COVID very low risk for reinfection

2,244 Views | 6 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by BusterAg
BusterAg
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AG
A lot of people are asking about reinfection risk. It has been discussed in other places. I wanted a place that was easy to link to and discuss. Here is the general consensus:

1) We don't know for 100% sure that there will be medium or long term immunity; but

2) Based on all of the data to date, it is very unlikely that a person will get reinfected unless they have some other immune system deficiency.

The best news is the article from nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

In this article:
1) 36 out of 36 patients that had recovered from COVID had T-cells that reacted to the virus;
2) 23 out of 23 patients that had recovered from SAR in 2003 (17 years ago!) had T-cells that reacted to the virus;

Earlier news from cell: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

In this article,

1) 20 out of 20 patients that had recovered from COVID had immune systems that recognized COVID proteins.
2) Two teams looked at uninfected patients. One team reported that 1/3rd of uninfected patients had T-helper cells that responded to COVID. The other team reported that 1/2 of uninfected patients had T-helper cells that responded to COVID. However, the response of the immune systems of non-exposed patients, was different. It's pretty technical, but it was a different type of cell response than the recovered patients.

Cell and Science are two of the primer scientific journals in the world. I know of no other serious study that has come out and refuted these findings. So, for the lab analysis we have from these two studies, 56 out of 56 patients that have recovered from COVID have T-helper cells that respond to COVID. 56 is not a large sample size, but batting 1.000 in these types of studies is rare. Having robust T-helper cell response is a strong indication of the ability to fight off the disease.

In short, we don't know 100%, but we are pretty sure, that people will not likely get reinfected again in the medium term, and reasonably sure they will not likely get reinfected over a period of decades, unless they have some other condition that compromises their immune system.

I am not a medical doctor by trade, but have worked around patents in the virology industry. I'm interested in anyone else's comments / critiques if they have a different interpretation, or a suggested clarification.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
beerad12man
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AG
I'm no expert,and I admit I've always erred on the positive side of things with the data I've seen regarding covid because to me, that's just simply the better way to live regardless. But I think it's been pretty clear re-infection would completely have jacked up areas like Sweden's strategy, along with making it significantly more difficult for places to rebound from a big wave like we are beginning to do here.

You don't get areas like NYC and Sweden dropping so much just by simply getting lucky. Or just by wearing masks(which is no more prevalent in NYC than it is in Texas. The difference? NTC already hit their 20-25% number a while back. We are just now there and trending towards it) It's because the virus runs out of hosts and the previous hosts are extremely unlikely to host it again. At the very least to the point where it's likely a very minor case and they aren't contagious.
zachsccr
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AG
Batting a thousand is impressive. Do I expect that to translate absolutely to everyone? No. That's the problem though is people are focusing on the outliers who might reinfect versus the majority who show this type of response.
Cepe
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AG
Here's how my simple mind looks at it. . .

COVID is basically a cold virus

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

Quote:

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

The difference is with 19 we haven't been exposed to it.

Just like a regular cold, some are light and some hit you hard, which is a factor of how many times your body has been exposed to them and how it has learned to handle them.

And, like a regular cold, when you get over it you usually don't get another one for at least a year if you think about it.

My dad had a coronavirus about 18 months ago (different one than 19) and he's in his '80s. Damn near killed him and took a good 2-3 months to get over and caused a terrible rash when he cleared it. Had to do breathing treatments and everything.

So, to me, COVID-19 is with us forever and it will continue to pass through the population. Difference is, the longer it is around the better our bodies will be at dealing with it.
Cepe - its pronounced "Ceep" and stands for my initials - CP.
beerad12man
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AG
I think you're right. Not only will we be better at dealing with it, but you'll have some immune to it as well keeping us from ever having the spikes we saw for the last 5 months. It appears many are immune, or at least better capable of defending themselves with minor to no symptoms, even from Coronavirus exposures years ago.
Cepe
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AG
beerad12man said:

I think you're right. Not only will we be better at dealing with it, but you'll have some immune to it as well keeping us from ever having the spikes we saw for the last 5 months. It appears many are immune, or at least better capable of defending themselves with minor to no symptoms, even from Coronavirus exposures years ago.
And I see a vaccine as not preventing us from catching it, but speeding up the process of how our body see it and reacts to eliminate it. You still might catch COVID-19 but a vaccine will lessen its impact IMO.

We need to learn to live with it. All the basics we already know will help with this - cover your cough, was your hands, etc. I also believe masks do help, but they are not the be-all, end-all people make them out to be. I know I'll get skewered for that thought process, though.

It's not an either or for me with masks. They help some but not to the extent people believe.
Cepe - its pronounced "Ceep" and stands for my initials - CP.
HotardAg07
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AG
BusterAg
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AG
Cepe said:

Here's how my simple mind looks at it. . .

COVID is basically a cold virus

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_cold_causes

Quote:

It's likely that someday you'll have a close encounter with one of these types:

The difference is with 19 we haven't been exposed to it.

Just like a regular cold, some are light and some hit you hard, which is a factor of how many times your body has been exposed to them and how it has learned to handle them.

And, like a regular cold, when you get over it you usually don't get another one for at least a year if you think about it.

My dad had a coronavirus about 18 months ago (different one than 19) and he's in his '80s. Damn near killed him and took a good 2-3 months to get over and caused a terrible rash when he cleared it. Had to do breathing treatments and everything.

So, to me, COVID-19 is with us forever and it will continue to pass through the population. Difference is, the longer it is around the better our bodies will be at dealing with it.
Sorry about your Dad. This stuff is not fun, I know.

But, respectfully, I don't agree with your conclusion at all.

In the papers, it is very clear that COVID 19 has very distinct proteins that are central to the way that they infect other cells (on a layperson level, you often hear about the COVID "spike"). This is very different than the common cold, which mutates much further from itself year over year.

Our T-cells recognize that spike, and remember it for a long time.

There are other viruses that have these "spike" proteins. MERs and SARs for example. In the Science study, 100% of the people who were infected with MERs 17 years ago had T-cells that still recognized that spike, and reacted to COVID the same way that a recovered COVID patient did.

Where is MERs today? It fizzled out. It was way more deadly, and not as easily transmittable. SARs did something similar.

Look, we may have another virus outbreak at any time. It might be a corona virus. But all indications are that this spike way of transmitting viruses is not going to work for a generation now that we have such wide immunity to it.

COVID might mutate away from the tell tale signatures that make it so easy to be recognized by our immune systems in round 2, but that is not near as likely that this thing runs out of hosts in the next 6 to 12 months and disappears from the earth.
It takes a special kind of brainwashed useful idiot to politically defend government fraud, waste, and abuse.
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