Kyla is Australia and has served as a missionary in China for about 20 years where she works with handicapped children. I've enjoyed reading her posts about how things have been there. This morning she posted some thoughts looking back over the past month or so

I've been reflecting on these times we are in.


Reports of people buying out the groceries and hoarding toilet paper has been a source of humour in the midst of my challenges. Especially when that is not something I've had to deal with, and just watch from afar.

But what is under the panicking and hoarding is that which is the concern. That's the more serious issue.

For the most part people are the same. The world over. We all have similar needs, and psychological responses. We are all selfish.

But the question I've been thinking through is "why no panic buying and hoarding here in China? What is different?"

Maybe it's that people don't have a disposable income to go using this way.

Maybe it's that people don't own cars to carry a stock of stuff home.

Maybe it's that there is less uncontrolled crazy media saying pretty much anything and freaking everyone out.

Maybe it's that people would be shamed with a trolley full of goods, everybody is watching and how you appear in this really matters.

Maybe it's that people know where food comes from, prefer it fresh anyway, and have veggies growing in their plot.

Maybe it's that people have less of a sense of control anyway. So they don't scramble for it as much.

Maybe it's that people are more aware of community, that the individual exists in a context where the suffering of one affects all others. People already know we are all connected.

Maybe it's a combination of these factors. I'm not sure.

What I do know is that in times like these rampant individualism in a culture is dangerous. Because if there is anything you learn from a pandemic it's that we are all connected. Everything each of us does effects everyone else!

Yup! It's not about us!!

It's definitely the social credit system.

One-Eyed Fat Man said:

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What I do know is that in times like these rampant individualism in a culture is dangerous. Because if there is anything you learn from a pandemic it's that we are all connected. Everything each of us does effects everyone else!

Yup! It's not about us!!

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I'd rather deal with the occasional consequences with rampant individualism rather than constant communism. Or confucianism for that matter.

China's communism aside, not sure that caring about each other is a bad thing. Not seeing your correlation between the quote and your comment.

"Maybe it's that people know where food comes from, prefer it fresh anyway, and have veggies growing in their plot"

Maybe it's not the veggies, but the fresh critter that's the real problem.

I'd rather live in a society of individuals that strain to act like a collective, but can when need be, than be a collective where individualism is frowned upon and even punished

Aggie Spirit said:

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"Maybe it's that people know where food comes from, prefer it fresh anyway, and have veggies growing in their plot"

Maybe it's not the veggies, but the fresh critter that's the real problem.

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Yup, it's why we're in this position we are right now. If what she means by fresh, is food contaminated with viruses that start pandemics then I'll take our system. Nice try on the hot take though.

Thanks for sharing that, One-eyed. It's good to get different perspectives.

I agree with Rock1983. Better to live in a place with individual liberty and pull together a la WWII, than to live in a place where the individual is only valued as a part of the whole.

20 years in China will definitely have one believing communism is a good thing

Rugged individualism and concern for your neighbor, and realizing that our actions affect others and living in community are not diametrically opposed.

I can both watch out for myself and my family AND my neighbor and community.

Understanding that we are all in this together does not prevent me from also being a "rugged individualist".

Yeah, **** the chiComs

One-Eyed Fat Man said:

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China's communism aside, not sure that caring about each other is a bad thing. Not seeing your correlation between the quote and your comment.

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The Chinese are known as some of the worst human rights abuses in the world. The word sweatshop originated in China. Their government censors their speech and punishes them for anything that smacks of criticism. They crack down on Muslim minorities in brutal ways. I could go on about their abuses of each other.

There are videos online of Chinese authorities welding apartments shut so people would not leave. Imagine if there were a fire in one of those buildings. Everyone would perish.

Sorry I'm not buying the idea that they care for each other. I mean this whole thing blew up because Chinese authorities hid the truth and punished people that spoke about it. That's pretty f'ing selfish behavior that resulted in massive global suffering.

Honestly TP hoarders are the least of our worries. It's more of a source of humor if anything

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Sorry I'm not buying the idea that they care for each other. I mean this whole thing blew up because Chinese authorities hid the truth and punished people that spoke about it.

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By "care for each other" the meaning is people within communities care for each other. We all know the Commie government doesn't give 2 s*&ts about its citizenry (Especially if you are a Muslim or Tibetan)

One-Eyed Fat Man said:

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Maybe it's that people know where food comes from, prefer it fresh anyway, and have veggies growing in their plot.

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Bioweapon labs?

Spare me this asinine propaganda.

The Chinese will leverage the Wuhan virus to take care of the Uighurs in Xinjiang province. They will use this crisis to increase surveillance of their own population while simultaneously using it to press their claims in the South China Sea.

They've been lucky that we've been too preoccupied with killing terrorists for the last twenty years. However, we're changing that now.

They haven't fought a war since the Vietnamese bloodied their nose in 78.

I look forward to the competition. Bring it.

First off, if she's been around for 20 years in China and is openly posting stuff on facebook the Chinese government knows about her. Period. So take anything she says with a grain of salt. My friends who are in China as missionaries would never post about being in China on social media good or bad, its all through encrypted email chains through vpns if you want any real information.

Secondly, since china's ascent into the world stage the Chinese culture is to screw over their fellow man to get a buck. Atheist, communist control has created disillusionment about moral grounding. The state wouldn't even allow Falun Gong to exist as a pseudo-religion. That is why there are missionaries there in the first place.

Leaving a store shelf full wouldn't be stopped by some collectivist worldview or desire for fresh food. When people are locked into their own homes against their will-there is no kumbiyahs to be found. Governmental control, social credits, and low wages are how the Chinese enforce against hoarding. Can't hoard if you're beaten by plainclothes police, your social score docked, or you don't have any money anyway.

This is how collectivism actually works in a shame/honor society. Someone in a position of power coerces you into cooperation for the 'good of the people.' China is not immune to the tragedy of the commons, shared resources are divvied up as individuals seek to improve their life.

Man, I had no idea that a post about people looking after one another would generate these types of responses.

I have friends who have done time in China for one reason or another. "looking after one another" is not something they have ever used to describe the culture there.

If someone is doing you a favor, you are now "in debt" to them. Everything done for one another is done for a price, and it is expected that you will do what you can to repay the debt.

One-Eyed Fat Man said:

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Man, I had no idea that a post about people looking after one another would generate these types of responses.

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There are a lot of countries you could have picked that are good examples. Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, etc. The Chinese were welding people into their apartments and suppressing the truth, even punishing doctors who were trying to get the word out. Think about that for a minute.

One-Eyed Fat Man said:

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Man, I had no idea that a post about people looking after one another would generate these types of responses.

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This forum has devolved into an extension of the politics forum.

I get that Kyla has a soft heart for the people she works with but I would question why an Australian have to tend to Chinese handicapped children? Is it because the Chinese see them as a burden and cast them aside, not worthy to be part of the social structure? I am sure her view is a bit skewed also because the Christian groups she is working with in China have a very different culture than the mainstream Chinese. Their sacrificial giving is completely foreign to most Chinese who experience life either as a winner take all system or a cog in the benevolent despot's plan. She has probably been mostly in contact with Chinese Christians who take this very seriously:

"And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need." Acts 2:44-45

One-Eyed Fat Man said:

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Man, I had no idea that a post about people looking after one another would generate these types of responses.

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Sorry, but if that was your friend's message she needs someone to proofread her posts, because that is absolutely not what came across. That post was all about comparisons of one culture to another and how some are individualistic and others are superior.

I'd suggest the Chinese government as proofreaders, but they already did that.

I refuse to be counseled by China. It is the Chinese Communist Party's decision to initially conceal the outbreak and then to actively lie about it ever since that allowed a manageable epidemic to turn into a global pandemic.

"In suppressing information about the virus, doing little to contain it, and allowing it to spread unchecked in the crucial early days and weeks, the regime imperiled not only its own country and its own citizens but also the more than 100 nations now facing their own potentially devastating outbreaks."

Trolling