KidDoc said:Because not allowing children to go to school is causing clear harm with an acute increase in depression, anxiety, and BMI increases. The distance learning did not seem to work very well especially for the most vulnerable population. When you balance the risk of COVID vs the risk of not attending school the risk of not attending school is clearly the greater risk. This is why the CDC & AAP have come out with clear guidelines that school needs to happen.Ranger222 said:
Kids spread the virus. There was some thought early on that because of the lower rate of symptoms appearing, there would be less spread as kids 'appeared' to be not good carriers. With recent studies we are seeing that line of thinking probably doesn't hold water as kids = adults in terms of amount of virus detectable by PCR. They are no different than any other age group in this regard. Whether kids spread "more" or "less" than adults is kinda irrelevant as the main question is "will spreading among kids and then their households occur?" and that answer is yes.
There are several different issues involving the school debate and they all kinda get mixed together in this discussion. One issue is safety for kids alone, the other is safety to their households and finally the last is contribution to another rise in cases and eventual deaths with opening another avenue for spreading events.
For the last topic, I view it in terms of wildfires. If you heard on the news that "wildfire x is 50% contained" that means we both making progress to contain it but it could still go the other way and is dangerous. I think with the current numbers we are right around that "50% contained" mark. Room for progress and continued decrease in numbers, but still can go the other way. Why would we want, then, to shift conditions to uncontainable again when we are just getting ahold of things? It makes no sense. Discussion might be different if this were mid-May again, but its not.
Not every family is able to work from home. Not every family has two parents. Not every family has a laptop for each child and a good internet connection.
How does a single mom RN who works 12 hours with 2-3 kids of different ages supervise them? It is impossible.
Children spreading the virus
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Last: 5 yr ago by RandyAg98
Yeah, kinda like articles about kids drowning and water safety start popping up when kids are about to get out of school for the summer. Definitely seems a little too coincidental. Hmmmmm...Bucketrunner said:
It seems a little too coincidental that all the articles about children spreading it are appearing just when schools are planning to open. Not saying it might not be true, but it makes me go hmmmmmm.
Also, I think most people realize the importance of opening schools, but they want to ensure it is done safely for everyone. This includes family members of students and teachers. Most parents want to go back to work/stop paying as much for day care, most kids want to see their friends, kids are a huge driver of the economy, etc. We just can't afford to have more large scale spreading.
Not taking a side here, just noting that news about 200 kids at a camp being infected came out a few days ago. I do think you're correct that we haven't seen much about daycares though.WelchAg said:
If true, wouldn't daycares have been shut down by now? I can't recall any major story about an outbreak at a daycare, and you know with absolute certainty that would be front page news.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-than-200-kids-test-positive-for-coronavirus-after-attending-georgia-summer-camp/
Benny the Jet Rodriguez
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AG
What about all of the camps that went on all summer with no outbreaks?
As I literally said, not taking a side here, just sharing a related news story.Bassmaster said:
What about all of the camps that went on all summer with no outbreaks?
The same way that people blame illnesses on "food poisoning." Dude, you're sick, and you're contagious. That's why you blew chunks.culdeus said:This is the monster issue.BiochemAg97 said:That is what the data from Europe suggest.AggieSarah01 said:
That makes sense! Thank you! So schools are probably fairly safe as long as symptomatic kids stay home...
Now, how to convince parents to keep their symptomatic kids at home instead of bringing them to school...
The beaches open and people flood into them, bars open, same. Schools open, no way in hell am I not sending my kid with "allergies" in today.
New study today showing very low transmission rates:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200804100225.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200804100225.htm
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And it looks to me like kids in NSW don't wear masks and also are not required to social distance!
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/school-is-returning-full-time-from-monday-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-20200521-p54v2d.html
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/school-is-returning-full-time-from-monday-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-20200521-p54v2d.html
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I get it, but that is part of the problem. People see a story about 200 infections at summer camp and freak out. All while ignoring all of the camps that operated successfully with little to no outbreaks.
Agreed. the article also clearly (though well into the text) states the camp didnt follow CDC guidance on practices such as masks and ventilation, and the camp also engaged in chanting/singing in very close quarters, which all supports safe and repetitive practices can allow for camps and education to continue.
But it's still a data point to consider, and maybe more importantly an opportunity to say "we had an outbreak here, what went wrong and how can we prevent it".
fig96 said:
But it's still a data point to consider, and maybe more importantly an opportunity to say "we had an outbreak here, what went wrong and how can we prevent it".
The outbreak was in June just after the BLM protests and symptoms popped up pretty much like everywhere else in the south at the time.
The BLM protests were less of a factor than was the increase in people in restaurants/bars and interstate travel after Memorial Day but the BLM protests fit a better political narrative so that's what people run with.tysker said:fig96 said:
But it's still a data point to consider, and maybe more importantly an opportunity to say "we had an outbreak here, what went wrong and how can we prevent it".
The outbreak was in June just after the BLM protests and symptoms popped up pretty much like everywhere else in the south at the time.
Username checks out.
I Am A Critic said:The BLM protests were less of a factor than was the increase in people in restaurants/bars and interstate travel after Memorial Day but the BLM protests fit a better political narrative so that's what people run with.tysker said:fig96 said:
But it's still a data point to consider, and maybe more importantly an opportunity to say "we had an outbreak here, what went wrong and how can we prevent it".
The outbreak was in June just after the BLM protests and symptoms popped up pretty much like everywhere else in the south at the time.
Well your timeframe of symptoms dont line up with Memorial Day travel and the outbreak of this camp around June 17-20. And why would a bunch of kids and staff be in bars the week before?
Edit to add- and that's not even discussing some reports on the racial makeup of the campers
What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to convince yourself that THIS:Quote:
The BLM protests were less of a factor than was the increase in people in restaurants/bars and interstate travel after Memorial Day but the BLM protests fit a better political narrative so that's what people run with.
did not increase the spread of COVID-19? Who is it again that has the political narrative to fit? Not debating the issue they were protesting, right or wrong. But it is disingenuous to not think that maybe, just maybe, that might have spread some COVID around.
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Memorial Day weekend, the initial protests, and possibly more importantly a bunch of southern states opening back up literally line up with each other (and lots of kids and young adults travel and go to events with their families). And protests probably did contribute to some extent, but the fact we didn't see outbreaks in every city that had big protests casts some doubt there.tysker said:I Am A Critic said:The BLM protests were less of a factor than was the increase in people in restaurants/bars and interstate travel after Memorial Day but the BLM protests fit a better political narrative so that's what people run with.tysker said:fig96 said:
But it's still a data point to consider, and maybe more importantly an opportunity to say "we had an outbreak here, what went wrong and how can we prevent it".
The outbreak was in June just after the BLM protests and symptoms popped up pretty much like everywhere else in the south at the time.
Well your timeframe of symptoms dont line up with Memorial Day travel and the outbreak of this camp around June 17-20. And why would a bunch of kids and staff be in bars the week before?
Edit to add- and that's not even discussing some reports on the racial makeup of the campers
Either way none of that has changes the fact that we can use an outbreak at a camp among kids, which we haven't seen a lot of, to evaluate why it might have happened.
Reading comprehension is not your friend. I never said they weren't a factor. They're just not as big a factor as others. Thank you for proving my point, though.RandyAg98 said:What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to do to convince yourself that THIS:Quote:
The BLM protests were less of a factor than was the increase in people in restaurants/bars and interstate travel after Memorial Day but the BLM protests fit a better political narrative so that's what people run with.
did not increase the spread of COVID-19? Who is it again that has the political narrative to fit? Not debating the issue they were protesting, right or wrong. But it is disingenuous to not think that maybe, just maybe, that might have spread some COVID around.
Username checks out.
tysker said:I Am A Critic said:The BLM protests were less of a factor than was the increase in people in restaurants/bars and interstate travel after Memorial Day but the BLM protests fit a better political narrative so that's what people run with.tysker said:fig96 said:
But it's still a data point to consider, and maybe more importantly an opportunity to say "we had an outbreak here, what went wrong and how can we prevent it".
The outbreak was in June just after the BLM protests and symptoms popped up pretty much like everywhere else in the south at the time.
Well your timeframe of symptoms dont line up with Memorial Day travel and the outbreak of this camp around June 17-20. And why would a bunch of kids and staff be in bars the week before?
Edit to add- and that's not even discussing some reports on the racial makeup of the campers
What part of "after Memorial Day" did you not get?
Username checks out.
What's almost as interesting as what is happening to people physically, is what COVID is doing to people mentally. To see parents on social media act like sending their kid back to school is a death sentence is something else. Some people don't like facts and have made up their mind that this is the end.
I have a family member (Aggie, very smart) who tested positive. While positive, he would swim in his pool (by himself) wearing a mask and refused to be around his dogs because he thought he'd pass it to them. Weird times.
I have a family member (Aggie, very smart) who tested positive. While positive, he would swim in his pool (by himself) wearing a mask and refused to be around his dogs because he thought he'd pass it to them. Weird times.
I'm not sure if you're aware but today is also 'after Memorial Day' as well and yet you don't see camps having similar outbreaks today. You might as well try and place blame for the camp outbreak on Spring Breakers and Mardi Gras while you're at it.Quote:
What part of "after Memorial Day" did you not get?
Everything but protests=fair game, whether the timeline makes sense or not.
Here's the thing. You have no effing clue what was a factor and what wasn't. You saying it wasn't "as big" a factor does not make it true. The timeline of increased cases would strongly suggest otherwise. But continue with your mental gymnastics.
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