Another game where we get very little out of this trio. Fede is still playing some bad basketball. Vinson shows flashes and has the more upside of these 3 but he doesn't consistent commit himself to matching the physicality of these SEC bigs. Clemence was all over the place tonight with more bad than good.

This is still the biggest concern personnel wise for this team. The production we get out of these 3 going forward will determine our ceiling as a team.

Agee is all alone down there right now and that can't be the case for too much longer.

Loved the fight tonight despite me thinking we would've had no business being in this thing the whole way. I'm really bought in and already want to watch more Bucky ball in about 20 minutes. Very exciting and entertaining stuff. Had a nice gameplan and just some rough execution down the stretch to truly seal the deal. We'll be fine.

If Clemence had played zero defense we would've won. Two and ones and didn't affect either shot.

So that seems like a pick your poison scenario, Federiko mostly useless on the offensive end and not catastrophically bad on the defensive end , or Vinson serviceable on the offensive end and mostly lost on defense .

Method Man said:

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If Clemence had played zero defense we would've won. Two and ones and didn't affect either shot.

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bobinator said:

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For a football analogy, Clemence is like a Jaxson Appel. He's not good, but he's always close to the play and a step late so it's very obvious when something is his fault. Federiko is like a corner who isn't good enough to really cover and has to play off 10 yards, but that keeps his guy from making any big plays. He's not good, but he's not catastrophically bad.

Vinson is like a corner who doesn't know what defense we're running and he's so far out of the play that you don't even realize it's his fault that the play happened.

I posted this on premium yesterday to a similar thought about Vinson, but he's been absolutely brutal on the court. In our games against major conference teams, he's played a total of 36 minutes and has a grand total of six rebounds, which is even worse than it sounds because 5 of those 6 were against Florida State.

Good news for Vinson is he still has two years of college ball to improve unlike the other two and he does have some skills you can't teach, if he could get in the fight a little more he's got potential down the road.

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This is hilarious. The question becomes; does he even realize when it's his fault?

Calling Vinson "serviceable" on the offensive end is being pretty generous too. Federiko is probably a slightly better screener, Vinson is maybe a little better around the basket. Neither are any good on that end.

The way Tennessee was defending us was just screaming for ANY kind of lob threat but we don't really have one.

In terms of points scored per
Mins played Vinson is over double Federiko. He's out scoring him by over a ppg in approx 5 mpg less playing time.

He's also rebounding at a 30% higher clip per
Min played than Federiko.

Slightly better statistically in blocked shots, fg% , and ft % as well.

I'm not suggesting Vinson is a better defender , he isn't at this point. I do believe he's more of an offensive threat tho.

Problem is Vinson had some decent games against absolutely worthless teams that complicates the data. He's made 27 shots on the season but all but four of them were against Jacksonville, MSVSt, Montana, Manhattan, ETAM or PV.

Against good teams neither of them has really done anything so it's hard to compare data. Either one of them getting lucky and making two buckets would surge their data ahead of the other one.

In our 7 games against top 100 teams, Vinson is 2/4 from the floor and Federiko is 4/12, in those games Federiko has an Orating of 102 and Vinson is 71.9, . So like I said, Vinson is better around the basket, but I still think calling him "serviceable" on offense is a stretch. Neither one of them are giving us anything on the offensive end.

So I agree Vinson is more of an offensive threat but in the "tallest midget" sense that neither of them are really offensive threats at all.

That's fair but they have played against the same exact teams, probably not against the same combination of players tho. Who plays when is obviously situational and of course Bucky agrees that Federiko deserves more mins . Both of them are going to have to play quite a few mins against tu imo. More than the combined 18.8 mpg they have averaged season to date I think unless we can get tu's 7 footer in foul trouble early.

Desperately need these guys to become legit contributors.
Agee can't shoulder the load on his own this way thru a full SEC season.

The worst part abt federiko offensively imo is how when he touches the ball on the perimeter his defender can just sag way off and clog the lane, hasn't been as much of a problem the last couple games but in that respect he's hurting the offense in a way Vinson doesn't

They can sag off Vinson too. I know he's hit a three but it's not like anyone is going to guard him out there.

TxAg76 said:

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Desperately need these guys to become legit contributors.
Agee can't shoulder the load on his own this way thru a full SEC season.

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Two of them have been in college basketball for four years. They kind of are who they are. Vinson the only one with any real upward mobility.

Vinson having 2 years and upside is good news bad news. If he's not playing here does he leave since everyone is a free agent?

TheDecadeSapling said:

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I think there's a serious basketball IQ gap between Agee and the other three.

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This is saying something, because I don't think Agee is a basketball genius.

I guess I'm more commenting on the absurdity of college sports now.

This is a system the guards have not learned enough yet to involve the Bigs more offensively in the half court. Give them a little more time. Mostly guards initiate this offense and frontcourt players may not have scoring opportunities unless entry passes are delivered to the post or they are in scoring position on the roll, or in transition on the break. Yes, somehow Clemence has many more shot attempts, often unable to convert open lay-ups near the cup, shooting 41%. Usually, short roll attacks result in good production offensively for Bigs, and the guards have not consistently delivered the ball to them in these situations, it will happen. Running pick-and-rolls to get Bigs easy finishes has occurred mostly with Agee who plays significant minutes and passes often come from Hill who is a former teammate. Holloway, Isaacs, and Clemence passed to Vinson this season as a lob and short roll threat, but we haven't seen it in a while as guards look to find more shots on the perimeter. Federiko receives the ball some in those situations but passes back out to the perimeter instead of looking to score. The guards are getting better at it, especially Lane and Isaacs, making passes to the front court when they see the mismatch or a passing lane on the roll. If we're looking for more offensive frontcourt production other than putbacks, the guards will have to break down the defense and find them in scoring position.

Isaacs is especially getting good at this. To the point that some of our other players need to start looking for the ball when they're flashing to the basket. He almost hit someone, I think Griffen, in the face with a pass last game that should have been an easy layup but the other guy wasn't even looking for it.

Federiko clearly didn't respond to the call out but Vinson did.

Our weak link is having a competent #2 big man. It's imperative if we want to go to the dance and win a game.

aggie-1997 said:

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TheDecadeSapling said:

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I think there's a serious basketball IQ gap between Agee and the other three.

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This is saying something, because I don't think Agee is a basketball genius.

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He may have had some dumb fouls, etc in games... But he is very smart basketball-wise to be productive as he is being undersized. He knows how to find his spots on the court and get to the rim while bigger guys are guarding him.

Method Man said:

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Remember when Buzz started Leveque?

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lol. Buzz's talent evaluation skills are extremely questionable.

Kind of like how (for several years) BK didn't know how to recruit a serviceable pg and so he went to the bench to play a walk-on at point a bunch minutes. Mind boggling.

Bucky is not like those guys. Appears to know talent and is not content with his roster in the off-season... always looking to upgrade/build quality depth.