Runner on first. Right handed pitcher. Are you allowed to lift your knee in a pitching motion, without moving toward home and fake like you're going to third only to then turn and try and throw the guy out stealing second from first?

We're trying to figure out ways from just giving up second base as it's nearly impossible to throw them out from the catching position. The runners are just going when our pitcher lifts his leg to go home but they're not even waiting to see if he goes towards home or not and we figured we might be able to take advantage of this. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Have you tried teaching them to slidestep? If first base is the only occupied base, the RHP must throw home after lifting his front leg. Part of being an effective RHP is having a timely delivery to the plate. When stealing off a righty, the runner only needs to see the pitcher lift his front leg to start his motion. Off a lefty, you can either go first move and risk a pick off, or wait until the pitcher commits to home.

really depends on the rule set. In NFHS rules a move to an unoccupied base in an attempt to drive back or put out a runner is NOT considered a balk. If the runner was not going to attempting to go it would be. In the description you gave it would NOT be a balk

In LL, runners can't steal or begin to steal until the ball crosses home.

Same issue applies, walk = a double almost always.

I think Hutto meant slide step but point is same.
Also just have them step off to the back of rubber, fake or throw over.

The other is jump throw, likely a challenge at that age but also might get you a couple of outs if done quickly.

12thMan9 said:

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I think Hutto meant slide step but point is same.
Also just have them step off to the back of rubber, fake or throw over.

The other is jump throw, likely a challenge at that age but also might get you a couple of outs if done quickly.

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The kids know how to step off but we wanted to try and catch the runner from 1st going to second. So stepping off will just send them back to 1st until we finally throw home.

I mean, then it's a test of patience for the coaches.

Have the pitcher do it EVERY SINGLE PITCH.

You aren't going to stop the stealing in 9u. The catchers don't have the arm strength yet. By 12u, we are catching 25-50% of the steals from fast kids and the slow ones don't even attempt anymore. Work with them on pick-offs to second. The risk is rather low with center already backing up the play. Get comfortable checking on the runners though you probably aren't going to get but a few over the entire season.

As others have said, throw strikes. Pop up double plays are the only way to penalize them for stealing. If they are smart enough to take on a steal attempt, you get a free strike and are working ahead in the count.

It doesn't matter the level of baseball. Don't walk players and get the outs they give you. At 9u, you should get close to 100% of the balls hit to pitcher, second, or first as outs. Shortstop and third should be working up to 75% plus. The outfield should be learning the game. No one thinks it is important until all of the sudden you wake up in the spring of 11u and they get just as many balls.

You mean they can leave the base before the pitch?

greg.w.h said:

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You mean they can leave the base before the pitch?

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In real baseball, yes.

12thMan9 said:

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greg.w.h said:

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You mean they can leave the base before the pitch?

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In real baseball, yes.

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Yep, first base being a free pass to third base is definitely real baseball.

I would advise finding some left handed pitchers and teach them a good 45 degree angle move and mix in slide stepping and you should negate any deficiencies behind the plate with your catcher.

Also throwing more quality strikes to where you have some pitches to waste on occasional pitchouts can be helpful for the catcher.

Back in the day we threw our RHP's in pool play and saved or four LHP's for bracket day so we didn't miss out on any bracket games by getting knocked out early.

greg.w.h said:

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You mean they can leave the base before the pitch?

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A 2013 9u rule book said:

"Stealing
Free stealing will be allowed, including home plate.
A player must not leave his/her base to steal until the ball crosses the plate. If a runner leaves early, he/she will be called out and the pitch will be a dead ball."

https://nvtbl.org/nvtblhandouts/9U%20Rules%20for%20plate%20conferencev5.pdf

LL Stump Ump said:

"In little league, if a runner leaves the base early, are the umpires supposed to have a flag to drop to signal that runner left to soon?

Yes. When a runner leaves his base in Little League before the ball has reached the batter the umpire should throw the red base runner's violation flag but should not call time until the play is done. If the ball is not hit by the batter and the catcher throws out the base stealer then then base stealer is out. If the base stealer is safe then he will be sent back to the base he occupied before the pitch."

https://www.stumptheump.com/answers/leaving-a-base-early-in-little-league

The question was legitimate and I don't follow either so…at least added content to the thread…

at 9u the object is to develop the fundamentals of baseball and have them enjoy the game. I would not get caught up in the runners taking second and focus on the fundamentals. Too many people focus on winning and losing at those ages and in the development of their baseball lives winning and losing at 9 means nothing.. Absolutely nothing.

So the coach that will bunt every time and get guys on base and steal on pitchers non-stop at 9u are not teaching them the best ways of baseball. They are just coaching to win. Which is easy at this age if you take this approach.

ColoradoMooseHerd said:

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at 9u the object is to develop the fundamentals of baseball and have them enjoy the game. I would not get caught up in the runners taking second and focus on the fundamentals. Too many people focus on winning and losing at those ages and in the development of their baseball lives winning and losing at 9 means nothing.. Absolutely nothing.

So the coach that will bunt every time and get guys on base and steal on pitchers non-stop at 9u are not teaching them the best ways of baseball. They are just coaching to win. Which is easy at this age if you take this approach.

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I've found that you have to mix winning into the development. 9 year olds know if they're on a team that never wins. If we don't steal on the first pitch it puts us in a bad situation.

Which is why I wish they didn't allow lead offs or drop 3rd strikes in 9u. Let the kids learn to pitch for a season and then introduce the rest in 10u. But I digress.

Dumbest rule I have come across is the lead off and stealing at the 9u level. We are now 10u with the same path length and don't like it at that age group either.No way this should be done until the base paths are longer. Not sure what you accomplish by taking lead offs and stealing. Every kid since 1939 up until about 10-15 years ago played Little League rules until 13 and all developed afterwards into baseball players.

a.froman said:

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Dumbest rule I have come across is the lead off and stealing at the 9u level. We are now 10u with the same path length and don't like it at that age group either.No way this should be done until the base paths are longer. Not sure what you accomplish by taking lead offs and stealing. Every kid since 1939 up until about 10-15 years ago played Little League rules until 13 and all developed afterwards into baseball players.

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I disagree. Don't get me wrong, not a big fan but I think the positives outweigh the negatives. It teaches the pitchers to value the strike zone, a walk is essentially a run. Teaches defensive players more awareness...holding runners, backing up pickoffs, throws on steals, more communication, catching mechanics, pitching from the stretch, etc. I've seen first hand 11 year olds come from LL and lack awareness and have concrete feet bc they're used to manning a position with nothing else going on. And the last comment is definitely false, I'm 47 years old and we played open bases at that age.

Maybe so but I guess since I come from a small town all we had was Little League rules. I think at 9 all you want is strikezone awareness. Runners deviate from that. Plus what good is it if a walk becomes a triple. All kids at that age are going to walk a few. I realize that some that havent played by the rules will be a little behind but if they are still talented baseball players they can pick up covering, and alignment very quickly. Having the ability to only throw out less then 5% of baserunners at second isnt even close to actual baseball numbers.

PhatMack19 said:

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As people have stated, it's not legal without a runner at 3rd

In 9u, a walk is a triple. Just accept that and preach throwing strikes. They don't have to get too cute trying to nibble. Just pound the zone. Teams aren't really getting 4 or 5 hits in a row, but walks will really kill you. I would rather give up a triple than a walk. Preach that to your kids and they will be fine. Once they figure out the strike zone, then they can start hitting corners. They learn quick.

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This, this, and this

ColoradoMooseHerd said:

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at 9u the object is to develop the fundamentals of baseball and have them enjoy the game. I would not get caught up in the runners taking second and focus on the fundamentals. Too many people focus on winning and losing at those ages and in the development of their baseball lives winning and losing at 9 means nothing.. Absolutely nothing.

So the coach that will bunt every time and get guys on base and steal on pitchers non-stop at 9u are not teaching them the best ways of baseball. They are just coaching to win. Which is easy at this age if you take this approach.

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This is exactly why I was so pissed at the guy who taught his team to bend every rule last year. Yes, what he had them do was mostly "legal" but it didn't teach anything about baseball.

I haven't had my kids do it yet, but I've toyed with the idea of having the pitcher do an inside move to unoccupied 2B with a runner on 1B who you're certain will steal on the first pitch. You're allowed to throw to an unoccupied base to make a play on a runner, so technically it shouldn't be a balk as long as the runner goes on first movement. But, I'm not confident all umpires would see it that way; it may come down to a chicken-or-egg interpretation.

OnlyForNow said:

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In LL, runners can't steal or begin to steal until the ball crosses home.

Same issue applies, walk = a double almost always.

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Not sure if just a LL rule, but it Texas Teenage, closed base works that way, but once you get to 10U open or 12U and above, that is not correct. They can steel when they want to.