Manny can turn into an NBa player every six games but he's a black hole with the ball and really has been bad since Ole Miss game. I wouldn't play Wilcher a ton if he's off but let's let this man cook a little.
I'd start Wilcher
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Last: 9 hrs ago by Jorf
I think I'd start Garcia at the 3
bobinator said:
I think I'd start Garcia at the 3
Not a huge Manny fan myself as a 2 guard should at least know how to pass. Or be willing to.
I bet Buzz starts Garcia for tourney if not just before.
Feels like once we replaced Hefner in the starting lineup with Manny we've started REALLY poorly in games. I'd try Wilcher or Hefner and just keep the ball in Wade and Phelps hands and get it to Payne down low.
Manny just grinds things to a halt.
Manny just grinds things to a halt.
The reason I'd start Garcia is you gives you more flexibility with when and who to bring in Manny/Wilcher/Hefner and Solo for. Garcia can do anything Hefner can do.
If not Garcia I'd start Solo there.
If not Garcia I'd start Solo there.
Wilcher has progressed as the season has gone on, but he is still a major liability on defense. Much prefer him coming off the bench to give us a spark.
Agree on starting Andy or Solo ahead of him.
Agree on starting Andy or Solo ahead of him.
bobinator said:
I think I'd start Garcia at the 3
That would be fine too but he's been good off the bench overall.
cutter said:
Wilcher has progressed as the season has gone on, but he is still a major liability on defense. Much prefer him coming off the bench to give us a spark.
Agree on starting Andy or Solo ahead of him.
That's fair. Split them up. Whatever Manny is an eight minute a game player and when he doesn't have it he really sinks the whole team.
To be honest I basically wouldn't play Manny until I had to but that's not gonna happen
I'm at a loss as to why he is ever allowed to bring the ball up. Sorry I know that because we were a projected two seed in February we can't criticize Buzz, but he's not a PG and he destroys the offense.
He dribbles with uncommon conviction in his soul.
The scouting report on Manny is pretty simple, He's not going to pass and he's going to dribble on the perimeter for 10-15 seconds then he'll try to drive it into the lane. He needs to be a spark player off the bench, a role he's more comfortable in anyway.
I thought we learned at the end of last year to not let him be a PG. When he went off at the end of last year, we had him off the ball for the most part.
I can't figure out how the staff continues to have him being a primary ball handler. Excluding guys on the end of the bench, his OBPM is the worst on the team by A LOT.
I can't figure out how the staff continues to have him being a primary ball handler. Excluding guys on the end of the bench, his OBPM is the worst on the team by A LOT.
Oh and while Hefner was playing solid defense most of the season he's been BBQ chicken the last few games.
Method Man said:
I'm at a loss as to why he is ever allowed to bring the ball up. Sorry I know that because we were a projected two seed in February we can't criticize Buzz, but he's not a PG and he destroys the offense.
There were a couple times tonight when Manny was in the game with Wade. And Manny still brought the ball up the court with Wade basically on the wing with his arms outstretched waiting for the ball. It was very awkward.
This entire discussion is happening because Wade has been so inconsistent. Such a shame. We can move every chess piece around but if our queen performs like a king then we're screwed
Wade is a shooter, shooters are inconsistent. Also Phelps was even worse than Wade tonight. 7 turnovers is probably some kind of record.
We're not going to beat anyone when they're both that bad. But just one game. Almost glad we finally played a truly bad game, we had one coming and better this one than any of the ones left.
We're not going to beat anyone when they're both that bad. But just one game. Almost glad we finally played a truly bad game, we had one coming and better this one than any of the ones left.
bobinator said:
Garcia can do anything Hefner can do.
While the better overall player, i do not believe that Garcia can shoot threes and make them as well as Hefner.
He's definitely can, but he's not as aggressive at pulling the trigger as Hefner is. Garcias unwillingness to score the basketball at times is actually a problem. He's way too unselfish.
bobinator said:
We're not going to beat anyone when they're both that bad. But just one game. Almost glad we finally played a truly bad game, we had one coming and better this one than any of the ones left.
I've thought about this too and I agree. Like tu, another reality check. Problem is, I still haven't seen old Wade. Something is up with him and that concerns me.
bobinator said:
He's definitely can, but he's not as aggressive at pulling the trigger as Hefner is. Garcias unwillingness to score the basketball at times is actually a problem. He's way too unselfish.
I love Andy, but the game has been over for 2 hours and Andy just gave another a head fake 2 minutes ago.
And even more amazingly he still got his defender to leave his feet
Unfortunately, MO thinks that every time he's passed the ball he's supposed to drive one on one……until he loses possession…..
Manny is an absolute enigma, so frustrating, So much talent but just can't put it together consistently. I thought he was gonna play this year like he ended last year but he was pretty bad tonight.
I'm not gonna write him off because he's risen from the dead several times when we thought he was done.
Hopefully he's saving it for the ncaa tournament.
I'm not gonna write him off because he's risen from the dead several times when we thought he was done.
Hopefully he's saving it for the ncaa tournament.
Redfishag93 said:
Manny is an absolute enigma, so frustrating, So much talent but just can't put it together consistently. I thought he was gonna play this year like he ended last year but he was pretty bad tonight.
I'm not gonna write him off because he's risen from the dead several times when we thought he was done.
Hopefully he's saving it for the ncaa tournament.
Oh there is a fair chance he has a 23 point game in the tourney
I just think people have figured him out, including the officials. He also still doesn't have quite the same first step he used to so he can't create any space off the bounce. But he had to shoot well to be effective.
He also makes some passes that might be brilliant if they worked but they almost never work. Our post guys aren't exactly basketball savants, just make the easy pass.
He also makes some passes that might be brilliant if they worked but they almost never work. Our post guys aren't exactly basketball savants, just make the easy pass.
Manny hef and Carter are huge liabilities. We have lots of versatile players, find ways to keep them off the floor. Especially together.
And Manny is a horrible passer and average dribbler. Why in the world play him at point?
And Manny is a horrible passer and average dribbler. Why in the world play him at point?
This. Phelps has been extremely lazy lately on both ends. His lack of defensive effort gets us out of position on so many possessions.bobinator said:
Wade is a shooter, shooters are inconsistent. Also Phelps was even worse than Wade tonight. 7 turnovers is probably some kind of record.
We're not going to beat anyone when they're both that bad. But just one game. Almost glad we finally played a truly bad game, we had one coming and better this one than any of the ones left.
bobinator said:
Wade is a shooter, shooters are inconsistent. Also Phelps was even worse than Wade tonight. 7 turnovers is probably some kind of record.
We're not going to beat anyone when they're both that bad. But just one game. Almost glad we finally played a truly bad game, we had one coming and better this one than any of the ones left.
Agree. I mentioned this on another thread. This is The Worst game we've played All season. Everything from tonight, for the most part, is fixable. Better to lose Like This in February than anytime in March.
bobinator said:
Wade is a shooter, shooters are inconsistent. Also Phelps was even worse than Wade tonight. 7 turnovers is probably some kind of record.
We're not going to beat anyone when they're both that bad. But just one game. Almost glad we finally played a truly bad game, we had one coming and better this one than any of the ones left.
Don't agree that Wade is a shooter. He's a career .370 FG / .329 3PT. He's a volume scorer, over 30% usage for his career. It's not necessarily bad that he's a volume scorer since ORebs are part of the offense and there are rarely any other options, but I don't think it's accurate to call him a shooter
The big problem is that his efficiency is way down this this year. Nobody expects him to be prime Kawhi, but 25th percentile is pretty rough at 30% usage
ETA: Wade's free throw rate is down from his sophomore year, but it's nearly identical to last year. So, he's still getting to the line at the same clip, which is keeping his True Shooting Percentage afloat.
I cringe every time manny has the ball because it usually results in a turnover or him dribbling the entire time and then taking a bad shot
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cutter said:
Wilcher has progressed as the season has gone on, but he is still a major liability on defense. Much prefer him coming off the bench to give us a spark.
Agree on starting Andy or Solo ahead of him.
this is my feeling as well. i like witcher in the vinny microwave johnson role, for some of us olds. . come off the bench and be a spark. his defense is suspect but if he is hot he can make multiple threes in a row.
I should have clarified a bit probably. I don't mean he's a particularly good shooter. He's not bad, but he's not elite at it or anything, but what I meant is that his whole game now is shooting based.
We don't need to re-litigate why he's less effective attacking the basket this year, but he is. His 2pt percentages aren't that much worse than the other years, but his attempts are way down. He's now much more dependent on whether or not his threes are falling than he used to be, which is going to naturally make him more inconsistent.
But with him and Phelps the big thing is the same it's been all year, they're too loose with the ball sometimes for no reason. Both of them are volume players, which like you said is fine in our system, probably even somewhat on purpose, but you can't do that AND give the ball away.
Between the two of them we had ten turnovers last night, just awful. But again, one game, they're going to bounce back.
We don't need to re-litigate why he's less effective attacking the basket this year, but he is. His 2pt percentages aren't that much worse than the other years, but his attempts are way down. He's now much more dependent on whether or not his threes are falling than he used to be, which is going to naturally make him more inconsistent.
But with him and Phelps the big thing is the same it's been all year, they're too loose with the ball sometimes for no reason. Both of them are volume players, which like you said is fine in our system, probably even somewhat on purpose, but you can't do that AND give the ball away.
Between the two of them we had ten turnovers last night, just awful. But again, one game, they're going to bounce back.
Wilcher seems lost so often on defense. He also is so slow and not good at getting open. He doesn't need much space to get a shot off, but he does a really poor job of getting open. But I like he got more minutes than Jace last night.
Yeah we can probably cover it if you're either bad at man-to-man defending or often out of position but not both.
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