I miss the good ol days when national calamities brought the populace together.

Actually, overall, it's going OK I guess. It's a tough situation so dissenting viewpoints are to be expected but Americans have adapted drastically, and quickly, as a whole.. But just like with so many other topics I hate the fact we've already come up with "clever" nicknames for those that don't share our opinion, or labeled those with the opposing position "idiots" or "cowards".

Doesnt apply to this thread, it's all the discussions everywhere. Just venting here.

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

This is supposed to be a fact-based board.

---

What part of citing two events that were known to spread the virus to a good number of people isn't fact based?

---

I was referring to the Gupta story, not the cited articles. Sorry for being unclear.

---

Gotcha.

Per the story itself, I feel like at least the discussion of how the virus might spread like this is a pretty relevant topic.

---

It is. I just don't find the A/C infecting a bunch of people credible. And certainly not until we see more than just Chinese propaganda or Sanjay Gupta telling us about it.

People standing close to one another with mouths agape and spit flying? Plausible. A bunch of third-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together? Plausible.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

This is supposed to be a fact-based board.

---

What part of citing two events that were known to spread the virus to a good number of people isn't fact based?

---

I was referring to the Gupta story, not the cited articles. Sorry for being unclear.

---

Gotcha.

Per the story itself, I feel like at least the discussion of how the virus might spread like this is a pretty relevant topic.

---

It is. I just don't find the A/C infecting a bunch of people credible. And certainly not until we see more than just Chinese propaganda or Sanjay Gupta telling us about it.

People standing close to one another with mouths agape and spit flying? Plausible. A bunch of third-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together? Plausible.

---

A bunch of first-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together would also be affected similarly.

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

This is supposed to be a fact-based board.

---

What part of citing two events that were known to spread the virus to a good number of people isn't fact based?

---

I was referring to the Gupta story, not the cited articles. Sorry for being unclear.

---

Gotcha.

Per the story itself, I feel like at least the discussion of how the virus might spread like this is a pretty relevant topic.

---

It is. I just don't find the A/C infecting a bunch of people credible. And certainly not until we see more than just Chinese propaganda or Sanjay Gupta telling us about it.

People standing close to one another with mouths agape and spit flying? Plausible. A bunch of third-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together? Plausible.

---

A bunch of first-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together would also be affected similarly.

---

Sure. Has that happened somewhere?

Quote:

---

Otherwise it is flat attempt of demagoguery (by CNN) to put the nail in the coffin of restaurant owners.

---

These guys are New York based. One of the reasons for putting up with the sh*t you have to in NY are the restaurants there.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

This is supposed to be a fact-based board.

---

What part of citing two events that were known to spread the virus to a good number of people isn't fact based?

---

I was referring to the Gupta story, not the cited articles. Sorry for being unclear.

---

Gotcha.

Per the story itself, I feel like at least the discussion of how the virus might spread like this is a pretty relevant topic.

---

It is. I just don't find the A/C infecting a bunch of people credible. And certainly not until we see more than just Chinese propaganda or Sanjay Gupta telling us about it.

People standing close to one another with mouths agape and spit flying? Plausible. A bunch of third-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together? Plausible.

---

A bunch of first-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together would also be affected similarly.

---

Sure. Has that happened somewhere?

---

200+ workers in a South Dakota pork plant would probably qualify.

Not saying he's right or wrong, but Dr. Gupta lives and practices in Atlanta.

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

This is supposed to be a fact-based board.

---

What part of citing two events that were known to spread the virus to a good number of people isn't fact based?

---

I was referring to the Gupta story, not the cited articles. Sorry for being unclear.

---

Gotcha.

Per the story itself, I feel like at least the discussion of how the virus might spread like this is a pretty relevant topic.

---

It is. I just don't find the A/C infecting a bunch of people credible. And certainly not until we see more than just Chinese propaganda or Sanjay Gupta telling us about it.

People standing close to one another with mouths agape and spit flying? Plausible. A bunch of third-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together? Plausible.

---

A bunch of first-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together would also be affected similarly.

---

Sure. Has that happened somewhere?

---

200+ workers in a South Dakota pork plant would probably qualify.

---

I'm aware of the meat processing plant issues, which are mostly the aforementioned third-worlders. I'm asking about a bunch of first-world workers in America working together, eating together, and infecting one another en masse.

The workers at the big meat packing plants live in the same areas and used the same public transportation. Lots of non- work contact. At work they wear protective gear since they're doing food processing. Calling them third-worlders is unnecessarily insulting but it's a fact that many are immigrants who tend to keep to their own communities after work. So lots of points of possible transmission. Nursing homes are not at all typical of most workplaces since you have a highly susceptible population with lots of influx of new people (visitors, staff and medical personnel) and interaction that requires very close quarters like helping people get dressed, bathe, etc.

What it sounds like you're asking is if a bunch of office workers who spend a lot of time having face to face contact would create a cluster similar to the others. I don't know. I'm not aware of a known cluster that can be traced to a common workplace like that other than the meat packing plants and I honestly don't think the factory was the only source of spread.

call center in Korea

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-1274_article

it seems like the mechanism for super spread is coming more clear

- enclosed spaces
- lots of talking (excessive droplet projection)
- close quarters
- long duration of exposure

grocery stores and retail are okay, especially with masks

sit-down restaurants are much higher risk, same for bars

white collar cube farm offices don't make a ton of sense if you can work from home

That's been my sense as well as this unfolds. The strongest transmission seems to be talking and face to face contact, In relatively close quarters. And the longer it's sustained (subway car, sitting next to each other at a meal) the higher the probability.

Voice projection events where people are singing and yelling in close proximity (even outdoors) also seem like they would be more likely than say all being in a park together with decent distances and no yelling or voice projection. Which makes things interesting for sports once we open up more completely.

Yup, I would tend to agree based on everything we know at this point.

Somewhat related, I think the effect this has on remote work overall is going to be really interesting. A whole lot of companies that have always said they could never work remotely have suddenly figured out that they can.

Ribbed Paultz said:

---

This mechanism of super spreading put forth by Dr. Gupta certainly seems plausible at this point.

---

Except that it isn't being put forward by him. He is parroting a publication produced by the CCP. Do you believe the infection numbers from Beijing?

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

fig96 said:

---

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

This is supposed to be a fact-based board.

---

What part of citing two events that were known to spread the virus to a good number of people isn't fact based?

---

I was referring to the Gupta story, not the cited articles. Sorry for being unclear.

---

Gotcha.

Per the story itself, I feel like at least the discussion of how the virus might spread like this is a pretty relevant topic.

---

It is. I just don't find the A/C infecting a bunch of people credible. And certainly not until we see more than just Chinese propaganda or Sanjay Gupta telling us about it.

People standing close to one another with mouths agape and spit flying? Plausible. A bunch of third-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together? Plausible.

---

A bunch of first-world folks working very closely together for 8+ hours and eating in the break room together would also be affected similarly.

---

Sure. Has that happened somewhere?

---

200+ workers in a South Dakota pork plant would probably qualify.

---

I'm aware of the meat processing plant issues, which are mostly the aforementioned third-worlders. I'm asking about a bunch of first-world workers in America working together, eating together, and infecting one another en masse.

---

So someone working in an American factory working to produce products going to American supermarkets that may be an immigrant is a "third-worlder"? What a disgusting thing to say.

---

If they're from the third world, they're a third worlder. That's a precise descriptor, not disgusting. I wasn't making some grand racial proclamation. Not sure what else to tell you about it.

I'll let you in on a little secret: people from the third world are less likely to follow the same health/safety standards as first world people, to include social distancing recommendations. There are lots of reasons for that, but it's true.

Exactly. There is often a difference in how people live that is because of how/where they grew up.

JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:

---

Where does calling other Americans "third worlders" fall in the "science and facts" realm?

If you are going to say something like that you should be ready to handle the blowback.

---

I'm not talking about Americans. I am talking about people from the third world. That's why I chose that phrase. They're not all from the same country, but they are from the third world. They're imported labor. And it doesn't justify personal attacks on me. Quit looking for things to be offended about.

JP_Losman said:

---

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/04/21/coronavirus-spread-restaurant-seating-sanjay-gupta-newday-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/

On one hand this seems ludicrous that 8 people could be infected by being in the same restaurant w one infected
person. However, the logic here, assuming the evidence is right, is that the virus is so highly contagious that it makes it overwhelmingly believable that results of antibody tests that imply an infection rate of 30-40% of general population are spot on.

Otherwise it is flat attempt of demagoguery (by CNN) to put the nail in the coffin of restaurant owners.

Not sure they expect anyone to follow the logic of the claims.

---

Where have you seen an antibody test result that suggests 30-40% of the population have antibodies.

Santa Clara California study was closer to 2%.
NY where they have had a big infection was 1/5 or 20%. And Cuomo spelled out the sample bias, so 20% is likely an over estimate.
Studies in Texas are 2% or less.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/homeless-shelter-finds-36-percent-of-visitors-test-positive-nearly-all-asymptomatic

Have they shown spread on a South Texas beach at 90 degrees, 60% humidity, and a 15 mph wind?

I didn't think so.

How about a golf course with those conditions.....

I didn't think so.

A city park?

I didn't think so.

JP_Losman said:

---

https://www.dailywire.com/news/homeless-shelter-finds-36-percent-of-visitors-test-positive-nearly-all-asymptomatic

---

Do you really think a homeless shelter is representative of the overall population? A bunch of people living. In close contact without the ability to social distance?

BiochemAg97 said:

---

JP_Losman said:

---

https://www.dailywire.com/news/homeless-shelter-finds-36-percent-of-visitors-test-positive-nearly-all-asymptomatic

---

Do you really think a homeless shelter is representative of the overall population? A bunch of people living. In close contact without the ability to social distance?

---

Why not? NYC seems to be the example that all projections are based on.....

Ribbed Paultz said:

---

normaleagle05 said:

---

Ribbed Paultz said:

---

This mechanism of super spreading put forth by Dr. Gupta certainly seems plausible at this point.

---

Except that it isn't being put forward by him. He is parroting a publication produced by the CCP. Do you believe the infection numbers from Beijing?

---

Do you believe that Dr. Sanjay Gupta, a world renowned neurosurgeon and journalist, hasn't done his own research h and can't think for himself?

---

You mean the guy in the OP's link stating ambiguously "this is on the CDC's website." Yeah it is, the CDC of the CCP. I'm sure he can think for himself but I don't see evidence that he has.

Do you believe the infection numbers from Beijing? That's where his restaurant study came from.

B-1 83 said:

---

BiochemAg97 said:

---

JP_Losman said:

---

https://www.dailywire.com/news/homeless-shelter-finds-36-percent-of-visitors-test-positive-nearly-all-asymptomatic

---

Do you really think a homeless shelter is representative of the overall population? A bunch of people living. In close contact without the ability to social distance?

---

Why not? NYC seems to be the example that all projections are based on.....

---

Well, I have issues with that too, but that is another thread.

jenn96 said:

---

Measles is insane. It has an RO of 18!!! I read an article about it when this all started about how measles spreads - it is literally a perfect infectious disease from an evolutionary standpoint.

---

While a recruit in boot camp in San Diego, I got the measles!

Only one of 8,000 !

BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:

---

jenn96 said:

---

Measles is insane. It has an RO of 18!!! I read an article about it when this all started about how measles spreads - it is literally a perfect infectious disease from an evolutionary standpoint.

---

While a recruit in boot camp in San Diego, I got the measles!

Only one of 8,000 !

---

IIRC, Measles is also truly airborne rather than droplet spread, meaning one kid in school could expose everyone in their class, but every kid who walked down the same hallway, which could be the whole school.

On the other hand, when the vaccines were being developed in the 60s, Europe and the US had medical care making it much less lethal and it was viewed as a fact of childhood. While everyone worked diligently on developing vaccines, the US had political reasons for accelerating the timeline, but Europe did not feel pressured to hurry things along.