Reinfection data from South Korea

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4133
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2:10p, 4/17/20
I'm not sure how to link but today's WSJ cited reinfections from those that had previously tested positive and recovered (defined as no symptoms and two negative covid weekly test results).

Some of the positive patients were retested due to showing symptoms.

Obviously, this is just an initial report, no full blown study yet, and subject to all of the other well-documents issues with testing (e.g. availability, efficacy, etc) but I believe this is something to keep an eye on.

It seems to me that we are only very slowly understanding how this virus behaves. Would love to hear from some of the docs on this forum on the topic.
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Duncan Idaho
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2:14p, 4/17/20
Even scarier is the idea that it reactivates like shingles.

I hope it is as simple as they got reinfected or had a bad test
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PJYoung
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 2:36p, 4/17/20
AG
Duncan Idaho said:
Even scarier is the idea that it reactivates like shingles.

I hope it is as simple as they got reinfected or had a bad test

They had false negatives in all likelihood.
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oragator
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2:42p, 4/17/20
This has been around for a while, don't know anyone that's panicked over it, but it's important data to know.
Other possibility is that different strains can affect the same person, which would make vaccinations tougher to make I presume.
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Sq 17
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In reply to PJYoung • 2:48p, 4/17/20
hopefully they were asymptomatic which would point to a false positive
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4133
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In reply to PJYoung • 2:50p, 4/17/20
PJYoung said:
Duncan Idaho said:
Even scarier is the idea that it reactivates like shingles.

I hope it is as simple as they got reinfected or had a bad test

They had false negatives in all likelihood.
maybe. this means that these people:

1) got covid (likely with symptoms since they received an initial test),

2) recovered from covid (no more symptoms),

3) had a first false negative test,

4) had a second false negative, and

5) had a follow up positive test.
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jpb1999
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 2:51p, 4/17/20
AG
Duncan Idaho said:
Even scarier is the idea that it reactivates like shingles.

I hope it is as simple as they got reinfected or had a bad test


Or like malaria?
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ramblin_ag02
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2:52p, 4/17/20
AG
Short term reinfection doesn't make any sense. The person got sick and then got better. So their immune system was able to fight off the virus. Once it has done that, then they will continue to be immune for several months at least, but usually for years or more.

Two caveats, if the virus mutates rapidly then they may not be immune to the new version. No data so far to show that happens with this virus. Second, the immune system transitions from IgM to IgG/IgA antibiotics after a few months. It's possible for the IgG/IgA immunity to be less effective than the IgM, but I've never heard of it happening. But even then you'd still get 3-4 months of immunity while IgM is dominant
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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4133
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In reply to oragator • 2:52p, 4/17/20
oragator said:
This has been around for a while, don't know anyone that's panicked over it, but it's important data to know.
Other possibility is that different strains can affect the same person, which would make vaccinations tougher to make I presume.
there have been anecdotes here and there, and some people theorizing, but I haven't really seen any detailed analysis (frankly, it is probably still too early).

again, maybe it is all bad data, but if not, these anecdotes could suggest challenges with respect to vaccinations and/or achieving any sort of herd immunity.
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4133
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In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 2:59p, 4/17/20
this is helpful and is what I'd heard before. that the question is "how long" and not "whether" you receive immunity.

hopefully this is just a case of false negatives or some other testing error.
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ramblin_ag02
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In reply to 4133 • 3:10p, 4/17/20
AG
With viruses there are only 3 outcomes. It kills you, you kill it, or it runs and hides in your DNA. Even when it runs and hides, it's doing that because your immune system is killing it. So it won't reactivate until your immune system is compromised or your immune response to that specific virus wanes decades later. Still no reason to think these people are getting reactivation either
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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eric76
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4:00p, 4/17/20
AG
Of the coronaviruses that cause some colds, they say that the immunity to these coronaviruses typically lasts from 1 to 3 years.

Also, for a mild coronavirus infection, the immunity acquired is apparently less than that from a more severe coronavirus infection. For these people who are being diagnosed with the disease a second time, how severe was infection the first time?
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eric76
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4:05p, 4/17/20
AG
From http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/antibody-tests-may-hold-clues-covid-19-exposure-immunity-its-complicated:
Quote:
The presence of these antibodies, which respond to specific antigens on the surface of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, indicate that a person has been exposed and their immune system has reacted. But does that necessarily mean a person is immune to getting re-infected?

"Often, but not always, the presence of antibodies corresponds to immunity to that agent, and if that turns out to be the case for COVID-19, that would be extremely important," says Storch.

The hope that exposure to SARS-CoV-2 confers some type of immunity is based on the findings of a preprint study from China, in which rhesus monkeys who had been infected and recovered were re-challenged with the virus. The results, which showed no recurrence of COVID-19 in the re-challenged monkeys, suggested some level of protective immunity after infection.

"That's a very encouraging finding, but we don't know yet whether that is true yet in humans, and we certainly don't know how long is the duration of immunity," Storch says.
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Aggie95
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4:55p, 4/17/20
AG
I've heard the virus can lay dormant like HIV and attack when immune system is compromised.

eff this virus!!
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gigemags87
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5:15p, 4/17/20
AG
False positives.

Like any other product, rushing it to market yields more errors/bugs/defects.
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