Can anybody confidently answer this question about transmission?

3,429 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Capitol Ag
GE
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8:17a, 5/6/20
AG
Asked about a similar scenario a month ago and answers were entirely at odds with one another.

A COVID positive person coughs into their hand at a grocery store and then opens a freezer door with that hand.

I open the same door grabbing the now-dry handle 15 minutes later.

Continuing on my shopping trip, I open three or four more doors with the same hand, pickup and put down a watermelon, and checkout, swiping my credit card.

I then exit the store,drive home, go inside, unload the groceries and wash my hands.

What is the likelihood that each of the following items had enough of the virus on it to actually infect somebody as a result of the guy touching the freezer door handle:
1. The freezer door handle right after the COVID+ guy grabbed it
2. The freezer door handle when I grabbed it
3. The other door handles I touched throughout the store
4.- The watermelon I picked up
5. The credit card machine where I swiped
6. My shopping cart handle
7. My car door handles
8. My steering wheel
9. The doorknob to my house

My intuition says should probably be somewhat concerned about the door handle carrying enough live virus to be problematic right after the guy touches it, but the concern decreases pretty rapidly with the passage of time and the more it gets diluted through being spread across the various items.
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Demo_Slug
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9:12a, 5/6/20
AG
Wash your hands. Don't touch your face.
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Duncan Idaho
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9:25a, 5/6/20


But yes, if everyone would wear a ****ing mask and wash their damn hands we could push the R0 to <1 all while going to work and spending money.

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cone
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In reply to GE • 9:31a, 5/6/20
AG
I wipe down all my groceries when I get home with lysol and I wipe down my car steering wheel with a lysol wipe

and I change clothes and shower
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JP_Losman
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9:39a, 5/6/20
AG
open all your windows and go without A/C in this Texas heat.
Guarantee that will help!
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JP_Losman
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9:41a, 5/6/20
AG
actually thought that is a very good near term solution for church gatherings.
Have outside or in pavilions.
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CDub06
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9:54a, 5/6/20
AG
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwnb5/coronavirus-should-i-disinfect
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Aggie95
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In reply to Duncan Idaho • 10:00a, 5/6/20
AG
how do you wear a mask and eat at a restaurant?
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GE
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10:48a, 5/6/20
AG
First three responses are totally off topic and nonresponsive
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Diggity
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10:55a, 5/6/20
AG
Cone and Duncan should just merge into one account for the duration of this pandemic. Would save precious space on the TexAgs servers.
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heineman78
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11:10a, 5/6/20
Well the correct answer to the question, is to go wipe your hands on all of Duncan's doorknobs, car handles, etc...
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heineman78
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In reply to CDub06 • 11:32a, 5/6/20
CDub06 said:
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwnb5/coronavirus-should-i-disinfect


I listened to that a couple weeks ago. Very informative.

Basically what I got out of it, was, it doesn't hurt to disinfect things but a lot of things have to fall into place to get infected from just touching something.

Wash your hands and don't touch your face.
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AggieOO
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In reply to Diggity • 11:35a, 5/6/20
Diggity said:
Cone and Duncan should just merge into one account for the duration of this pandemic. Would save precious space on the TexAgs servers.
if we are going to do that, can we have all the "muh freedoms, MERICA!" crowd merged too?

Would be great to filter out both extremes so we can have a conversation somewhere in the middle.
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Diggity
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:36a, 5/6/20
AG
fine by me.
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heineman78
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In reply to AggieOO • 11:56a, 5/6/20
AggieOO said:
Diggity said:
Cone and Duncan should just merge into one account for the duration of this pandemic. Would save precious space on the TexAgs servers.
if we are going to do that, can we have all the "muh freedoms, MERICA!" crowd merged too?

Would be great to filter out both extremes so we can have a conversation somewhere in the middle.
Sounds like a plan. The most idiotic on both sides tend to have the loudest voices.
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GE
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In reply to heineman78 • 11:58a, 5/6/20
AG
heineman78 said:
CDub06 said:
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwnb5/coronavirus-should-i-disinfect
I listened to that a couple weeks ago. Very informative.

Basically what I got out of it, was, it doesn't hurt to disinfect things but a lot of things have to fall into place to get infected from just touching something.

Wash your hands and don't touch your face.
Will try to listen later. What I'm getting at is what are reasonable steps people should be taking? Understand don't touch your face and wash your hands, but over what time period does the virus last and how transmissible is it to object to object via hand washing? That should give some indication of the frequency with which we need to wash our hands.

If I know that touching a doorknob with the virus on it can result in every other thing I touch prior to washing my hands carrying for hours sufficient virus to get somebody sick, I wash much more frequently than if the primary concern is touching something with the virus on it and then sticking my finger in my nose or eye.
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cone
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In reply to GE • 12:09p, 5/6/20
AG
my take is you want your house to be your safe space where you don't even have to really think about it

so ymmv on what that level of decontam buys you peace of mind
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JD Shellnut
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12:33p, 5/6/20
AG
I wipe down milk or anything that needs to be refrigerated. Things like cereal and TV dinners, I remove from its outer packaging. Other items like a bottle of ketchup that I may not need right then, I leave sitting in a corner for 3 days, so that any covid virus would be dead by then and then I place those items in the pantry.
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GE
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In reply to JD Shellnut • 12:53p, 5/6/20
AG
Drifter. said:
I wipe down milk or anything that needs to be refrigerated. Things like cereal and TV dinners, I remove from its outer packaging. Other items like a bottle of ketchup that I may not need right then, I leave sitting in a corner for 3 days, so that any covid virus would be dead by then and then I place those items in the pantry.
My wife has been doing something similar and my suspicion is that it's overkill.
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Inca
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1:05p, 5/6/20
AG
We unload our groceries from the car and put them up as normal.

I'm using curbside but obviously other people have touched everything. Only difference is I'm not touching anything in the store.

I am not sure anyone really knows the answer to your questions, other than the first one. But I don't think 15 minutes is nearly long enough for the handle COVID positive guy touched to become uninfected.
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California Ag 90
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8:09p, 5/6/20
AG
my takeaway from the OP is that it reinforces the notion of 'everybody shutdown except for essential activities' -like grocery shopping at a supermarket where the community leaves their home, converges and touches things with repetitive frequency, then goes back home - has never made a damned bit of sense.

and when it is all said and done years from now and the books on this madness are written, we will have discovered that grocery stores and food delivery services basically made lockdown meaningless - everybody eventually got exposed anyway.

Cuomo is now on this voyage of discovery in NY as he finds that most new cases were contracted by good citizens following all his absurd rules by staying home and letting the virus be delivered to their doorstep with their pizza.
We're from North California, and South Alabam
and little towns all around this land...
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AggieDruggist89
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8:50a, 5/9/20
AG
Not sure confident but SARS-COV-2 infection is enhanced by respiratory tract protease clipping of mono and polybasic binding sites of viral spike glycoprotein S2. This is a typical viral infection mechanism including avian flu and influenza..

Hence drugs targeting Covid 19 are focused on Protease Inhibitors such as plasminogen. However serum plasmin is involved with fibronolysis and blood clotting cascade. Perhaps this is why we are seeing requirements for anticoagulation in these patient as plasmin is now binding to virus instead of coagulastasis.

We've had some successes in treating and curing viral infections through protease inhibitor route such as Hepatitis C and HIV control.

Yet we cant treat a common cold and Influenza treatment in my opinion is a mild success.

Where do we go from here... Specific Protease Inhibitor like remdesivir seems promising but this is not the silver bullet as overwhelming inflammatory host responses make it difficult to completely treat these patients especially with comorbid conditions.

Vaccine? Maybe..

Open up the country. We were never in danger of runnjng out of inpatient capacity. In the US, we have 2.8 hospital beds per 1000 patients. We only need 1.2 to 1.4 beds. This is a Healthcare and public and population health issue not political.

OK, maybe wrong thread.
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Capitol Ag
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In reply to GE • 9:07a, 5/9/20
AG
GE said:
Drifter. said:
I wipe down milk or anything that needs to be refrigerated. Things like cereal and TV dinners, I remove from its outer packaging. Other items like a bottle of ketchup that I may not need right then, I leave sitting in a corner for 3 days, so that any covid virus would be dead by then and then I place those items in the pantry.
My wife has been doing something similar and my suspicion is that it's overkill.


With you on this. I just can't be that OCD I used to be. Hell, in middle school or early HS I got into a hand washing obsession that would rival Howard Hughes. Luckily for me, I was able to over come it once I recognized what I was doing.
The fact is we just need to use common sense. It's something we always should have done. Period. Cough into sleeves but expect others not to. As such don't touch your face and wash your hands. I still feel masks and gloves are over kill as it doesn't really protect the average non medical staffers like us. Most are not washing the masks and replacing the masks and gloves as we haven't been trained how to. I've been on an immunosuppressant since 2007, and I've just learned to be aware and careful. I don't really even use hand sanitizer. Nothing beats soap and hot water. Nothing. There's even no need to wipe everything down when you get home. Maybe a few things sure. But you can become so fixated on that nothing else gets done. Just having more awareness of situations (not just during a pandemic-even when it's just flu and cold season) can make all the difference in not contracting the virus. Us folks on immunosuppressants kinda laugh at this situation b/c it's like us when we first started using the medication. Super careful. Than you adapt and realize you don't have to burn your clothes after every trip to a store or scrub your hands until they bleed. You do not even need a mask. Just use combo sense.
Before the "you have to wear a mask" folks chime in, those of us on immunosuppressants are more likely to show signs of contracting the virus well b4 14 days. You know, b/c of the immunosuppressant we are on. It's actually kinda nice. If have contact with those with any virus, if I show no signs after 5 days, most likely in the clear.
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