and laced into the sauce is as important as the ingredients in a good meat sauce. It ensures you get sweet savory meaty blend in every bite.
DiskoTroop
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Largely speaking, you're probably not cooking it long enough. Try cooking it for several hours, adding a little water or stock about half way through to thin it, then let that cook out a bit more. Let those flavors develop. Restaurant sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Grandma grade sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Cook longer. Ensure you have enough salt. Add a -little- veg to give it dimension. Oh can cook longer.

My $0.02
Agasaurus Tex
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If a longer cook is desirable would a crockpot be a good idea or not?
Chipotlemonger
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Agasaurus Tex said:

If a longer cook is desirable would a crockpot be a good idea or not?
Not enough direct heat to get it all started IMO. You have to layer the flavors in, can't just throw it all together and set it and forget it. Layer it in then set it and mostly forget it.

Starting off with a base of onions in olive oil followed by garlic for a bit is such a nice start. Higher heat to sautee the veggies and bring in a little flavor with some pepper flakes, etc., then layer in the base of tomatoes.
FancyKetchup14
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FancyKetchup14's red sauce aka Neapolitan ragu.

Equal parts ground beef (sometimes veal if I was under the influence at the supermarket) and mild Italian sausage. As someone mentioned earlier, two pounds is a good call for a 28oz can of tomatoes.

I get my Dutch oven ripping hot and brown the meat in the pot. Then I remove the protein and saute onions (one medium-sized), and celery and carrot (two each) in a mixture of leftover animal fat and some olive oil. The vegetables of which have been diced to a medium-fine consistency on the spectrum of chopping sizes. If I'm lazy, I'll go more coarse for a "rustic" style sauce. Important note: as I add in vegetables, I'm adding salt.

Once the veg are all sauteed and soft, I add in the garlic and pepper flake until the garlic is fragrant but not burnt. And then deglaze the bottom of the pot with a bit of full-bodied red. Once the alcohol is cooked off, I add back in the meat, along with the can of san marzano tomatoes and a bit of added water. Lastly, I will add a sprig of thyme and basil, and a parmesan cheese rind.

I'll either let the sauce cook on the stove or in the oven at for a few hours. It should be at a low simmer. Once done, I remove the herbs and the rind, and lastly, taste for salt.

As the pasta is cooking just shy of al dente in salted boiling water, I take a serving of sauce and add it to a saute pan with some olive oil. I finish the pasta in the pan with the sauce and top it with pecorino or parm, whatever I'm feeling.

Try adding a cheese rind to your sauce or upping the salt. And maybe finishing the sauce/pasta with some good olive oil as you cook them together.

BurnetAggie99
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The only way to go is make Sunday Gravy with meatballs

https://www.gonnawantseconds.com/italian-sunday-gravy-recipe/
dmart90
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

My spaghetti sauce is ok. It'not great, its not terrible its is just the quintessential mediocre. I can never get it to have the "punch" red sauces have in some restaurants and I can never figure out why.

What do you guys think is the key or are the keys to getting a good red sauce made at home? My main components are san marzanos, garlic, basil, salt, pepper, and onions. What am I missing? What do you guys do?
You are missing Oregano. And some red pepper flakes to give it a little kick.
BurnetAggie99
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B-1 83
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Just saw this thread, and only one person specifically mentioned this:

Quote:

can of san marzano tomatoes
That makes a world of difference. I love Italian red sauces, and this upped my game considerably.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Buzzy
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FIDO*98* said:

You asked about meat sauce then you posted a recipe with no meat? What kind of meat are you using?

I'm guessing you're really just talking about an easy weeknight dinner in which marinara is dumped on ground meat. If that's the case, I'd make sure to use 50/50 ground beef and Italian Sausage. 2lbs is standard for a 28oz can of tomatoes. I prefer sweet Italian Sausage and add chile flakes for heat separately. Brown the meat in a stainless or enameled cast iron pot and deglaze with water 3-4 times before finally deglazing with red wine. This is the step that I observe people cooking at home screw up most often. Most folks just cook the meat until gray, drain, and immediately add the marinara. You want the meat browned to develop flavor. The marinara part of your recipe is solid assuming you use fresh basil and not dried basil. You may want to add in tomato paste as well as a splash of fish sauce as well

A traditional Bolognese is going to have Beef, Pork, and Chicken liver and is not heavy on tomatoes. A Sunday Sugo is like the Goodfellas sauce above and far more American than Italian. Much better sauces but those are going to be a bigger time commitment
Wrong.
Wild West Pimp Style
AggieOO
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Hate to tell you, but fido is never wrong. Just ask him.
DiskoTroop
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Truth
Rattler12
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AggieOO said:

Hate to tell you, but fido is never wrong. Just ask him.
I hear he thought he was wrong once.....but it turned out he was mistaken.
Gilligan
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DiskoTroop said:

Largely speaking, you're probably not cooking it long enough. Try cooking it for several hours, adding a little water or stock about half way through to thin it, then let that cook out a bit more. Let those flavors develop. Restaurant sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Grandma grade sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Cook longer. Ensure you have enough salt. Add a -little- veg to give it dimension. Oh can cook longer.

My $0.02


Cold rainy weekend days are when I break out Mom's electric skillet and cook marinara all day from scratch. Clean the house, etc while cooking. House smells awesome and then I jar and freeze it.
Buzzy
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Gilligan said:

DiskoTroop said:

Largely speaking, you're probably not cooking it long enough. Try cooking it for several hours, adding a little water or stock about half way through to thin it, then let that cook out a bit more. Let those flavors develop. Restaurant sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Grandma grade sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Cook longer. Ensure you have enough salt. Add a -little- veg to give it dimension. Oh can cook longer.

My $0.02


Cold rainy weekend days are when I break out Mom's electric skillet and cook marinara all day from scratch. Clean the house, etc while cooking. House smells awesome and then I jar and freeze it.
A skillet? Are you cooking down tomatoes?
Wild West Pimp Style
B-1 83
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Buzzy said:

Gilligan said:

DiskoTroop said:

Largely speaking, you're probably not cooking it long enough. Try cooking it for several hours, adding a little water or stock about half way through to thin it, then let that cook out a bit more. Let those flavors develop. Restaurant sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Grandma grade sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Cook longer. Ensure you have enough salt. Add a -little- veg to give it dimension. Oh can cook longer.

My $0.02


Cold rainy weekend days are when I break out Mom's electric skillet and cook marinara all day from scratch. Clean the house, etc while cooking. House smells awesome and then I jar and freeze it.
A skillet? Are you cooking down tomatoes?
No, he's dead on.
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015987-classic-marinara-sauce?ds_c=71700000052595478&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dJ7YxPzpY8lqS2vAa-yf3rsR2FHO-SN3CFlYMzshG420BeIAMJNd0RoCXfIQAvD_BwE
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
Buzzy
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B-1 83 said:

Buzzy said:

Gilligan said:

DiskoTroop said:

Largely speaking, you're probably not cooking it long enough. Try cooking it for several hours, adding a little water or stock about half way through to thin it, then let that cook out a bit more. Let those flavors develop. Restaurant sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Grandma grade sauces are commonly cooked on low heat all day.

Cook longer. Ensure you have enough salt. Add a -little- veg to give it dimension. Oh can cook longer.

My $0.02


Cold rainy weekend days are when I break out Mom's electric skillet and cook marinara all day from scratch. Clean the house, etc while cooking. House smells awesome and then I jar and freeze it.
A skillet? Are you cooking down tomatoes?
No, he's dead on.
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1015987-classic-marinara-sauce?ds_c=71700000052595478&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwrpOiBhBVEiwA_473dJ7YxPzpY8lqS2vAa-yf3rsR2FHO-SN3CFlYMzshG420BeIAMJNd0RoCXfIQAvD_BwE
Unless I'm reading that recipe wrong, that is a 15 minute sauce, a very basic marinara. He's talking about an all-day cook, something completely different. I have one of Lidia's books but I don't know what her issue is with using a pot instead of a skillet for a basic sauce. You can make a basic marinara in a small frying pan.
Wild West Pimp Style
B-1 83
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I got the idea he did multiple batches.
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Gilligan
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Yes, multiple batches, but I do cook mine for a good while. It's how Mom did it.

Also, it's an electric skillet. It's large, deep with the big plug in the front and a large dial for the temperature setting. It's old as heck and still works great!
Gilligan
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