This is insane. My wife is really struggling mentally with all of this and I keep trying to speak against her fears that life will never return to normal again. Things like this make me worried she might be right.....

Man I am dealing with the same exact thing, we fall on different sides and she is really having some mental struggles. Our daughter had her first soccer practice and my wife had an anxiety attack watching because nobody anywhere in the complex had masks on.

Can anyone explain the logic to extending it for 3 months? There has to be some logic or science here right? They didn't just say "eff it, 3 months sounds good"...

Not looking for political answers. Legit want to know where they at least say this is coming from or what explanation they give. Why they don't go 2 weeks or a month at a time is confusing to me.

zachsccr said:

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Can anyone explain the logic to extending it for 3 months? There has to be some logic or science here right? They didn't just say "eff it, 3 months sounds good"...

Not looking for political answers. Legit want to know where they at least say this is coming from or what explanation they give. Why they don't go 2 weeks or a month at a time is confusing to me.

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Because it's 2020 in America and everything and everyone functions in extremes. Nothing in moderation anymore.

I am interested for the reasoning as well because I have seen zero evidence. Tarrant county has a population of 2.1 million and has about 400 current cases. That means 1 out of every 5,250 people current have Covid. Insane to apply any more mandates.

I do appreciate what Collin county has been doing lately, did not trust DSHS so they hired 12 private contractors to track down current cases and to get an accurate count. Of the 4,600+ they have found less than 1,000 that are still recovering. Due to this fact Collin county says there are zero county mandates. A population of about 1.1 million and less than 1,000 current cases.

Most have probably picked up on the fact that I don't like to do things just for the sake of doing them. That I don't like to go along with policies just because.

I need hard evidence that they are making a big difference, not a small difference. Meaning, they are the difference in us overwhelming hospitals or not moving forward. I somewhat get the orginances when you are spiking. You try what you can. Maybe they helped prevent this back in July and the first week of August. But when your numbers are free falling just like others before you who aren't requiring masks, it seems like government overreach at that point. Once you give certain government officials power over something, they never seem to make the change backwards. Or at least, it takes 10x longer to go backwards than it did to make the call to do something.

At this point, with graphs all across the world, we can't even confirm they are making a small difference. Let alone a major difference.

If they aren't making a major difference, then masks need to go asap. They aren't what's best for society as a whole IMHO.

We need more mask civil disobedience

TexasAggie008 said:

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We need more mask civil disobedience

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Agree

beerad12man said:

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Most have probably picked up on the fact that I don't like to do things just for the sake of doing them. That I don't like to go along with policies just because.

I need hard evidence that they are making a big difference, not a small difference. Meaning, they are the difference in us overwhelming hospitals or not moving forward. I somewhat get the orginances when you are spiking. You try what you can. Maybe they helped prevent this back in July and the first week of August. But when your numbers are free falling just like others before you who aren't requiring masks, it seems like government overreach at that point. Once you give certain government officials power over something, they never seem to make the change backwards. Or at least, it takes 10x longer to go backwards than it did to make the call to do something.

At this point, with graphs all across the world, we can't even confirm they are making a small difference. Let alone a major difference.

If they aren't making a major difference, then masks need to go asap. They aren't what's best for society as a whole IMHO.

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Its really hard to know what actually works and what doesn't when you have 100s of different scientific studies supporting both sides and politics involved. Seems to me its time to move to a model where the business owners get to determine whether or not patrons need to mask up.

Thankfully we live in Parker county which borders tarrant to the west. Our county judge has said he's no longer enforcing the mask ordinance.

JesusQuintana said:

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beerad12man said:

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Most have probably picked up on the fact that I don't like to do things just for the sake of doing them. That I don't like to go along with policies just because.

I need hard evidence that they are making a big difference, not a small difference. Meaning, they are the difference in us overwhelming hospitals or not moving forward. I somewhat get the orginances when you are spiking. You try what you can. Maybe they helped prevent this back in July and the first week of August. But when your numbers are free falling just like others before you who aren't requiring masks, it seems like government overreach at that point. Once you give certain government officials power over something, they never seem to make the change backwards. Or at least, it takes 10x longer to go backwards than it did to make the call to do something.

At this point, with graphs all across the world, we can't even confirm they are making a small difference. Let alone a major difference.

If they aren't making a major difference, then masks need to go asap. They aren't what's best for society as a whole IMHO.

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Its really hard to know what actually works and what doesn't when you have 100s of different scientific studies supporting both sides and politics involved. Seems to me its time to move to a model where the business owners get to determine whether or not patrons need to mask up.

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8 year olds, dude.

The problem is, when multiple variables change at the same time, and politicians err on the side of caution. I knew the second masks were announced that if the trend held up as it did in so many other areas, we were likely going to start coming down with or without masks soon due to immunity within the state. I assumed from the get go it would be attributed to bars closing and masks rather than more and more in the population becoming immune. Hey, it might be a combination of all 3. But there's no way of knowing. Now that we have immunity than we did 2 months ago, I'd like to see more and more restrictions eased to see if it's our mitigation, or more the immunity that's causing the decrease. I highly suspect it's the population becoming immune. But we may never know if we keep middling around all the way to a vaccine.

The problem is "leaders" think their minor policies like closing bars early and mandating masks are helping, and they point to graphs even though there's no correlation between policy dates and curves.

No government leaders wants to say "How this virus spreads is based on factors completely beyond my control: population density, public transport, climate, and latitude. Short of shutting everything down, nothing I can do will make a significant impact on the spread of this virus. And that is only delaying the inevitable."

Don't think so. At least not on the whole. There is still a good majority of the public that flat out hates wearing them. Eventually, those will just say f*** it and wear them less and less. I don't care if someone wants to wear a mask the rest of their life. It won't affect me and won't be a part of my life. But I think those will be few and far between.

Even in Japan, they don't wear them all the time when there isn't a pandemic. Just mass public transit and things like that. You can pull up pictures of Japanese at grocery stores without them. Hopefully we start to trend to where we only wear them when it really makes sense now that we are trending down on cases. That's super spreading type of events with thousands of people indoors at once. Not a quick in and out trip to HEB.

Quote: "If they aren't making a major difference, then masks need to go asap. They aren't what's best for society as a whole IMHO."

Personally I disagree. The masks are generally not huge inconveniences for a while, but even small to medium impact is worth doing just like 6 foot social distancing. If it slows the spread down enough to save even a few lives and free us from the doom and gloomers to allow us a football season then I am damn well going to do it. I think the kids should be in school (I have three in HS or college) and I think we should be able to have football season.

I think the politics of 25% capacity is far more B.S. than being asked to wear a mask even if we know it is not THE solution to everything.

zachsccr said:

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Can anyone explain the logic to extending it for 3 months? There has to be some logic or science here right? They didn't just say "eff it, 3 months sounds good"...

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Yes they did.

There isn't any definitive proof what the impact is. Maybe on an individual level, but not on populations as a whole. Mountains of data is pouring in all over the world that shows mask mandates don't "stop" the spread. Might slow it down a little, but that is very hard to prove without a time machine. The virus infects a certain percentage and then trends down. Appears to be around 20%. Politicians and health officials look at the the very flawed infection rates......err on the side of extreme caution and keep going. It's all they know what to do. They certainly don't want to be the first to put themselves at risk for blame. There is a significant amount of people who are scared and won't be happy until there are zero cases for weeks.

Sorry this is a little snarky.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Cdc doesn't seem to think they are effective, otherwise explain the 6 foot radius, mask or no mask quarantine rule:

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It's an extra layer of precaution But to be clear you think a sneeze or caught through a mask will enter the air the same as one without a mask?

Proposition Joe said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Cdc doesn't seem to think they are effective, otherwise explain the 6 foot radius, mask or no mask quarantine rule:

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I won't debate the data on whether they are effective or not, but with that logic seat belts don't help because people who wear them also die.

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How effective would seatbelts be if everyone got to make their own out of random material and sell them to anyone without any standardization?

t - cam said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Cdc doesn't seem to think they are effective, otherwise explain the 6 foot radius, mask or no mask quarantine rule:

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It's an extra layer of precaution But to be clear you think a sneeze or caught through a mask will enter the air the same as one without a mask?

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I'm so sick of this argument. If I need to sneeze or cough it's into my elbow or into my shirt. Basically when I hear this I hear, "people are Neanderthals with terrible hygiene and they need big brother to mandate how they exist because they are too stupid or gross to exist on their own in a civilized society"

coolerguy12 said:

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t - cam said:

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HowdyTexasAggies said:

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Cdc doesn't seem to think they are effective, otherwise explain the 6 foot radius, mask or no mask quarantine rule:

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It's an extra layer of precaution But to be clear you think a sneeze or caught through a mask will enter the air the same as one without a mask?

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I'm so sick of this argument. If I need to sneeze or cough it's into my elbow or into my shirt. Basically when I hear this I hear, "people are Neanderthals with terrible hygiene and they need big brother to mandate how they exist because they are too stupid or gross to exist on their own in a civilized society"

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Almost as universal a truth as death and taxes.