recycled air and the spread

3,892 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Iowaggie
gonemaroon
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6:29a, 6/25/20
AG
People aren't talking about it very much but it has to be recycled air and being close to people indoors that allow Covid-19 to spread like gangbusters.

When it was cold in the north it blew out while folks weren't on lock down still mingling then it trickled through lock down until it snuffed out. It was mild spring in south and restaurants were partially open in places and it wasn't until it got hot it spread significantly - it's the warm states that all reopened with air conditioning on exploding. During this same time the temps went to mum in the north as did the cases.

I'm fairly certain it's people indoors with air recycling on high. I could be wrong, but Europe is having the most mild spring and summer there and folks are able to be outdoors and it's trickling not exploding. One of my GF's lives in Munich and she told me that restaurants are only allowed to serve outside seating and that air conditioners are forbidden in public areas - so basically they are forcing fresh air only while it's not hot outside and the cases are basically going down. Their lives are heading towards normal quickly. Same as north here when when it was cold out the cases were exploding there.

There's a ton of air conditioning and spread articles that I've read - just observation there has to be something to it. Can't avoid the air in the summer time south so we'll see what happens.

This is an article from May but I enjoyed the education when it came out

https://erinbromage.wixsite.com/covid19/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them
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Keegan99
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2:27p, 6/25/20
AG
The post is absolutely on target.



A database of SSEs (Super Spreading Events) shows that 97% (!) are indoors.


We need to rethink HVAC. Introduce more outside air, HEPA filters, UV treatments, etc.
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BowSowy
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2:46p, 6/25/20
AG
Okay, I'm fine wearing my mask even when it's hot and uncomfortable. But if you take away my AC, that's a whole different ball game.

Interesting article, though. It makes a lot of sense, to me. I've generally been trying to avoid indoor areas where I'm in close proximity to someone for this reason.
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deadbq03
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3:00p, 6/25/20
AG
The easier answer is to keep AC systems the way they are and make sure the super spreader is wearing a mask.
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KALALL
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3:07p, 6/25/20
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As an air filter manufacturer I think everyone should start buying Merv 13 filters for their commercial buildings. Though personally, I don't think many virus droplets are making it into returns especially in big buildings where returns are 20' in the air.
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tysker
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3:26p, 6/25/20
AG
Recycled air is why I think COVID hit NYC so hard. The air pumped through subway trains and along the subway lines is, well, kinda gross. When walking street level you can even tell which grates are subway air exits just from the smell and feel.
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Keegan99
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In reply to tysker • 3:33p, 6/25/20
AG
tysker said:
Recycled air is why I think COVID hit NYC so hard. The air pumped through subway trains and along the subway lines is, well, kinda gross. When walking street level you can even tell which grates are subway air exits just from the smell and feel.

Have also seen theories that shared plumbing in apartment buildings could have led to aerosol spread.
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agforlife97
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In reply to Keegan99 • 3:35p, 6/25/20
AG
Keegan99 said:
tysker said:
Recycled air is why I think COVID hit NYC so hard. The air pumped through subway trains and along the subway lines is, well, kinda gross. When walking street level you can even tell which grates are subway air exits just from the smell and feel.

Have also seen theories that shared plumbing in apartment buildings could have led to aerosol spread.
Isn't it wild though that we're still speculating about it 4 months in? There's not very much hard data on how people are getting it, which makes the policy responses kind of random.
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HotardAg07
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3:41p, 6/25/20
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Yes, people have been saying for a while that all of the super spreader events are:
  • Indoors
  • Sustained contact for more than 10 minutes
  • Loud talking, singing, shouting, sneezing or coughing
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Keegan99
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3:49p, 6/25/20
AG


Poster from Japan, which pretty much beat this thing 77-0.

This is also why bars are especially terrible.
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tysker
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In reply to Keegan99 • 4:48p, 6/25/20
AG
Keegan99 said:
tysker said:
Recycled air is why I think COVID hit NYC so hard. The air pumped through subway trains and along the subway lines is, well, kinda gross. When walking street level you can even tell which grates are subway air exits just from the smell and feel.

Have also seen theories that shared plumbing in apartment buildings could have led to aerosol spread.

Interesting. Pretty sure one of our apartments had a radiator for heat with water supplied from a rooftop water tower. Not sure if the water was recycled within the system or what.
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gonemaroon
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In reply to BowSowy • 6:36a, 6/26/20
AG
Right on, in the south we cannot go without air conditioning - not advocating turning it off just educating people not to hang out in close quarters in recycled air - IF this is accurate.
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gonemaroon
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In reply to HotardAg07 • 6:36a, 6/26/20
AG
Loud talking as in protesting and screaming at someone two inches from their face?
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Kyle Field Shade Chaser
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7:19a, 6/26/20
AG
I can reference youth sports with the reopening. At basketball (Indoors) there have been multiple youth positives since Reopening.

At baseball I have not yet heard of one positive. Kids are playing a lot of baseball now. I'm sure there is but not as prevalent.
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to Keegan99 • 7:43a, 6/26/20
Keegan99 said:
tysker said:
Recycled air is why I think COVID hit NYC so hard. The air pumped through subway trains and along the subway lines is, well, kinda gross. When walking street level you can even tell which grates are subway air exits just from the smell and feel.

Have also seen theories that shared plumbing in apartment buildings could have led to aerosol spread.

If shared plumbing in apartment buildings was a likely culprit you would see many more hotspots in other areas that center around apartment complexes.
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Counterpoint
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In reply to Keegan99 • 5:53p, 6/26/20
AG
Keegan99 said:


which pretty much beat this thing 77-0.

Too soon!
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Dr. Maturin
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In reply to Kyle Field Shade Chaser • 8:18p, 6/26/20
Motracicletraficificker said:
I can reference youth sports with the reopening. At basketball (Indoors) there have been multiple youth positives since Reopening.

At baseball I have not yet heard of one positive. Kids are playing a lot of baseball now. I'm sure there is but not as prevalent.
I think there will be. At my son's baseball games people have been crowding into the small stands instead of bringing chairs or standing up. This is 7-8 year old baseball by the way. I've been very surprised at how casually people have interacted including grandparents.
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Iowaggie
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In reply to tysker • 9:02p, 6/26/20
AG
tysker said:
Recycled air is why I think COVID hit NYC so hard. The air pumped through subway trains and along the subway lines is, well, kinda gross. When walking street level you can even tell which grates are subway air exits just from the smell and feel.

And if you think of it, the time of year to be inside in Arizona started a few weeks ago, and they had their spike.
Florida to Texas could be outside a for the last few weeks, but the heat is pushing more people inside, and it isn't surprising that there would be spikes there, and gradually working it's way north.
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texan12
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In reply to Dr. Maturin • 9:24p, 6/26/20
Dr. Maturin said:
Motracicletraficificker said:
I can reference youth sports with the reopening. At basketball (Indoors) there have been multiple youth positives since Reopening.

At baseball I have not yet heard of one positive. Kids are playing a lot of baseball now. I'm sure there is but not as prevalent.
I think there will be. At my son's baseball games people have been crowding into the small stands instead of bringing chairs or standing up. This is 7-8 year old baseball by the way. I've been very surprised at how casually people have interacted including grandparents.
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TMfrisco
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11:09a, 6/29/20
AG
I truly believe the spikes in the south are coming from people heading back inside because of the heat and not so much from protests or other activities. The recycled air in buildings can't be good.
I work outside for most of the day and am not particularly worried, but I see people are now being forced back inside. The spikes in the south look a lot like the spikes in the NE due to cold weather in the spring. Now that they are having more moderate weather and aren't all clustered inside, their numbers are declining.
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TexasAggie008
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11:52a, 6/29/20
AG
So common sense would say

- get out of the house whenever possible as long as it's to be somewhere outdoors

- outdoor patios at both bars and restaurants = fine, as long as common sense "stay at your own table" is followed

- pool, park, floating the river (but not riding in a crowded shuttle) = fine

Right ?
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TMfrisco
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1:34p, 6/29/20
AG
Don't know if we are "right". But, it sure seems that once people are confined indoors with each other - that's when the spread starts.
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Milwaukees Best Light
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1:42p, 6/29/20
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Where do your other girlfriends live? How do you find the time and money to keep more than 1 happy?
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Geop84
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In reply to Milwaukees Best Light • 2:35p, 6/29/20
AG
Milwaukees Best Light said:
Where do your other girlfriends live? How do you find the time and money to keep more than 1 happy?

Thank you. I was wondering why nobody else picked up on this important part of the post.
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Iowaggie
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3:52p, 8/23/20
AG
Just to add updated research on this.


Air conditioned rooms reduce humidity, allowing droplets to last in air longer, float farther, and are more likely to be inhaled.

Higher humidity (40% at least) means potential less Covid spread and when it is flu season, less flu transmission.
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