https://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3099779

Small businesses will be permanently out of business because of this. The people that work for them will be unemployed with few options for replacement. This is not fair to them because this is NOT going to kill/maim/injure enough people for us to completely stop all commerce for months on end.

I should be studying 11 said:

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Small businesses will be permanently out of business because of this. The people that work for them will be unemployed with few options for replacement. This is not fair to them because this is NOT going to kill/maim/injure enough people for us to completely stop all commerce for months on end.

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Those that are going out of business will go out if business regardless. Again, the virus is the reason they are going out of business, not government action. Hopefully the stimulus package will help mitigate things. But that's the best we can do.

I'm aware of the economic damage being done. Again the issue is that it is and will be done because of the pandemic - not from "non pharmaceutical intervention".

Gumby said:

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AggieJosh2002 said:

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The_Fox said:

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Federale01 said:

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When we can get adequate testing and resources set up that allow us to deal with this through regular methods of tracking and isolation. We aren't there yet because we diddled around for two months pretending this wasn't going to come here.

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How long?

When do your paychecks stop?

Oh, that is right, you work for the government and are not impacted by this financially no matter how long this goes on.

Until you stop getting paid, your opinion means dick.

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The problem is that you seem to think that "opening the country" gets the economy and jobs going again. Open it up, spread the virus, the healthcare system gets worse, and almost no one will be flying, eating out, going to movies, hiring non-essential workers, buying unnecessary goods/services. In fact there is an argument to be made that not getting the virus under control first could make the economic hardship and long-term job loss much worse. IMO, we should have a hard-core shutdown for a month where no one is allowed out for virtually any reason (i.e. no travel/not going out because you ran out of butter like I see now). Rip the band-aid off and get this over with so we actually get it under control and then we can begin to get more people back to work.

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How would you implement a month long hardcore shutdown? We NEED electricity, water, food, farms, medical supplies, truckers, health care, police, fire, cell phones, internet, etc. There are a lot of people that are required to leave their homes to provide those services. And those essential people need to be able to get things like gas in order to get to their essential jobs. It's just not feasible to force the entire population into their homes for a month.

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Obviously those are the true essentials that should be out ... the half-ass shelter in place we have done is just prolonging this... I literally see people that are going out to grocery stores every single day right now

I'm certainly not claiming I have the answer because I dont ... all opinions are valid on this as we dont have much to base all of our opinions on unfortunately ... I think we can all agree we just want to get through this as quickly and painlessly as possible ... sad state of affairs

Oh okay. So the same could be said for people in general, right? Some will die, others will replace them.

See how that works?

I should be studying 11 said:

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Oh okay. So the same could be said for people in general, right? Some will die, others will replace them.

See how that works?

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you said it not me

AggieJosh2002 said:

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Gumby said:

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AggieJosh2002 said:

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The_Fox said:

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Federale01 said:

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When we can get adequate testing and resources set up that allow us to deal with this through regular methods of tracking and isolation. We aren't there yet because we diddled around for two months pretending this wasn't going to come here.

---

How long?

When do your paychecks stop?

Oh, that is right, you work for the government and are not impacted by this financially no matter how long this goes on.

Until you stop getting paid, your opinion means dick.

---

The problem is that you seem to think that "opening the country" gets the economy and jobs going again. Open it up, spread the virus, the healthcare system gets worse, and almost no one will be flying, eating out, going to movies, hiring non-essential workers, buying unnecessary goods/services. In fact there is an argument to be made that not getting the virus under control first could make the economic hardship and long-term job loss much worse. IMO, we should have a hard-core shutdown for a month where no one is allowed out for virtually any reason (i.e. no travel/not going out because you ran out of butter like I see now). Rip the band-aid off and get this over with so we actually get it under control and then we can begin to get more people back to work.

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How would you implement a month long hardcore shutdown? We NEED electricity, water, food, farms, medical supplies, truckers, health care, police, fire, cell phones, internet, etc. There are a lot of people that are required to leave their homes to provide those services. And those essential people need to be able to get things like gas in order to get to their essential jobs. It's just not feasible to force the entire population into their homes for a month.

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Obviously those are the true essentials that should be out ... the half-ass shelter in place we have done is just prolonging this... I literally see people that are going out to grocery stores every single day right now

I'm certainly not claiming I have the answer because I dont ... all opinions are valid on this as we dont have much to base all of our opinions on unfortunately ... I think we can all agree we just want to get through this as quickly and painlessly as possible ... sad state of affairs

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I just read an article about people being arrested in Honolulu for violating the shelter in place. I also saw that Trump is considering a lockdown of NYC, parts of NJ and Connecticut. Sounded like a Wuhan style lockdown. Cuomo was quoted saying he didn't like the sound of it and questioned whether it was actually legal.

I think if we tried to institute a national lockdown there would be huge resistance at the state and local level and probably court challenges all the way to the Supreme Court.

I like that idea of a NYC lockdown, why would Cuomo be against that? Is he afraid it would be political suicide and he's just waiting for Trump to be the bad guy? I mean, the guy is always on TV saying they don't have enough this, enough that, etc. Close the SOB down until you do!

Aust Ag said:

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I like that idea of a NYC lockdown, why would Cuomo be against that? Is he afraid it would be political suicide and he's just waiting for Trump to be the bad guy? I mean, the guy is always on TV saying they don't have enough this, enough that, etc. Close the SOB down until you do!

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He's probably opposed to it because it would prevent people from leaving NYC. Apparently a lot of them have been fleeing the city to other states like Florida and bringing the virus with them. If they lock them down in NYC that's just more cases for them to deal with.

The_Fox said:

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Federale01 said:

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When we can get adequate testing and resources set up that allow us to deal with this through regular methods of tracking and isolation. We aren't there yet because we diddled around for two months pretending this wasn't going to come here.

---

How long?

When do your paychecks stop?

Oh, that is right, you work for the government and are not impacted by this financially no matter how long this goes on.

Until you stop getting paid, your opinion means dick.

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Seems to me those who will have a job either way will likely be more objective, not less.

Objectivity must include a balancing test between economic harm and public health.

If you only face consequences on one front, not both, you cannot be objective. Skin in the game is a prerequisite.

Keegan99 said:

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Objectivity must include a balancing test between economic harm and public health.

If you only face consequences on one front, not both, you cannot be objective. Skin in the game is a prerequisite.

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Well, that's clearly not true at all. You can be objective about all manner of things, especially if they don't effect you. You can be objective about things that effect you greatly, it's just harder.

Personally, my work and paycheck is completely unaffected by this. The manner of tech related work I do means that this pandemic will probably have more business being drawn to the projects I directly work on once it's all over. Economically this doesn't matter to me, and it only slightly matters to my wife who makes 1/8th what I do. I've got very little skin in the game (outside a large RSU grant end of May which is already shot) since I don't plan on retiring for another 20-30 years.

I think we should reassess in two weeks about getting the country back to work, and let the chips fall. Kinda depends on the numbers, but I'm an optimist. I support the interventions taken thus far, but very quickly economic outcomes are going to tip the scales. Is that objective? Is it not objective?

If the downside of decisions don't affect you, I don't trust you to be objective at all. And no one else should, either.

By definition, it's a moral hazard.

Keegan99 said:

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If the downside of decisions don't affect you, I don't trust you to be objective at all. And no one else should, either.

By definition, it's a moral hazard.

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We'll have to agree to disagree

I don't trust anyone asked to weigh their job against the amorphous concept of X number of dead 80 year olds to make the best decision for society as a whole, because they rarely will. They won't be able to see the downstream effects of the choice that helps them in the short term.

The_Fox said:

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Federale01 said:

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Do you volunteer your loved ones as tribute?

The peak will be the peak because of the actions we are taking now. If we open things back up, there will be a second peak.

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So when do we open back up? We cannot stay closed for months. So when?

We are all going to die, my friend. I refuse to die cowered inside my home while the country crumbles around me or risk the future for my children or grandchildren by destroying their economic future or putting them on the path to socialism.

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Isn't this MF Barnes?

Infection_Ag11 said:

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The_Fox said:

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Federale01 said:

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When we can get adequate testing and resources set up that allow us to deal with this through regular methods of tracking and isolation. We aren't there yet because we diddled around for two months pretending this wasn't going to come here.

---

How long?

When do your paychecks stop?

Oh, that is right, you work for the government and are not impacted by this financially no matter how long this goes on.

Until you stop getting paid, your opinion means dick.

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Seems to me those who will have a job either way will likely be more objective, not less.

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More objective about the health side of things. Not so much about the economy side. They only have skin in the health side.

I have skin in both.

Mordred said:

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The_Fox said:

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When do your paychecks stop?

Oh, that is right, you work for the government and are not impacted by this financially no matter how long this goes on.

Until you stop getting paid, your opinion means dick.

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The_Fox said:

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Just like Federale said you cannot know my individual economic or health situation. I just so happens even if everything you listed comes to fruition with the economy, which it will not, as long as the courts are open my business will be fine.

I happen to sell a necessary, constitutionally mandated, service.

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Hmmmm.....

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The courts are not functioning normally. Federal grand juries are suspended. Some state courts have stopped having hearings.

Bulldog73 said:

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The_Fox said:

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Federale01 said:

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Do you volunteer your loved ones as tribute?

The peak will be the peak because of the actions we are taking now. If we open things back up, there will be a second peak.

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So when do we open back up? We cannot stay closed for months. So when?

We are all going to die, my friend. I refuse to die cowered inside my home while the country crumbles around me or risk the future for my children or grandchildren by destroying their economic future or putting them on the path to socialism.

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Isn't this MF Barnes?

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I think we both might be MF Barnes. Hell at this point I just assume anyone I am responding to on TexAgs is MF Barnes.

What good is money or a strong economy if you are dead? Oh you must assume it won't be you.

Can always make more money later. Most or all of us have more than enough.