U.S.S Theodore Roosevelt

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UTExan
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In reply to deadbq03 • 2:58p, 4/7/20
deadbq03 said:
wbt5845 said:
I'm often amazed at the naivete of civilians regarding concepts such as obeying orders, chain of command, etc.

This captain was not empowered to make that call which is why he was rightfully fired. He ought to be prosecuted for multiple UCMJ violations.
I beg to differ. The oath I took to be commissioned was explicitly different than an oath of enlistment... the phrase "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me" is found in the enlistment oath, but it is not found in the oath of commissioned officers.

My instructors made this point explicitly clear - there may be a time when your situational awareness, intimate knowledge of your troops, etc dictates that you have to make a decision that goes against the orders of officers above you. As an officer you have a duty to your troops to make that call (but you better be dang sure about it).


I am not certain that contacting CNN is ever a viable option, especially when you expose the health profile of your crew and you are commanding a strategic nuclear asset.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to Carolin_Gallego • 3:18p, 4/7/20
AG
Carolin_Gallego said:
Poor guy didn't last 4 months. Remember the last one?
This guy sounds like a tool.

Good order and discipline? Like calling a ship's commander stupid to the face of his command?

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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 3:29p, 4/7/20
AG
AG 2000' said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
Poor guy didn't last 4 months. Remember the last one?
This guy sounds like a tool.

Good order and discipline? Like calling a ship's commander stupid to the face of his command?

Different SECNAV than Modly
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Hammerheadjim
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In reply to knoxtom • 4:22p, 4/7/20
AG
knoxtom said:
Sometimes in life, especially when you are a high ranking person or a leader, there is no way out.

Had he not opened his mouth, given the close quarters on the ship, a thousand or so would have got sick and many would have died. They were overwhelmed with the 150 sick already. Do you think his supervisors would have fallen on the sword? Of course not, by keeping his mouth shut he would have been fired and people would have died.

Option 2 - going public. He knew he had a really good chance of being fired, but he thought it would save lives.

Either way, he was getting fired, there was no way out.

Not the Navy's fault either, they had to remove him as you can't let the world know a carrier is a less than full strength.

Kobayashi Maru
This is simply not true. By all accounts I have read and heard from people I served with the NAVY already was in process of dealing with this. The captain made a bad judgement call because he personally did like the plan. Tobe sure, we will all read about it in his book next year, if not sooner.
Walk softly and carry a big stick! Make sure the big stick makes big boom noises and flashy bright lights.
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Carolin_Gallego
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4:24p, 4/7/20
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.
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Hammerheadjim
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In reply to Pumpkinhead • 4:28p, 4/7/20
AG
Pumpkinhead said:
Pumpkinhead said:
Not sure I understand why Modly (a civilian) was racing out to be first firing Crozier instead of the investigation/relieving Crozier of his duties being handled through the uniformed officers chain of command. Won't surprise me if Modly ultimately pays a price for his actions in this as well, because he seems to have ticked off at least a few people in the Pentagon.
And there ya go....Modly gone.

Well, President Trump did say he was going to get involved.
I would say he got involved...

Gigem.
Walk softly and carry a big stick! Make sure the big stick makes big boom noises and flashy bright lights.
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Federale01
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12:01p, 4/13/20
AG
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-13/uss-theodore-roosevelt-sailor-dies-from-the-coronavirus?context=amp

First sailor from the TR died.
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HotardAg07
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12:30p, 4/13/20
AG
A good piece on more of the details around the incident:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/coronavirus-roosevelt-carrier-crozier.html

I found this part enlightening:
Quote:
He showed the email to a handful of the most senior officers on the ship. They told him they wanted to sign it, too. Captain Crozier, fearing for their careers, told them no.
and
Quote:
As Captain Crozier walked off his ship and down the gangway wearing a black backpack and baseball cap, hundreds of sailors and aircrew members showed up on the hangar bay to form a corridor for him. Videos of the crew cheering and shouting "Captain Crozier" immediately went viral.
And that, Navy officials said, infuriated Mr. Modly. His next actions stunned Pentagon officials and effectively turned the crew of the Roosevelt even more solidly against him.
Mr. Modly boarded a Gulfstream business jet at an airfield in suburban Washington and made the 35-hour round-trip flight to Guam, at a cost of $243,116.65, according to a Navy official, confirming a report in USA Today. When he landed, he spoke with Mr. Ignatius to defend himself. He also wrote a letter to The New York Times in which he again criticized the captain he had fired and who had, by now, tested positive for the coronavirus.
Then he went to the Roosevelt and delivered a 15-minute diatribe over the ship's loudspeakers berating the crew for cheering for its captain. He called Captain Crozier either "too nave" or "too stupid" to command an aircraft carrier. He told the sailors they should never trust the media. He blamed China for the virus. Less than 30 minutes later, after taking no questions from the sailors, he was gone.
Within another 30 minutes of his visit, audio of his remarks was being shared broadly across social media, complete with crew reaction. "What the?" one sailor was heard saying when Mr. Modly called Captain Crozier "stupid."
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UTExan
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In reply to oragator • 12:41p, 4/13/20
Quote:
...but at the time there were only 16 coronavirus cases in northern Vietnam and the port was in the central part of the country.
Gee, it almost makes you think that the crew was intentionally infected with CV19 while in port.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
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PJYoung
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In reply to Carolin_Gallego • 1:39p, 4/13/20
AG
Carolin_Gallego said:
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.


Over 600 now
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pocketrockets06
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In reply to UTExan • 1:43p, 4/13/20
AG
One of the articles recently noted that the shore leave was cut short after two British nationals tested positive at the same hotel some of the sailors were staying at. Basically, all of the cases when they docked were in the northern part of the country but there were cases in Danang before they left.
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pocketrockets06
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In reply to HotardAg07 • 1:44p, 4/13/20
AG
Also, a key highlight- the first infections were in the reactor compartment. Kind of hard to shut down that portion of the ship for a deep clean when you are at sea.
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Tex100
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In reply to PJYoung • 5:44p, 4/13/20
AG
PJYoung said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.


Over 600 now
550 is what I am told but close enough.
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In reply to Tex100 • 6:32p, 4/13/20
AG
Tex100 said:
PJYoung said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.


Over 600 now
550 is what I am told but close enough.

Ah yeah I got that from this statement and remembered it as over 600.

Quote:
Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt's crew members have been tested for the virus.
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Carolin_Gallego
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In reply to PJYoung • 7:03p, 4/13/20
PJYoung said:
Tex100 said:
PJYoung said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.


Over 600 now
550 is what I am told but close enough.

Ah yeah I got that from this statement and remembered it as over 600.

Quote:
Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt's crew members have been tested for the virus.
plus
Quote:
585 had tested positive for coronavirus as of (today)
I imagine the untested 8% will put the number over 600. And perhaps a few of the tested will still come down with it.
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culdeus
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In reply to UTExan • 7:11p, 4/13/20
AG
UTExan said:
deadbq03 said:
wbt5845 said:
I'm often amazed at the naivete of civilians regarding concepts such as obeying orders, chain of command, etc.

This captain was not empowered to make that call which is why he was rightfully fired. He ought to be prosecuted for multiple UCMJ violations.
I beg to differ. The oath I took to be commissioned was explicitly different than an oath of enlistment... the phrase "obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me" is found in the enlistment oath, but it is not found in the oath of commissioned officers.

My instructors made this point explicitly clear - there may be a time when your situational awareness, intimate knowledge of your troops, etc dictates that you have to make a decision that goes against the orders of officers above you. As an officer you have a duty to your troops to make that call (but you better be dang sure about it).


I am not certain that contacting CNN is ever a viable option, especially when you expose the health profile of your crew and you are commanding a strategic nuclear asset.


Who contacted CNN and when?
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Tex100
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In reply to PJYoung • 11:42a, 4/14/20
AG
PJYoung said:
Tex100 said:
PJYoung said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.


Over 600 now
550 is what I am told but close enough.

Ah yeah I got that from this statement and remembered it as over 600.

Quote:
Nearly 600 sailors on the Roosevelt have tested positive for Covid-19, the US Navy said in a statement, adding that 92% of the Roosevelt's crew members have been tested for the virus.
I'm going by what my sister said yesterday. Her son is on the ship. He has tested negative. He served with the sailor who died on this ship and another carrier a few years ago.
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Carolin_Gallego
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In reply to Tex100 • 11:48a, 4/14/20
Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?
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Tex100
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In reply to Carolin_Gallego • 1:47p, 4/14/20
AG
Carolin_Gallego said:
Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?
Haven't asked her and if I did, I wouldn't discuss it on a message board
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oragator
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2:16p, 4/24/20
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texan12
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In reply to Tex100 • 2:37p, 4/24/20
Tex100 said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?
Haven't asked her and if I did, I wouldn't discuss it on a message board


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Squadron7
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In reply to texan12 • 2:44p, 4/24/20
AG
texan12 said:
Tex100 said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
Has your sister's son mentioned how this mess is affecting the crew's morale?
Haven't asked her and if I did, I wouldn't discuss it on a message board


Why not?

Good point. Sharing the situational readiness status of a warship with the entire world seems all the rage now.
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DevilD77
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In reply to oragator • 3:11p, 4/24/20
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oragator said:
This would be a very bad idea and not set a good command precedent.
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texan12
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In reply to Squadron7 • 3:37p, 4/24/20
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TXAggie2011
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In reply to DevilD77 • 4:12p, 4/24/20
AG
DevilD77 said:

This would be a very bad idea and not set a good command precedent.
Until we know the results of the investigation they carried out prior to making this recommendation, I'm not sure we're in a position to say either way.
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Carolin_Gallego
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In reply to PJYoung • 4:22p, 4/24/20
PJYoung said:
Carolin_Gallego said:
As of today, 230 positive cases so far.


Over 600 now

Over 800 now.
We believe progress is made through MORE discussion, not LESS, and we believe that to be true even if the topics are uncomfortable and we occasionally disagree with one another. - TexAgs
The name-calling technique making false associations is a child's game. The propagandist who uses this technique hopes that the audience will reject a person and their argument on this false basis.
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Sq 17
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In reply to TXAggie2011 • 7:31p, 4/24/20
TXAggie2011 said:
DevilD77 said:

This would be a very bad idea and not set a good command precedent.
Until we know the results of the investigation they carried out prior to making this recommendation, I'm not sure we're in a position to say either way.
Facts don't matter Investigations don't mater We only believe that which agrees with our own
PERSONAL CONFIRMATION BIAS
we all were 100% certain as to what should have been done from the very first moment the story broke
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