Sweden was about the only country that actually followed the game plan for a virus like covid.

They are basically back to normal already with way less impact on their economy and will in the end be the winner.

So many here falsely stating Sweden's economy would be as bad as lockdown countries obviously don't understand economics. They were 100% wrong.

You can't lock yourself down and eliminate a respiratory virus, lockdowns have been a complete disaster and the death toll will be really bad for the countries that followed that idiotic approach from cancer, heart disease, depression, poverty, etc..

Not to mention Sweden followed one of the strictest policies for counting deaths as covid.

No, they're not.

Marauder Blue 6 said:

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Sweden considering lockdowns.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-shifts-away-no-lockdown-strategy-amid-growing-case-numbers-2020-10

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Local governments can strongly recommend people avoid busy public places. Yeah, that is a lock down.

The govt could say maybe not hang out at restaurants late at night... but there are no fines or legal repercussions for not following the advice. Sounds exactly the same as the government closing establishments.

Sweden is doing great. The Covidians in the media are just trying to find a metric/doctor/local politician somewhere to sling at them.

The pathological desire among some to discredit Sweden's success is baffling.

In case it wasn't clear, no, Sweden isn't considering "lockdowns" and the "journalists" that reported as much are frauds.

Keegan99 said:

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The pathological desire among some to discredit Sweden's success is baffling.

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Agree.

Keegan99 said:

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In case it wasn't clear, no, Sweden isn't considering "lockdowns" and the "journalists" that reported as much are frauds.

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Like using the common sense God gave us?

Again, no pathological desire to discredit Sweden. I try to seek information from both sides of issues, thus the reason I continue to read this board, even thought it's not as balanced as it used to be.

I saw this longer article that is primarily an interview with quotes from Sweden's epidemiologist. It lacked extreme bias, which I appreciated.

Not trying to start any arguments. Just thought it was an interesting article about the topic at hand.

cc_ag92 said:

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Again, no pathological desire to discredit Sweden. I try to seek information from both sides of issues, thus the reason I continue to read this board, even thought it's not as balanced as it used to be.

I saw this longer article that is primarily an interview with quotes from Sweden's epidemiologist. It lacked extreme bias, which I appreciated.

Not trying to start any arguments. Just thought it was an interesting article about the topic at hand.

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Curious as to what you mean by "balance". And serious when I say that and not trying to be argumentative.

To me, there is truth and non truth.

And will also add that there is a lot of historical evidence of how novel respiratory viruses behave. And Covid is basically following the same path.

Sadly, not many of our head docs even brought that stuff up. In fact, the Belgian docs were the first ones who pointed it out.

And Sweden actually followed what has been done in the past with respiratory spread viruses. And it worked.

cc_ag92 said:

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I actually didn't take it as an argument.
This board used to have more participation from doctors and scientists. Now it's veered more toward politics and name calling. Not everyone does that, by any means, but there's a vocal group.
I actually appreciate the sources and perspectives offered by many of the most active people, even when I'm not entirely convinced that what they posti is 100% accurate. I like being challenged to see different perspectives.
I just wish that we could leave politics out of it and attempt civil conversations so that more perspectives were part of the conversations.
Thanks for the opportunity to tell you what I meant.

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You are welcome. But when a thread gets nuked simply because I say none of the docs I know agree with a lot of what is posted on here something is wrong. And repeatedly.

And that is not political.

Thanks for the gracious post.

And I am still confused by what you mean by balanced. There are no "sides" unless you are adding politics and emotion. There is truth, historical data, and non truth. Maybe I am missing something.

In case anyone still thought the propaganda headlines that Sweden was considering lockdowns were true, Sweden is actually relaxing recommendations for the elderly. Why? Because they looked at the situation with a broad view of health and not through the soda straw of only COVID.


https://www.thelocal.se/20201022/sweden-scraps-coronavirus-recommendations-for-over-70s

Quote:

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People aged over 70 or in other risk groups at high risk of severe illness from the coronavirus will no longer be covered by special recommendations, the government announced on Thursday.

From March, people aged over 70 or in risk groups have been advised to avoid all close contact with people outside their households, including avoiding going to shops, supermarkets, and other places with large numbers of people.

Now these specific recommendations will be removed. Instead, everyone in the population including the over-70s will be following the national recommendations which have been in place since March.

This means over-70s are no longer advised against going to shops or having close contact with others, but all age groups are still required to keep a distance from other people in public places, avoiding large gatherings, and staying at home when showing any symptoms.

"This group has made big sacrifices in order to protect themselves and to reduce the spread of infection," said health and social affairs minister Lena Hallengren.

Public Health Agency head Johan Carlson said that the additional measures for over-70s had had an effect, but that it was not justifiable to keep them in place with evidence that mental and physical health had suffered from isolation.

...

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Would be in line with about 100k new cases in the US based on population differences. 7 deaths is tiny tho.

Deaths tend to lag 2-4 weeks, so their spike in deaths is still to come. In general, it seems like we're much better at treating Covid than we were six months ago, so I doubt they approach the death toll they had early summer.

I do think Sweden's recent increase is showing they never hit herd immunity. I don't think any country is anywhere close to that. I think we'll likely see spikes all over the Northern Hemisphere as winter approaches. Hopefully, though, the death toll stays fairly low and people come to the conclusion we know how to treat Covid and they don't shut everything down again.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sweden-stages-coronavirus-u-turn-banning-public-events-with-more-than-eight-people-11605538856

Quote:

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Sweden is switching from its voluntary lockdowns to a much more aggressive approach that will see public events of more than eight people banned.

The Nordic country was one of the few countries that didn't go into an enforced lockdown, and has rejected the need for masks. In October, it drew up guidelines for a voluntary lockdown in cities worst hit by coronavirus.

But in a dramatic U-turn on Monday, new restrictions will no longer be a recommendation but enshrined in law as part of Sweden's Public Order Act, which means there will be harsh penalties for violating them. Lawbreakers could face fines or up to six months in prison.

The restriction is aimed at public events such as sporting events and concerts and doesn't extend to private gatherings.

Prime Minister Stefan Lfven told citizens: "It's going to get worse. Do your duty and take responsibility to stop the spread of infection. "There should not be social situations with more than eight people even if they are not formally affected by the law. This is the new norm for the whole society, for all of Sweden. Don't go to the gym. Don't go to the library. Don't have dinners. Don't have parties. Cancel."

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In answer to the OP, no.

Pretty poor take on this and the problem with viewing things in a vacuum. Need to weigh with the economy, mental health, and life years lost. Also, a proper evaluation would include weighing the flu seasons of the last two years and would show the neighboring countries having lost more than normal while Sweden had lighter than normal flu seasons, which left many more vulnerable alive for an extra year or two.

I'm guessing Sweden's now more strict policies are followed much more than the rest of the world because they haven't been told two more weeks for the last 8 months.

I like Sweden's approach because they are trying to be logical and follow the science. But as I warned the anti lockdown brigade before, Sweden will go full restriction if they think it's the right move. They don't have a hard philosophical stance on the response. Which is awesome.

amercer said:

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I like Sweden's approach because they are trying to be logical and follow the science. But as I warned the anti lockdown brigade before, Sweden will go full restriction if they think it's the right move. They don't have a hard philosophical stance on the response. Which is awesome.

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I agree with you. This is how it should have been in the US too. This what most people have been screaming for.

The one place I don't agree is I don't think it's so much an anti-lockdown brigade as it is people scream at us to follow the science, but the decision makers aren't seemingly following science in their decision making.

Case in point. What has the CDC been telling us for months? Being outside is the safest place, stay distanced, and vitamin D is best for us.

The Northern states wasted most of their summer with restrictions and then started opening up like a month before cold weather started to set in, which drives everyone back inside.

Also - if mass protests while wearing masks are not drivers of case increases, which is something that even scientists said at the time (that and that protesting police brutality was more important the virus), why is being in an outdoor football stadium at max capacity with everyone wearing masks not allowed? The fact that mass protests with masks weren't supposedly driving spread should have been the best news of the year and shouted from the rooftops!

So, decision makers in the US tell us they are following the science, but then they don't even follow the science they state they are following when they could have actually opened things up a little bit earlier during a safer period of time.

So yes, I am FOR making decisions based on actual data.