GeographyAg said:

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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None of what you linked attributes the lack of tests in the U.S. to inaccurate tests from China or South Korea. If South Korea's tests were so inaccurate, how would they have quickly got the virus under control? That 30% number comes from pure speculation by one individual in the article and he doesn't even mention South Korea. By every account I've read, South Korea used tests developed by the WHO which were fairly accurate, whereas the administration and the CDC shunned these tests and tried to develop it's own test which turned out to be highly inaccurate.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-coronavirus-testing-while-the-us-fell-dangerously-behind

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I wish people would stop comparing the US to South Korea. South Korea is about the size of Indiana.

It's like comparing apples to an 18-wheeler. They aren't even in the same universe.

I don't see how what they did or didn't do has any relation to how things can/should/did work here.

I think everyone, including Orange Man Bad, wants us to have plenty of tests and reliable information. But it's just not nearly as easy as the "BUT SOUTH KOREA DID IT!" People want to make it out to be.

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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Of course the logistics of addressing a pandemic may be more challenging for a country with a larger population (although you could argue larger countries may also have more resources than smaller countries), but we shouldn't ignore the strategies used by countries that managed to get this under wraps fairly quickly. Surely we will want to pay attention to Sweden's approach of herd immunity to see if it can inform us? Or should we just throw that out because they're so much smaller in population size? Some people just seem to have trouble accepting it's possible that the U.S. has made some serious mistakes in response to this pandemic.

And by the way, South Korea is about 7 times larger in population than Indiana (about 50 million).

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Quote:

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"There are an alarming number of cases that turn out to be false negatives. Then you may have a silent carrier out and about spreading the virus to others. So it's safe to have at least two types checked out," Dr. Lee Wang-Jun, chairman of Myungji Hospital in Goyang, told ABC News. In other words, the entire process would have to be repeated twice. Seegene's Allplex 2019-nCoV Assay offers unique technology designed to target all three genes in one single tube saving time.

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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None of what you linked attributes the lack of tests in the U.S. to inaccurate tests from China or South Korea. If South Korea's tests were so inaccurate, how would they have quickly got the virus under control? That 30% number comes from pure speculation by one individual in the article and he doesn't even mention South Korea. By every account I've read, South Korea used tests developed by the WHO which were fairly accurate, whereas the administration and the CDC shunned these tests and tried to develop it's own test which turned out to be highly inaccurate.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-coronavirus-testing-while-the-us-fell-dangerously-behind

---

I wish people would stop comparing the US to South Korea. South Korea is about the size of Indiana.

It's like comparing apples to an 18-wheeler. They aren't even in the same universe.

I don't see how what they did or didn't do has any relation to how things can/should/did work here.

I think everyone, including Orange Man Bad, wants us to have plenty of tests and reliable information. But it's just not nearly as easy as the "BUT SOUTH KOREA DID IT!" People want to make it out to be.

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If "orange man bad" had reacted appropriately instead of spending 2 full months (after there were American cases) telling America "the heat will fix this" you might see a little more confidence. "Orange man bad" didn't change his tune until sometime in March.

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nortex97 said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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None of what you linked attributes the lack of tests in the U.S. to inaccurate tests from China or South Korea. If South Korea's tests were so inaccurate, how would they have quickly got the virus under control? That 30% number comes from pure speculation by one individual in the article and he doesn't even mention South Korea. By every account I've read, South Korea used tests developed by the WHO which were fairly accurate, whereas the administration and the CDC shunned these tests and tried to develop it's own test which turned out to be highly inaccurate.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-coronavirus-testing-while-the-us-fell-dangerously-behind

---

I wish people would stop comparing the US to South Korea. South Korea is about the size of Indiana.

It's like comparing apples to an 18-wheeler. They aren't even in the same universe.

I don't see how what they did or didn't do has any relation to how things can/should/did work here.

I think everyone, including Orange Man Bad, wants us to have plenty of tests and reliable information. But it's just not nearly as easy as the "BUT SOUTH KOREA DID IT!" People want to make it out to be.

---

If "orange man bad" had reacted appropriately instead of spending 2 full months (after there were American cases) telling America "the heat will fix this" you might see a little more confidence. "Orange man bad" didn't change his tune until sometime in March.

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How upset are you that Fauci hasn't called him out on that? How about DeBlasio's comments in March for folks to go about their lives? Chinatown visit by Pelosi? LOL, this is the kind of thing that illustrates how deranged the left is.

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GeographyAg said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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None of what you linked attributes the lack of tests in the U.S. to inaccurate tests from China or South Korea. If South Korea's tests were so inaccurate, how would they have quickly got the virus under control? That 30% number comes from pure speculation by one individual in the article and he doesn't even mention South Korea. By every account I've read, South Korea used tests developed by the WHO which were fairly accurate, whereas the administration and the CDC shunned these tests and tried to develop it's own test which turned out to be highly inaccurate.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-coronavirus-testing-while-the-us-fell-dangerously-behind

---

I wish people would stop comparing the US to South Korea. South Korea is about the size of Indiana.

It's like comparing apples to an 18-wheeler. They aren't even in the same universe.

I don't see how what they did or didn't do has any relation to how things can/should/did work here.

I think everyone, including Orange Man Bad, wants us to have plenty of tests and reliable information. But it's just not nearly as easy as the "BUT SOUTH KOREA DID IT!" People want to make it out to be.

---

If "orange man bad" had reacted appropriately instead of spending 2 full months (after there were American cases) telling America "the heat will fix this" you might see a little more confidence. "Orange man bad" didn't change his tune until sometime in March.

---

Oh, please? This again?

Let's actually look at the timeline with facts, shall we?

On Jan. 21, the first case of coronavirus in the United States was reported, of a man who had traveled from Wuhan, China. President Trump referred to it the next day but he was still seeing reports that the risk was low (from the CDC and WHO).

Jan. 24: The CDC confirmed the second U.S. case of coronavirus, adding again that "based on what we know right now, the immediate risk to America remains low."

Jan. 28: The WHO published another statement about the coronavirus, with a photograph and headline saying: "WHO, China leaders discuss next steps in battle against coronavirus outbreak." Pictured are WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping. According to the release, "The WHO delegation highly appreciated the actions China has implemented in response to the outbreak, its speed in identifying the virus and openness to sharing information with WHO and other countries."
The same day, President Trump expanded U.S. airport screenings to identify travelers showing symptoms and instituted mandatory quarantines.

On Jan. 30, the WHO declared a global health emergency of international concern.

On Jan. 30, the CDC confirmed publicly for the first time the person-to-person spread of Wuhan virus and applauded WHO's decision. That day, the president created the White House Coronavirus Task Force to coordinate efforts regarding this new disease.

The next day, Jan. 31, the president declared coronavirus a U.S. public health emergency and issued the ban on travel between the United States and China. On that same day, the Senate voted on the production of additional documents in the impeachment trial of President Trump. Campaigning in Iowa that day, Biden criticized President Trump's China travel ban, saying during an Iowa campaign event, "This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia."

Feb. 4: The White House directed the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to step up coronavirus diagnostic testing procedures.

Feb. 5: The CDC issued a public statement saying, "While we continue to believe the immediate risk of 2019nCoV exposure to the general public is low, CDC is undertaking measures to help keep that risk low."
Feb. 18: The CDC reaffirmed that the "risk to Americans from coronavirus is low."

Feb. 20: The administration raised travel warnings to their highest level for Japan and South Korea.

It was not until Feb. 26 that the first case of suspected local transmission in the United States was announced by the CDC. President Trump that day named Vice President Pence to lead the Coronavirus Task Force. The next day, Feb. 27, Pence named Dr. Deborah Birx to serve as the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator.

On Feb. 29, the first death from the coronavirus was recorded in the United States. On that date, President Trump halted travel with Iran.

On March 11, the WHO declared coronavirus a worldwide pandemic. The next day, on March 12, President Trump imposed travel restrictions on Europe and elsewhere. Biden criticized that decision also.
Then, on March 13, President Trump declared a national emergency.

Has Trump handled it perfectly? No. No human being could have. But looking at what he's actually done, it looks to me like he's done pretty well in responding as quickly as possible with the information he was given.

But I think he's had his hands tied behind his back with several things:
- lies and obfuscation from the Chinese government
- lies and obfuscation from the WHO
- criticism from democrats who see every move he makes as racist or xenophobic or whatever bad motive they can attack him with.


On the other hand, De Blasio can be seen to repeatedly downplay the virus, even after Trump put the travel ban in place. This may be why NYC has had such a bad time of it, but Trump gets all the blame.

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Necrosis said:

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ec2004 said:

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Necrosis,

Thank you for your valuable input. Can I get your perspective (or that of other docs on the board)?

It feels like we've been hearing of the coming wave for some time. While the intensity of the illness is clear, with the exception of NYC my perception is that most hospitals are hollowed out and generally waiting for the wave's arrival. Is this in mine or different from your experience?

Side note: I feel like I've gotten better information from this board than any other new source. Thanks!

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Sometimes I feel like a NASA scientist trying to explain that an asteroid will hit us in 4 weeks and people argue back that this is not possible because it hasn't happened yet. I don't know what to say. No news is good news. The more we can delay the better. (see link below).

The healthcare forecasts are alarming, however, the good news (at least so far) is that human behavior is the main coefficient and the more we can physically distance the better the outcome will be. From the frontline, I see a massive pullback of the tide. This happened in Italy as well just before the surge. So I don't feel super confident that it will be different here. I've also watched as weeks went by as we slowly turned off the faucet as the rest of the world, less the UK, made quick decisions to shut off the faucet. Physicians in Italy were quoted as saying while watching America respond to this crisis "was like watching a horror movie" because they did the same and they wished they had acted sooner.

Texas has been hit or miss as each county basically took control of when they enacted shelter in place measures instead of enacting a statewide measure. I'm not in a place to argue whether this was the best decision or not but history will give us better insight. Most counties from what I could tell were slightly behind the curve if not on the curve, however, many underserved counties fell behind because they had "no active cases" even though most of the state is medically underserved. This will likely create a burden on our main tertiary medical facilities and I hope that they are not overwhelmed.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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bay fan said:

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Sorry, my post was mostly frustration with the absolutely incorrect information being disseminated daily from this administration. This whole situation would be so much better if we were getting to straight story from the top.

Most people realize the medical community has been handling this with both hands tied behind their backs. Your efforts are incredibly appreciated.

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Acknowledge people outside this "administration" who said it was perfectly OK to go out and mingle in late February if you are going to go there.

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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PNone of what you linked attributes the lack of tests in the U.S. to inaccurate tests from China or South Korea. If South Korea's tests were so inaccurate, how would they have quickly got the virus under control? That 30% number comes from pure speculation by one individual in the article and he doesn't even mention South Korea. By every account I've read, South Korea used tests developed by the WHO which were fairly accurate, whereas the administration and the CDC shunned these tests and tried to develop it's own test which turned out to be highly inaccurate.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-coronavirus-testing-while-the-us-fell-dangerously-behind

---

I wish people would stop comparing the US to South Korea. South Korea is about the size of Indiana.

It's like comparing apples to an 18-wheeler. They aren't even in the same universe.

I don't see how what they did or didn't do has any relation to how things can/should/did work here.

I think everyone, including Orange Man Bad, wants us to have plenty of tests and reliable information. But it's just not nearly as easy as the "BUT SOUTH KOREA DID IT!" People want to make it out to be.

---

If "orange man bad" had reacted appropriately instead of spending 2 full months (after there were American cases) telling America "the heat will fix this" you might see a little more confidence. "Orange man bad" didn't change his tune until sometime in March.

---

Oh, please? This again?

Let's actually look at the timeline with facts, shall we?

On Jan. 21, the first case of coronavirus in the United States was reported, of a man who had traveled from Wuhan, China. President Trump referred to it the next day but he was still seeing reports that the risk was low (from the CDC and WHO).

Jan. 24: The CDC confirmed the second U.S. case of coronavirus, adding again that "based on what we know right now, the immediate risk to America remains low."

Jan. 28: The WHO published another statement about the coronavirus, with a photograph and headline saying: "WHO, China leaders discuss next steps in battle against coronavirus outbreak." Pictured are WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping. According to the release, "The WHO delegation highly appreciated the actions China has implemented in response to the outbreak, its speed in identifying the virus and openness to sharing information with WHO and other countries."
The same day, President Trump expanded U.S. airport screenings to identify travelers showing symptoms and instituted mandatory quarantines.

On Jan. 30, the WHO declared a global health emergency of international concern.

On Jan. 30, the CDC confirmed publicly for the first time the person-to-person spread of Wuhan virus and applauded WHO's decision. That day, the president created the White House Coronavirus Task Force to coordinate efforts regarding this new disease.

The next day, Jan. 31, the president declared coronavirus a U.S. public health emergency and issued the ban on travel between the United States and China. On that same day, the Senate voted on the production of additional documents in the impeachment trial of President Trump. Campaigning in Iowa that day, Biden criticized President Trump's China travel ban, saying during an Iowa campaign event, "This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia."

Feb. 4: The White House directed the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to step up coronavirus diagnostic testing procedures.

Feb. 5: The CDC issued a public statement saying, "While we continue to believe the immediate risk of 2019nCoV exposure to the general public is low, CDC is undertaking measures to help keep that risk low."
Feb. 18: The CDC reaffirmed that the "risk to Americans from coronavirus is low."

Feb. 20: The administration raised travel warnings to their highest level for Japan and South Korea.

It was not until Feb. 26 that the first case of suspected local transmission in the United States was announced by the CDC. President Trump that day named Vice President Pence to lead the Coronavirus Task Force. The next day, Feb. 27, Pence named Dr. Deborah Birx to serve as the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator.

On Feb. 29, the first death from the coronavirus was recorded in the United States. On that date, President Trump halted travel with Iran.

On March 11, the WHO declared coronavirus a worldwide pandemic. The next day, on March 12, President Trump imposed travel restrictions on Europe and elsewhere. Biden criticized that decision also.
Then, on March 13, President Trump declared a national emergency.

Has Trump handled it perfectly? No. No human being could have. But looking at what he's actually done, it looks to me like he's done pretty well in responding as quickly as possible with the information he was given.

But I think he's had his hands tied behind his back with several things:
- lies and obfuscation from the Chinese government
- lies and obfuscation from the WHO
- criticism from democrats who see every move he makes as racist or xenophobic or whatever bad motive they can attack him with.


On the other hand, De Blasio can be seen to repeatedly downplay the virus, even after Trump put the travel ban in place. This may be why NYC has had such a bad time of it, but Trump gets all the blame.

---

Weird that your "complete" accounting leaves out the dozens of rallies and speeches given by POTUS throughout February saying this is nothing to worry about, warm weather kills it. Hilarious that your "unbiased" viewpoint holds local mayors to the same standard as POTUS. Such spin.

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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GeographyAg said:

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Dr.HeadCase said:

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None of what you linked attributes the lack of tests in the U.S. to inaccurate tests from China or South Korea. If South Korea's tests were so inaccurate, how would they have quickly got the virus under control? That 30% number comes from pure speculation by one individual in the article and he doesn't even mention South Korea. By every account I've read, South Korea used tests developed by the WHO which were fairly accurate, whereas the administration and the CDC shunned these tests and tried to develop it's own test which turned out to be highly inaccurate.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-south-korea-scaled-coronavirus-testing-while-the-us-fell-dangerously-behind

---

I wish people would stop comparing the US to South Korea. South Korea is about the size of Indiana.

It's like comparing apples to an 18-wheeler. They aren't even in the same universe.

I don't see how what they did or didn't do has any relation to how things can/should/did work here.

I think everyone, including Orange Man Bad, wants us to have plenty of tests and reliable information. But it's just not nearly as easy as the "BUT SOUTH KOREA DID IT!" People want to make it out to be.

---

If "orange man bad" had reacted appropriately instead of spending 2 full months (after there were American cases) telling America "the heat will fix this" you might see a little more confidence. "Orange man bad" didn't change his tune until sometime in March.

---

Oh, please? This again?

Let's actually look at the timeline with facts, shall we?

On Jan. 21, the first case of coronavirus in the United States was reported, of a man who had traveled from Wuhan, China. President Trump referred to it the next day but he was still seeing reports that the risk was low (from the CDC and WHO).

Jan. 24: The CDC confirmed the second U.S. case of coronavirus, adding again that "based on what we know right now, the immediate risk to America remains low."

Jan. 28: The WHO published another statement about the coronavirus, with a photograph and headline saying: "WHO, China leaders discuss next steps in battle against coronavirus outbreak." Pictured are WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping. According to the release, "The WHO delegation highly appreciated the actions China has implemented in response to the outbreak, its speed in identifying the virus and openness to sharing information with WHO and other countries."
The same day, President Trump expanded U.S. airport screenings to identify travelers showing symptoms and instituted mandatory quarantines.

On Jan. 30, the WHO declared a global health emergency of international concern.

On Jan. 30, the CDC confirmed publicly for the first time the person-to-person spread of Wuhan virus and applauded WHO's decision. That day, the president created the White House Coronavirus Task Force to coordinate efforts regarding this new disease.

The next day, Jan. 31, the president declared coronavirus a U.S. public health emergency and issued the ban on travel between the United States and China. On that same day, the Senate voted on the production of additional documents in the impeachment trial of President Trump. Campaigning in Iowa that day, Biden criticized President Trump's China travel ban, saying during an Iowa campaign event, "This is no time for Donald Trump's record of hysteria and xenophobia."

Feb. 4: The White House directed the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to step up coronavirus diagnostic testing procedures.

Feb. 5: The CDC issued a public statement saying, "While we continue to believe the immediate risk of 2019nCoV exposure to the general public is low, CDC is undertaking measures to help keep that risk low."
Feb. 18: The CDC reaffirmed that the "risk to Americans from coronavirus is low."

Feb. 20: The administration raised travel warnings to their highest level for Japan and South Korea.

It was not until Feb. 26 that the first case of suspected local transmission in the United States was announced by the CDC. President Trump that day named Vice President Pence to lead the Coronavirus Task Force. The next day, Feb. 27, Pence named Dr. Deborah Birx to serve as the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator.

On Feb. 29, the first death from the coronavirus was recorded in the United States. On that date, President Trump halted travel with Iran.

On March 11, the WHO declared coronavirus a worldwide pandemic. The next day, on March 12, President Trump imposed travel restrictions on Europe and elsewhere. Biden criticized that decision also.
Then, on March 13, President Trump declared a national emergency.

Has Trump handled it perfectly? No. No human being could have. But looking at what he's actually done, it looks to me like he's done pretty well in responding as quickly as possible with the information he was given.

But I think he's had his hands tied behind his back with several things:
- lies and obfuscation from the Chinese government
- lies and obfuscation from the WHO
- criticism from democrats who see every move he makes as racist or xenophobic or whatever bad motive they can attack him with.


On the other hand, De Blasio can be seen to repeatedly downplay the virus, even after Trump put the travel ban in place. This may be why NYC has had such a bad time of it, but Trump gets all the blame.

---

Weird that your "complete" accounting leaves out the dozens of rallies and speeches given by POTUS throughout February saying this is nothing to worry about, warm weather kills it. Hilarious that your "unbiased" viewpoint holds local mayors to the same standard as POTUS. Such spin.

---