jwoodmd said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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jwoodmd said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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ETFan said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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You can't read very well, can you? You came over to this forum looking to be a Grade A troll..... good job. You can go tell all your pals at F16 how big of a Patriot you are.

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Lawls. I don't have pals, pal. Continue the insults though.

Why is it your buddy caught covid I wonder? He was likely social distancing while in the hospital and people were wearing masks there I'm sure, right?

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You're full blown ate up with it.

Masks help, distancing helps. Period. Your inability to realize that the sum protection of these actions doesn't equal 100% and therefore won't protect everyone, every time, in every situation, isn't our problem. Go work on your reasoning skills.

On topic. No mask guy would be receiving a certified letter from our office. Ain't nobody got time for that,

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Wait, wait, so help is all that we need to qualify? What if we mandate fitness and diet plans for everyone to follow? That would lower the risk of death would it not? Where are the talking points for these types of mandates?

Perhaps it's because masks have been politicized and represent control rather than a solution. Hmm.. I wonder if that politicization has been affecting even our doctors and health care leaders. It sure seems like it.

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You really have forgotten what forum you're on. Or are you the cult's designated rep today.

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Am I wrong? We've had three months on this board to discuss ways to combat coronavirus. Why is it masks have become such a significant part of the medical world talking points? Where are the alternative solutions or ideas?

Ultimately, the goal is to prevent sickness and loss of life, so if the public patient doesn't like masks, why not look for other alternatives that the general public can utilize?

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When patients do this we put an AMA note in your file.

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You're just proving my point. I never said patients shouldn't wear a mask, so outside of trying to harass your opposition I'm not sure what your point is.

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You're being obtuse. Putting an AMA (against medical advice) is not harassment. It is documentation that I have given my medical advice on a treatment plan (I'm talking overall so don't go to masks). You've indicated if people don't like the treatments, doctors need to find other treatments. Well, that's ridiculous. We've recommended what we feel is needed. The AMA is important to indicate to everyone that it was YOUR choice to not follow. That way you can't go to insurance, another doctor, legal, etc. and claim we weren't doing our jobs or didn't recommend a treatment plan when in fact we did.

As you seem young, take this to heart. People act tough and say I'll just check myself out of the hospital if the doc won't discharge me. Well, that gets an AMA on your file. You may find your insurance won't pay a dime in that case.

Can't wait for your trolling comeback on this. My comments are for information and not playing games.

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I never said patients shouldn't wear a mask. Let's make that clear. I've said this multiple times.

And you misread what I posted. I said you were trying to antagonize people (on this forum) who don't believe the science supports masks by saying you would flag them if they were your patient. That doesn't make sense and has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. All it does is prove you are being combative towards those who don't agree with you.

Both guys represent the A Holes on both sides. Sorry you had a perfect storm of extremes.

I don't necessarily agree that they are affective, however a healthcare facility should be able to decide as it sees fit.

Not to mention placebos by nature have value if the user truly believes it's helping them, so for this reason I get why elderly or sick people might feel comforted by a mask in a waiting room.

What disturbs me though is all of the pushback from discussing alternative views on here. Especially in an environment where science and logic are supposed to be the drivers. That I don't care much for especially when I lurk in here and see people mocking what they view to be extremists, aka Christians. How is that informative?

ac04 said:

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you went on the offensive and mocked opposing viewpoints on this very thread, so much so that staff had to delete most of it and warn you to stop trolling.

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No, that isn't true. Staff has their reasons, but I never called anyone names or mocked anybody for their viewpoints. Posts on this thread devolved from the OP's patient room story to ridiculing those who don't believe masks to be affective (calling them extremists). All I did was give an opposing viewpoint on the matter and from there defended myself.

I have no problems with debating people on the subject even if they want to resort to name calling. As I believe it's important to debate others with differing view points. Anything else and it's an echo chamber and no useful knowledge or information can be transfered.

ETA: The "trolling is not allowed" edit by staff was because I pointed out the anti-christian and extremist viewpoints being thrown around on here. Whether you believe masks are affective or not those posts are ridiculous. Especially if we claim this to be an informative only covid board.

Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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ac04 said:

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you went on the offensive and mocked opposing viewpoints on this very thread, so much so that staff had to delete most of it and warn you to stop trolling.

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No, that isn't true. Staff has there reasons, but I never called anyone names or mocked anybody for their viewpoints. Posts on this thread devolved from the OP's patient room story to ridiculing those who don't believe masks to be affective (calling them extremists). All I did was give an opposing viewpoint on the matter and from there defended myself.

I have no problems with debating people on the subject even if they want to resort to name calling. As I believe it's important to debate others with differing view points. Anything else and it's an echo chamber and no useful knowledge or information can be transfered.

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Look in the mirror and you'll see who did that.

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Let's evolve the conversation rather than attempt to get us both banned.

Why should we believe the public can effectively wear a mask and prevent covid spread by doing so?

Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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ac04 said:

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you went on the offensive and mocked opposing viewpoints on this very thread, so much so that staff had to delete most of it and warn you to stop trolling.

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No, that isn't true. Staff has there reasons, but I never called anyone names or mocked anybody for their viewpoints. Posts on this thread devolved from the OP's patient room story to ridiculing those who don't believe masks to be affective (calling them extremists). All I did was give an opposing viewpoint on the matter and from there defended myself.

I have no problems with debating people on the subject even if they want to resort to name calling. As I believe it's important to debate others with differing view points. Anything else and it's an echo chamber and no useful knowledge or information can be transfered.

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Look in the mirror and you'll see who did that.

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Let's evolve the conversation rather than attempt to get us both banned.

Why should we believe the public can effectively wear a mask and prevent covid spread by doing so?

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Ok, son. If you can't get the public to effectively wear a simple mask, what, in your infinite wisdom and experience, can you get the public to effectively do to help prevent spread of Covid? You haven't offered a single one in all this, so here's you big chance.

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Well Gramps(?), I'm not sure. I'm of the opinion that the public doesn't wear masks made of the appropriate material and even when they do they wear them incorrectly. In which case they are not worth arguing over, much less shaming people over or enforcing.

If we were to discuss more useful and positive practices, how about as I mentioned earlier: Encouraging exercise? Lowering blood sugar? Avoiding alcohol? Sleeping better?

All of these, with respect to the public, are more helpful than masks both in the long run and in the short run. I'm sure many of the doctors on this board would agree.

John Francis Donaghy said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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ac04 said:

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you went on the offensive and mocked opposing viewpoints on this very thread, so much so that staff had to delete most of it and warn you to stop trolling.

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No, that isn't true. Staff has there reasons, but I never called anyone names or mocked anybody for their viewpoints. Posts on this thread devolved from the OP's patient room story to ridiculing those who don't believe masks to be affective (calling them extremists). All I did was give an opposing viewpoint on the matter and from there defended myself.

I have no problems with debating people on the subject even if they want to resort to name calling. As I believe it's important to debate others with differing view points. Anything else and it's an echo chamber and no useful knowledge or information can be transfered.

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Look in the mirror and you'll see who did that.

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Let's evolve the conversation rather than attempt to get us both banned.

Why should we believe the public can effectively wear a mask and prevent covid spread by doing so?

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Ok, son. If you can't get the public to effectively wear a simple mask, what, in your infinite wisdom and experience, can you get the public to effectively do to help prevent spread of Covid? You haven't offered a single one in all this, so here's you big chance.

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Well Gramps(?), I'm not sure. I'm of the opinion that the public doesn't wear masks made of the appropriate material and even when they do they wear them incorrectly. In which case they are not worth arguing over, much less shaming people over or enforcing.

If we were to discuss more useful and positive practices, how about as I mentioned earlier: Encouraging exercise? Lowering blood sugar? Avoiding alcohol? Sleeping better?

All of these, with respect to the public, are more helpful than masks both in the long run and in the short run. I'm sure many of the doctors on this board would agree.

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So just to be clear, you think the general public is so stubborn and unteachable that it's folly to try to teach them to wear a mask correctly, but your solution is to ask them to educate themselves on proper nutrition, stop drinking, start getting off their butts and exercising regularly, and turn off Netflix to go to bed earlier?

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We have limited resources on this earth. One of those resources is time. If we spend all of our time arguing about masks, which is something that has minimal effectiveness, then why should we not spend that time on something more effective? Especially when we know that this disease is not going away any time soon and when we know that personal health practices dictates more of the outcome (life or death)?

I propose we drop the speed limit back to 55 mph and everyone wear crash helmets. It would be way safer.

Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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John Francis Donaghy said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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Old RV Ag said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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ac04 said:

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you went on the offensive and mocked opposing viewpoints on this very thread, so much so that staff had to delete most of it and warn you to stop trolling.

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No, that isn't true. Staff has there reasons, but I never called anyone names or mocked anybody for their viewpoints. Posts on this thread devolved from the OP's patient room story to ridiculing those who don't believe masks to be affective (calling them extremists). All I did was give an opposing viewpoint on the matter and from there defended myself.

I have no problems with debating people on the subject even if they want to resort to name calling. As I believe it's important to debate others with differing view points. Anything else and it's an echo chamber and no useful knowledge or information can be transfered.

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Look in the mirror and you'll see who did that.

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Let's evolve the conversation rather than attempt to get us both banned.

Why should we believe the public can effectively wear a mask and prevent covid spread by doing so?

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Ok, son. If you can't get the public to effectively wear a simple mask, what, in your infinite wisdom and experience, can you get the public to effectively do to help prevent spread of Covid? You haven't offered a single one in all this, so here's you big chance.

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Well Gramps(?), I'm not sure. I'm of the opinion that the public doesn't wear masks made of the appropriate material and even when they do they wear them incorrectly. In which case they are not worth arguing over, much less shaming people over or enforcing.

If we were to discuss more useful and positive practices, how about as I mentioned earlier: Encouraging exercise? Lowering blood sugar? Avoiding alcohol? Sleeping better?

All of these, with respect to the public, are more helpful than masks both in the long run and in the short run. I'm sure many of the doctors on this board would agree.

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So just to be clear, you think the general public is so stubborn and unteachable that it's folly to try to teach them to wear a mask correctly, but your solution is to ask them to educate themselves on proper nutrition, stop drinking, start getting off their butts and exercising regularly, and turn off Netflix to go to bed earlier?

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We have limited resources on this earth. One of those resources is time. If we spend all of our time arguing about masks, which is something that has minimal effectiveness, then why should we not spend that time on something more effective? Especially when we know that this disease is not going away any time soon and when we know that personal health practices dictates more of the outcome (life or death)?

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You do realize these ideas and efforts have been around for decades - longer than likely how old you are given your username. If someone won't wear a mask, they are doing any of these things. Arguing over masks is ridiculous - but, even if it helps only a little it's a small ask of people. There are no negatives to masks other than "I don't like it." Doctors tell overweight patients to just try going for a 15 minute walk daily as a start. They won't even do that and that's a pretty small thing.

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I know your handle has "Old" in it, but unless you are ancient I don't think the practice of physical fitness or dieting is younger than you or I, in fact, it goes back likely before even the Romans existed. To try to suggest that this is a recent invention is silly.

And, if there were ever a society more spoiled and out of shape than this one we are a part of currently I don't know of it. Likely there should be a major initiative to combat these issues. An initiative in which is not distracted by mask hysteria (pun intended).

Old RV Ag said:

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sleepybeagle said:

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I propose we drop the speed limit back to 55 mph and everyone wear crash helmets. It would be way safer.

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+ prohibition

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This actually goes against the mandate mask argument...

ETFan said:

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AggieKeith15 said:

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We have limited resources on this earth. One of those resources is time. If we spend all of our time arguing about masks, which is something that has minimal effectiveness, then why should we not spend that time on something more effective? Especially when we know that this disease is not going away any time soon and when we know that personal health practices dictates more of the outcome (life or death)?

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We're not getting people off the couch, in to a workout routine, or eating better as a means to prevent the spread of COVID (???) or as a means to lower the chance of complications once someone does present with COVID19. This simply isn't feasible, realistic, and doesn't address the whole a, pre, pauci symptomatic spread.

What we can do, that actually does have efficacy, is require folks to wear masks. It's simple, cheap, available. Add that to social distancing and we've given ourselves a chance.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext
https://threader.app/thread/1279144399897866248
https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20069567v2.full.pdf
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2?fbclid=IwAR03MsXuxP1MRJrYYr2OxPTZL53rVOvij6kWdNai0AD6TErzGHDvGV03Lg0

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Increased fitness would impact both. A stronger body means a stronger immune system to prevent catching covid and a stronger body that catches covid is more likely to survive it. Both of these are better than waiting for a vaccine, especially with a mortality rate sitting at 1%, effecting mostly the obese and diabetics, all the while we have approximately 40% of our adult population living in obesity.

It could be argued that if it was made a higher priority deaths caused by heart disease would go down at a higher number than covid could take lives. More lives saved is the goal right?

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

gvine07 said:

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Keith - obesity and diabetes aren't as easily contagious as COVID.

The masks mandates are not intended to last forever. Sugar/alcohol laws/restrictions you're alluding to would seem to last forever (not that you're arguing for them...).

Masks are not the end-all solution. Social distancing is not the end-all solution. But they are part of the short-term COVID solutions. If there's something else that can drop the cases so we're not filling up our hospitals our ears are open.

For one reason or another mask orders seem to be working. What if they really do prevent the spread of COVID? I'll accept the fact they may have little to do with it.

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I didn't realize diabetes was contagious. Do you have a link I can reference to prove this? It would be news for me, likely for other experts on here as well. Do please reference.

And there is no timeline on when masks mandates are supposed to expire. Covid, as we have heard from different sources, is never going away. Why shouldn't a long term solution, reducing comorbidities, be a priority if this is not going away? How is that such a leap?

No, masks are not a solution. A death rate of 1% does not justify implementing them and to give people potentially false hope in a vaccine or a mask doesn't make sense. It's not a solution. To create an environment on this board that ridicules people for pointing this out is ridiculous and goes against the most basic fundamental of trying to help others as medical professionals.

With the respect to mandates, where is your proof to support this? From every different example on the macro level all of the the leading factors appear to be population density, seasonality, strain types, and socioeconomic factors. Can our emergency rooms be overwhelmed? No. Then why are the intelligentsia on this board obsessing on something so marginal like masks? That is an issue for me and I would be interested to get your take on if you think it's okay to be harassing people over their disdain for masks. As I really don't think it's healthy, nor productive.

Yeah, these masks are just getting people upset with each other. Everyone should just be allowed to choose what they're comfortable with and move on.

BDub3 said:

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Kool said:

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"who cares if a bunch of old, fat people die, anyway?"

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Probably old or fat people care, or anyone who loves someone who is old or fat, which is pretty much everyone in America. Sorry that happened. We need to be able to disagree without being whiny babies about having to follow the rules in a place we chose to go or that the place isn't being disinfected every 60 seconds.

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Those fellas are young.

John Francis Donaghy said:

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"Why should I stop smoking? Non smokers still get cancer, so why bother quitting?"

"Why should I eat better or exercise? Healthy people die of heart attacks too, so why bother eating vegetables or exercising?."

"Why should I wear a mask? Mask wearers still might get sick, so why bother with the mask?"

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Throwing out how much more deadly smoking is than covid, are you really trying to suggest nonsmoker's get lung cancer at the same rate non mask wearers get covid?

Same for diet and fitness. Are you really trying to say those don't cause more harm or are not more directly connected than the spread of covid when someone doesn't wear a mask?

That's a pretty weak argument. Not sure I see the point.

I am impressed that this troll is still going. This is redstone and picadillo level trolling.

Hat tip to you Aggiekeith