The chickenpox vaccine has only been in mainstream use in the US since the mid 90s. Before that, you either had already had chickenpox, or were likely to get it the next time it started making the rounds. It absolutely sucked going through it, and there were cases that were more severe, requiring hospitalization or occasionally resulting in death. Getting chickenpox as adult was typically thought of as more dangerous than getting it as a child. Those who were immunocompromised were a much higher risk when getting the disease. I can't find any data specifically on the elderly--I'm guessing mainly because if you made it to your 70s or 80s, you had likely already had chickenpox in your lifetime. There were even "chickenpox parties", where parents would bring their children to be near someone with the virus so their child could catch it, and build his/her immunity.

Obviously, COVID-19 being a novel virus is significantly different from chickenpox with none of the population having any prior immunity. I'm aware the fatality and transmission rates are significantly different as well--not trying to downplay the seriousness of the COVID-19 virus by any stretch of the imagination.

Does COVID-19 really boil down to -- you either have had it, or you will get it? If so, assuming you are not immunocompromised or have other comorbidities, does it really matter if you get it this week vs next week vs next year? Does anyone think coronavirus parties will become a thing?

I know the COVID-19/chickenpox is not a perfect analogy, but it does seem to have quite a few similarities in my layman's opinion. Thoughts?

Eh, I'd like some kind of treatment if possible, as long as the cost to the economy isn't greater. Our medical supply chains are still recovering, docs and nurses have been working like crazy for a couple months and could use a little reprieve, etc.

I imagine I'll be exposed and maybe get sick before vaccine is a reality. I'm ok with that because I have no reason to believe I'm at higher risk for complications. That said, if I can make it easier on myself and family, I'll try to.

3rd Generation Ag said:

---

Chicken pox is not all that simple. My son had a terrible case as a baby with just about every complication in the books. As as adult he has had to deal with shingles...a lingering gift from the chicken pox he had while in diapers. He had chicken pox inside his orifices for example. His first shingles attack he had to be kept sedated the pain was so great. He had them inside his through and inside his rectum as well as on trunk, neck, head.

A better comparison might be mumps.

Back in the day before a vaccine, it was normally really mild in young children so parents tried to get you to have them.

Expecially for males it had really back side effects if you were a little older when you caught them. So when parents heard of a case of mumps they would intentionally take their six and under kids over to get exposed and actually hoped it took.

As far as I know this did not reoccur in a different form as an adult.

---

I knew a guy who got the mumps as an adult. His balls swelled up so much that I can't imagine how he was able to get up and go to the bathroom.

Had shingles last year (where the dormant chickenpox virus comes back to life). For two months. It, and the strong anti-virals were pretty rough. I hope to God there isn't a "come back later" version of COVID.

And yes, I was stupid not to get the shingles vaccine. Really stupid.

Going through shingles right now. At this point I'd rather take my chances with COVID-19.

So true, good points. I fear shingles in a big way, had my first outbreak in my early 30's and it was terrible. Had a much more severe one about 15 years later and it stopped me cold for several days. The last one I felt coming on and I honest to God believe I willed it away with only minor effects. I just didn't want to suffer like that.

I need to look into the vaccine. I was out of the country for the most part and it was never offered.

my doc told me the prior vaccine was not very good, The new one is much much better.

Interesting to add measles and mumps into the discussion. Sounds similar in that many cases were "mild" (meaning no imminent danger of death or long term damage), with a few causes that were more severe (up to and including death). Seems like COVID-19 has a similar progression--many have mild cases, and there are a few more severe and dire cases.

Until the vaccines were invented and tested for the above, they were all in the "you either have already had it, or you were going to get it".

Also interesting to bring shingles in--I don't think anyone has determined the long term effect of COVID-19. Is this more like measles or mumps, where it is one-and-done, or more like chickenpox, where the immunity can wear off after a while and come back for a second round.....

Isn't an argument against the wide use of the chicken pox vaccine that people are more likely to get shingles later because they are not exposed to chicken pox in the outside world that allows your immune system to get a natural booster shot.

not a DR but know more than i would like about the pox. my understanding is just the opposite, if you are an adult and did not have CP ( i have been told ) get the vaccination, the vaccination does not lead to getting the shingles AND if you have not had the CP you can become infected with CP from somebody who has an active Shingles outbreak. Spouse came down with CP a few years ago ( we first thought it was bedbugs we were at a hotel ) it was a non-issue but quite tense for several weeks. The CP can get in the blood or the lungs if that happens you end up in the hospital and possibly the morque.

most of this i learned after the spouse got the CP and asked some questions and did some research. I have had one shingles outbreak and regularly would ask my GP about the vaccination. I got the new Shingrix shot last year my Dr did not recommend the prior vaccine

Wife got shingles. Anyone that has had chicken pox is at risk for shingles. It sucks.

I will share that with my wife shes dragging her feet on getting the shingrix shot, i had not heard that fevers and chills were common with the shingrix , i was fortunate and had no issues

3rd Generation Ag said:

---

Chicken pox is not all that simple. My son had a terrible case as a baby with just about every complication in the books. As as adult he has had to deal with shingles...a lingering gift from the chicken pox he had while in diapers. He had chicken pox inside his orifices for example. His first shingles attack he had to be kept sedated the pain was so great. He had them inside his through and inside his rectum as well as on trunk, neck, head.

A better comparison might be mumps.

Back in the day before a vaccine, it was normally really mild in young children so parents tried to get you to have them.

Expecially for males it had really back side effects if you were a little older when you caught them. So when parents heard of a case of mumps they would intentionally take their six and under kids over to get exposed and actually hoped it took.

As far as I know this did not reoccur in a different form as an adult.

---

Fact.

My brother just had shingles and it seems pretty terrible to deal with

Quote:

---

This is correct. Previous vaccine was 60% effective. New one (Shingrix I believe) is 95+% effective. Only problem is new one is two shots six months apart and about 20% have a strong reaction - nothing ER level but 36-48 hours of fever, aches, chills (just like bad flu) - enough to keep you in bed. Second shot not so bad. The two days of flu-like feeling like **** is nothing compared to the shingles so it's worth it. Having been shot, had pancreatitis, and had the shingles, they're all in the same pain level. Bad enough I was put on Oxy.

If you've up ever had the chicken pox - get the new shingles vaccine! Do f around and put if off - seriously!

---

Man, you just gave me chills. I am chicken sheet compared to you I believe, and this vaccine frightens me some. The one US physician I talked to about it basically said the same thing you did, but she said that some of the reactions pretty damm harsh and hospitalized some folks.

I have had 2.75 outbreaks in about 20 years and I believe I have gotten to the point where I can feel them coming on, at least the last one I did. What triggers it for me appears to be a lot of sun/sunburn, fatigue, and stress. The last time I got them hard in Nicaragua my back and armpits looked like a combination blister field and 8 shot shotgun shell target.

The doc I went to down there shot me up with something, said it wasn't an antibiotic and sent me to a hospital to buy some generic mixed up salve that really helped. And I started drinking a lot of rum so I could sleep.

RGV AG said:

---

Quote:

---

This is correct. Previous vaccine was 60% effective. New one (Shingrix I believe) is 95+% effective. Only problem is new one is two shots six months apart and about 20% have a strong reaction - nothing ER level but 36-48 hours of fever, aches, chills (just like bad flu) - enough to keep you in bed. Second shot not so bad. The two days of flu-like feeling like **** is nothing compared to the shingles so it's worth it. Having been shot, had pancreatitis, and had the shingles, they're all in the same pain level. Bad enough I was put on Oxy.

If you've up ever had the chicken pox - get the new shingles vaccine! Do f around and put if off - seriously!

---

Man, you just gave me chills. I am chicken sheet compared to you I believe, and this vaccine frightens me some. The one US physician I talked to about it basically said the same thing you did, but she said that some of the reactions pretty damm harsh and hospitalized some folks.

I have had 2.75 outbreaks in about 20 years and I believe I have gotten to the point where I can feel them coming on, at least the last one I did. What triggers it for me appears to be a lot of sun/sunburn, fatigue, and stress. The last time I got them hard in Nicaragua my back and armpits looked like a combination blister field and 8 shot shotgun shell target.

The doc I went to down there shot me up with something, said it wasn't an antibiotic and sent me to a hospital to buy some generic mixed up salve that really helped. And I started drinking a lot of rum so I could sleep.

---

Sounds like you really should get the Shingrix if you've already had outbreaks. Yes, there is a very very slight chance it could send someone to the hospital but no more than any vaccine. What got me was no one told me about the flu like day or two so in June so I was really surprised at a 102 fever at 5 am - called my doc who's a friend at 8 am Saturday morning and he said it was the vaccine. Just ruined the weekend but still nothing compared to an outbreak of shingles.

Stress/fatigue are factors - my daughter had a couple outbreaks due to it. My outbreak was after I had an infection that caused some pneumonia (no hospital) so my immune system was weakened which allows the virus to come out of hibernation. Mine also was back and armpit - if I hadn't been given the Oxy I would have used rum, scotch, tequila, gin, moonshine, ...

How old are ya'll (generally)? I thought you couldn't get the shingles vaccine til you were a certain age. I had bad chickenpox and and terrified of shingles but I thought my doctor told me I was too young at my last checkup (when I was 44 or so).

I will apologize in advance for sounding flippant
being able to get it and having insurance pay for it are two different questions ?
it is likely given the generally mediocre efficacy of the prior vaccine Drs were reluctant to give it because it just did not work well.

I am mid 50's dr gave me the shingrix said he thought insurance would cover it but was not certain. Dr told me worst case scenario i would be on the hook for $600

My intention has been to ask for the shingles vaccine the next time I'm at the doctor and not sick at the time.

My last doctor's visit, I was sick and didn't bother to ask for vaccines. You don't want to get a vaccine when your immunity is down.

The time before, I got the influenza vaccine in one arm and the second of the two bacterial pneumonia vaccines in the other arm.

Good point on getting it vs insurance paying for it, and maybe that's what my doc meant. I'll clarify at my next checkup.

tysker said:

---

Isn't an argument against the wide use of the chicken pox vaccine that people are more likely to get shingles later because they are not exposed to chicken pox in the outside world that allows your immune system to get a natural booster shot.

---

I've heard that argument but it's a stupid one.

You get the shingles from the chicken pox itself. Chicken pox in the "outside world" gives you shingles, NOT the vaccine.

The shingles vaccine is necessary if you've had chicken pox as a kid and want to protect yourself from it.


On the topic of chicken pox, I was one who had a horrible case. Pox inside everywhere, horribly sick for a couple of weeks. It's a bad disease in some people. I got my daughter the vaccine the minute it came out and got both kinds of shingles vaccines as early as possible. I do not want the shingles.


On topic: I hope the COVID provides that kind of lasting immunity, but I don't think we know if immunity even lasts a year yet, do we?

We may need an annual vaccine for it. I think most people would rather vaccinate against it than go through it and risk all the complications from it (aside from the anti-vaxers, of course).

jenn96 said:

---

How old are ya'll (generally)? I thought you couldn't get the shingles vaccine til you were a certain age. I had bad chickenpox and and terrified of shingles but I thought my doctor told me I was too young at my last checkup (when I was 44 or so).

---

I begged my doctor to let me get it before I turned 50. My best friend from high school was going through it and I was terrified of it because of my bad experience with Chicken Pox. He wrote the Rx, but the insurance wouldn't pay for it, so I paid the $250 out of pocket. Money well spent, imho.

Then when the new version of the vaccine came out I got both doses of that, too, but I had turned 50 by then so my insurance covered it.

eric76 said:

---

My intention has been to ask for the shingles vaccine the next time I'm at the doctor and not sick at the time.

My last doctor's visit, I was sick and didn't bother to ask for vaccines. You don't want to get a vaccine when your immunity is down.

The time before, I got the influenza vaccine in one arm and the second of the two bacterial pneumonia vaccines in the other arm.

---

I got my initial shot at CVS, and then at my normal checkup i was given the second. In fact Insurance had sent the Doctor the record of my first shot. My wife got hers at HEB.

Shingles vaccines are reccomended for anyone over 50, but yes, unfortunately you can get it younger, and there was a study awhile ago showing it was on the rise in folks in their 30s. Colleague of mine had it in his late 20s. I imagine if ypu has reason to think you could get it, your doc would write a script.

I honestly think I was lucky...two months, but I never got the stabbing burning pain. Just felt like the flu that just wouldn't go away. For two months.

It is in the rise in 30 something's, I know because I had it last year on my face and it was torture. It's been known that there's a link to stress causing shingles outbreaks. Some theorize the rise is due to the 24hr work cycle (phones, never able to get away while simultaneously raising kids etc). I can anecdotally confirm this based on my stress level at that time.

I've heard the stress theory before, seems plausible.

Since everyone is talking about immunity re COVID, another fun factoid: getting shingles lowers your chance of getting it again, and usually it's not as awful the next time. That said, cousin of mine got it three times. He finally got the vaccine.

And this is why public health folks are suggesting hoping COVID herd immunity happens without a vaccine is likely a pipe dream.

I have had that crap 2X for sure and felt it coming on another time. First time I had it I was 32, next time about 43 and felt it coming on about 3 years ago at 49.

Stress absolutely has something to do with it, in my personal situation all the times I have had it or about to have had it I had serious sun exposure previously, like in the previous 2-3 days.

It is miserable, the second time I had the shingles was the worst and really laid me out.

My recollection is wondering when the anti-viral meds would start to work or whether they worked at all. Did they reduce the outbreak from three months to two? No idea. I got better, I assume they worked.

And I suspect this will be our quickest bandaid for COVID: something, combo of things that stops the virus from replicating.