Just had a new low in the Coronavirus era this afternoon. Our office has a mask policy that all patients need to wear a mask unless they have a specific medical condition that will not allow them to wear one. We will provide them with a mask if they show up without one, but they are told before they come that they need to wear a mask to their visit.
I had a patient in the office who was waiting on insurance verification before being seen. This first patient had already made a complaint to our staff about our kiosk not being cleaned while he was in the office, even though we have hand sanitizer in the waiting room. A second patient walked in without a mask, and he started coughing and said he was not going to wear a mask. When the first patient complained to my office staff about the guy not wearing a mask, the two started getting into a yelling fight with each other. The guy we provided with a mask put it on, but left his nose uncovered and then called the first patient a "chicken ****". The first guy then starts to call the second guy an "*******". We had to go out into the waiting room and separate the two and ask them not to speak to each other. Both were in their late 50s.
I did go ahead and see each of them, and when my Medical Assistant was doing the intake on the guy who refused to wear a mask, he told her, "who cares if a bunch of old, fat people die, anyway?".
It was the perfect storm of two people on opposite sides of the mask debate being in the same place at the same time.
Have other doctors had problems like this?
Jeezo.

Kool said:

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"who cares if a bunch of old, fat people die, anyway?"

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Probably old or fat people care, or anyone who loves someone who is old or fat, which is pretty much everyone in America. Sorry that happened. We need to be able to disagree without being whiny babies about having to follow the rules in a place we chose to go or that the place isn't being disinfected every 60 seconds.

If I were you, my practice would have 2 fewer patients.

People are losing their minds.

Lack of purpose imo.

Time to send a letter releasing no mask guy (and maybe second) from your practice, I doubt I could ever see them again without thinking about that little episode.

Refuse to wear a mask in my office? Fine, I refuse to see you.

First guy is annoying, the second guy is a dangerous ass. Going into a Dr.'s office refusing to wear a mask and coughing? The second guy shouldn't have been allowed to sit down long enough for the first guy to complain.

VKint said:

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Time to send a letter releasing no mask guy (and maybe second) from your practice, I doubt I could ever see them again without thinking about that little episode.

Refuse to wear a mask in my office? Fine, I refuse to see you.

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Bingo, just like at private establishments. Do not like the rule go somewhere else. But it seems crazy when you are coughing and such not to wear your mask when at the doctors. Heck a lot of doctors won't let people wait in the waiting room

My bet was the guy was probably overweight too, seems to be the 40-50 year old men I see fighting it the most.

One Eyed Fat Man who is 64 appreciates your mask policy.

I agree...but it sucks to expect a receptionist to play enforcer.

The second guy should just be let go or at least a talking to.

The no mask guy, should get the same mark in her chart that Elaine got from her doctor.

We have a "no mask and mask not worn properly" zero tolerance policy. If you don't comply, you are not seen. I would send a certified letter to no masker and state that he cannot be seen in future sans a mask. Otherwise 30 d notice of termination of Dr / Pt relationship. And agree would send a letter to partial masker that violent outbursts not tolerated etc. and mask must be worn properly and same warning.

Yes I'd fire that patient. We have had a few patients come for their surgery and refuse to comply. We politely cancel their case and tell them they can reschedule once the pandemic is over and guidelines change.

The last one was at 4:30am and the patients wife was unimpressed with his behavior, sat him down and put the mask on for him. Dude was in his 50s.

There are some major *******s in this world. Sounds like you have one for a patient.

People have made this whole mask thing a really weird hill to die on.

I saw an educated A&M graduate on Facebook this morning share one of those "Chain" posts that basically equated a mask to the mark of the beast in Revelations. It is absolutely mind numbing to me how absolutely out there people are on this.

Edit - This has solidified my plan to buy some off-grid land to get away from this society just as much and as fast as possible. People are losing their minds quick fast and in a hurry.

You should have put them both in timeout, and said it aloud for all to hear

I must of missed that one, mark of the beast? Mask have a 666 on it? I guess I need to spend more time on facebook to learn real truths. Or maybe not.

In my lifetime the mark of the beast has been:
Bar codes
Social security numbers
Credit cards
Credit score
Drivers licenses with finger printing.


So why not facemasks

No, just that by making us wear masks it was "preparing us for things that are to come".

I'm just really glad my mind doesn't go down some of these insane rabbit holes that it seems a lot of people allow themselves to go down.

And Duncan, that's the ironic thing..... that person will throw their SSN around without a care in the world to get a loan, get hired, etc etc... but NOOOO, a cloth mask is a sign of Revelations and the end times.

Luckily I have not seen it come to that level yet but as ugly as all this is, not surprised. It is absolutely justified to send the certified letters as you see fit.

Best of luck to you all!

HillcountryAg97 said:

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Luckily I have not seen it come to that level yet but as ugly as all this is, not surprised. It is absolutely justified to send the certified letters as you see fit.

Best of luck to you all!

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In a functioning society a probable outcome when we get to the other side would be people wearing a mask to the Drs office ANYTIME they are coughing as a consideration for others. But there is zero chance of that happening.

I had a patient who refused to wear a mask and told me he wouldn't come back until I changed my policy. This was before the mandate. I told him no big deal and I respected his decision and said he was entitled to have that viewpoint.

He called me 2 weeks later and said he was in so much pain and that he would come in and he would wear a mask. I think the reason he came back in was I didn't make a big deal about him not wanting to wear a mask.

My Stepmom is the head administrator for an OB/GYN and had a pregnant patient come in refusing to wear a mask. stepmom was called in to explain the mask policy and things escalated. The patient was upset about rights/freedoms being taken away and that it's her body not theirs. Security came in to escort her just in time as she took a swing at my step mom and they caught her arm in full forward motion to my stepmoms face. Preggo is no longer a patient.

People suck.

Kool said:

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Just had a new low in the Coronavirus era this afternoon. Our office has a mask policy that all patients need to wear a mask unless they have a specific medical condition that will not allow them to wear one. We will provide them with a mask if they show up without one, but they are told before they come that they need to wear a mask to their visit.
I had a patient in the office who was waiting on insurance verification before being seen. This first patient had already made a complaint to our staff about our kiosk not being cleaned while he was in the office, even though we have hand sanitizer in the waiting room. A second patient walked in without a mask, and he started coughing and said he was not going to wear a mask. When the first patient complained to my office staff about the guy not wearing a mask, the two started getting into a yelling fight with each other. The guy we provided with a mask put it on, but left his nose uncovered and then called the first patient a "chicken ****". The first guy then starts to call the second guy an "*******". We had to go out into the waiting room and separate the two and ask them not to speak to each other. Both were in their late 50s.
I did go ahead and see each of them, and when my Medical Assistant was doing the intake on the guy who refused to wear a mask, he told her, "who cares if a bunch of old, fat people die, anyway?".
It was the perfect storm of two people on opposite sides of the mask debate being in the same place at the same time.
Have other doctors had problems like this?
Jeezo.

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While I'm no mask fan, I'm also a believer in showing respect and picking my battles. Agreeing with Duncan here (may be the first and last time) 2 less patients.

Kool said:

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KlinkerAg11 said:

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People are losing their minds.

Lack of purpose imo.

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I agree. It's a no-win situation. Other patients are in the office listening to them yelling at each other, so you're trying to de-escalate. You fire two people and they torch you on social media And the second guy technically complied with "wearing" his mask without really doing it.

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You are a doctor. If I was a patient wearing a mask and the guy not doing it correctly and coughing wasn't asked to leave I would find a new doctor. It's really that simple. You may have lost patients to by their choice.

Player To Be Named Later said:

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No, just that by making us wear masks it was "preparing us for things that are to come".

I'm just really glad my mind doesn't go down some of these insane rabbit holes that it seems a lot of people allow themselves to go down.

And Duncan, that's the ironic thing..... that person will throw their SSN around without a care in the world to get a loan, get hired, etc etc... but NOOOO, a cloth mask is a sign of Revelations and the end times.

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Or has a cell phone that is probably tracking everywhere they go, what they search, what websites the visit, etc. Cognitive dissonance is crazy, and I don't know how we are going to fix the path that we are on.

Kool said:

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Both were in their late 50s.

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Prime a-hole age.

I will give an unsolicited opinion. Masks are neither a placebo nor a panacea. They are probably closer to a placebo when they are worn improperly, though, as they very frequently are. It's hard for me to understand how a properly worn mask would NOT decrease transmission of a respiratory virus, either from a symptomatic or asymptomatic infected person. I have been wearing a mask in my office since COVID started, and every single encounter I have subjects me to an exam, within inches, of multiple noses and mouths every day. And, no doubt, I would subject myself to a rash of litigation were I not to enforce a mask policy in my office (which the second patient did, begrudgingly, acquiesce to) if my employees or other patients were to get ill.

Regardless, when you go to a medical office, I think it is reasonable for an adult to understand that they are going to be in contact with persons who are immunocompromised in greater frequency than those out in the general population. I see patients with immunoglobulin deficiencies, asthma, people undergoing chemotherapy for head and neck cancer, etc. I get it, it's controversial, and there are those with M.D.s and Ph.D.s and all other kinds of letters behind their names who can point to the fact that there are studies showing lack of efficacy. But it's really a small thing to do to wear a mask for the time you are in my office. Especially when we asked you ahead of time to bring one and then even provided you with one if you failed to bring one.

One of yesterday's patients had given us wrong insurance information, so he was in the waiting room (which absolutely is big enough to maintain "social distancing") longer than anticipated. The other one was new, so he had to sign in on our kiosk and give us his I.D. cards and wait for that to clear. It was just the perfect storm of two people on opposite sides of the mask dilemma who could not find civility over their differences. Very disappointing, to say the least.

The last time I can recall any type of altercation in the waiting room was about 15 years ago. I had two older gentlemen in my office who had known each other for decades. They were each from families that had held significant chunks of land in town which had since been sold and developed (think owning hundreds of acres at 635 and the Tollway in Dallas or 610 and 45 in Houston). They recognized each other, and started arguing about which one of them was "cheaper" than the other. It was great entertainment for the other patients and the front office staff. Maybe those gentlemen were more genteel than yesterday's idiots. But I also wonder if the times, they are a-changin.

Pretty much agree with everything you said. Do I think masks are the end of the spread of this thing? Absolutely not.. Do I think they do absolutely zero good? Also absolutely not.

They are probably somewhere in the middle, but I do think they can help reduce transmission and are really a small ask of people to show just a little common courtesy, especially in a doctor's waiting room where, as you said, there are a lot of higher risk folks there to be seen.

My good buddy from HS was in ICU recently for around 2 weeks with something unrelated to Covid, picked it up while in the hospital because he was asymptomatic for 2 days after release before coming down with the symptoms. So at a minimum he was asymptomatic for 2 days and during those 2 days managed to give it to his father who is now in the hospital hanging on for his life with Covid.

So yeah, I'd feel like a Grade A ***hole if I knew I had been in a waiting room and unknowingly spread it to someone high risk, when a mask could have likely prevented it.

But some people are just hell bent to show us ALL how big of a "Patriot" they are. 95% of them though would be hiding somewhere if it really came time to do real Patriot kind of things. But by God, they'll show us ALL how tough they are by not wearing a mask.

What's a little funny about this is that we have required masks for literally years during flu season when someone presents with URI symptoms at my primary care clinics.

It was never a big deal, we handed them the mask when they checked in and we flagged the door to the exam room so everyone knew to take extra precautions. I don't remember a single patient complaint until this year.

AggieMPH2005 said:

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What's a little funny about this is that we have required masks for literally years during flu season when someone presents with URI symptoms at my primary care clinics.

It was never a big deal, we handed them the mask when they checked in and we flagged the door to the exam room so everyone knew to take extra precautions. I don't remember a single patient complaint until this year.

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I've had masks and respirators mandatory in my operations for decades. From simple cloth to N95 to OV/P100 to full respirators. My employees are around everything from dusts to VOCs to anhydrous ammonia. Never had one complain or use improperly (yes, training) or "pass out" in 100 degree temperatures or get sick from breathing their own viruses/bacteria. Also, never had a problem when an area says hard hats required. Got a lot of people out there who are insecure and trying to make up for it using not gonna wear a mask of all things.

Whew. Are we arguing mandates to wear a mask in medical offices? Myself (pulmonary) and Kool (ENT) incredibly high risk. Is it too much to ask to don a face protective covering in these environments? Let alone much lower risk settings like grocery stores?

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The guy we provided with a mask put it on, but left his nose uncovered and then called the first patient a "chicken ****"

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I wonder what his texags user name is.