Imagine that. Herd immunity among the young and healthy while doing our best to protect the elderly

What a novel concept

One of my employees caught it last week. He's obese and has diabetes(not sure which type) but the worst he got was a bad cough. He's 22. I was actually afraid for him as he is a prime suspect for this disease to kill him but the worst he got was a bad cough.

"Herd Mentality..."

beerad12man said:

---

AgE Doc said:

---

"Herd Mentality..."

---

??

---

"Herd Mentality", was what the President referenced when discussing his administration's new Herd Immunity plan and policies with regards to their guidance to individual states on how to ease mitigation efforts with regard to the COVID pandemic. Telling some danger zone states to drop their mask encouragement/mandates.

With a vaccine very likely less than 6 months away it seems reckless and unnecessary to try and achieve herd immunity through natural infection. As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily. That number will go up significantly in the coming months if we stop the mitigation efforts as Dr. Atlas (former Stanford Radiologist, and Fox News talking head) and the White House have suggested to many of the states with rising infection rates.

In my own clinic and in our county we have seen an increase in COVID cases in the last couple of weeks. I am worried we are at or nearing the nadir of our curve and are about to start back upwards. I hope that I am wrong, but their seems to be a significant percentage of the rural Texas population that is disregarding social distancing and mask policies in the community, schools and at large public gatherings (high school football games). These safe guards in recent weeks aren't being model by all areas of national leadership and so it undermines efforts to get the prerequisite public buy-in necessary to see these daily death tolls decline.

Quote:

---

As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily.

---

False.

We're not even near that number with the legacy reporting.

http://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3137347

Keegan99 said:

---

Quote:

---

As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily.

---

False.

We're not even near that number with the legacy reporting.

http://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3137347

---

AgE Doc said:

---

Keegan99 said:

---

Quote:

---

As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily.

---

False.

We're not even near that number with the legacy reporting.

http://texags.com/forums/84/topics/3137347

---

---

How can you possibly pretend to say you know what you're talking about in this and use this number. Over 50% of daily numbers reported are 3-12 weeks old. Despite poor communication by the government, any person serious about understanding the former epidemic would know this.

Quote:

---

I hope that I am wrong

---

You are. HTH

LOL at using the CDC for any kind of guidance. I don't believe any figures/guidance they give, including masks.

Quote:

---

Surgical masks were not designed as filters and were not intended to be used as filters. Surgical masks were designed to be used by surgeons standing face down over an operating table holding a patient with an open wound. The surgeon wearing the mask would be able to talk to others in the room without discharging spittle droplets into the patient's wound. Spittle droplets are large and can cause infection.
I witnessed a test of surgical masks. Small plaster particles were generated in a room. They were visible as a white dust in the air. A man was properly fitted with a surgical mask and spent a short time in the room. When he came out, the mask was removed. A camera was focused on the man's face. The entire area that had been covered by the mask was coated by the white dust. The camera showed that his nostrils and his mouth had been penetrated by the white dust. The dust particles were measured and found to be around 40 micrometers in diameter. The particles that penetrated the mask were the same diameter.

Covid-19 virus molecules are about 0.1 micrometers in diameter. That is 400 times smaller than the plaster particles that penetrated the mask.

Surgical masks will not prevent the wearer from inhaling or exhaling viruses or bacteria. They provide absolutely no protection for either the wearer or anyone nearby. They create a very dangerous false sense of security for everyone. They also force the wearer to rebreathe carbon dioxide, which will, over time, reduce the wearer's blood oxygen level. That can become very dangerous, especially for older people.

This farce is being promoted by sleazy politicians who believe that if they can convince people that they are protecting them or creating a safe environment for them by pushing this mask farce, those people will re-elect them.

All politicians pushing this dangerous mask farce should be voted out of office as soon as possible.

---

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/09/the_cdc_director_has_doubled_down_on_masks_but_is_he_wrong.html

AgE Doc said:

---

beerad12man said:

---

AgE Doc said:

---

"Herd Mentality..."

---

??

---

"Herd Mentality", was what the President referenced when discussing his administration's new Herd Immunity plan and policies with regards to their guidance to individual states on how to ease mitigation efforts with regard to the COVID pandemic. Telling some danger zone states to drop their mask encouragement/mandates.

With a vaccine very likely less than 6 months away it seems reckless and unnecessary to try and achieve herd immunity through natural infection. As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily. That number will go up significantly in the coming months if we stop the mitigation efforts as Dr. Atlas (former Stanford Radiologist, and Fox News talking head) and the White House have suggested to many of the states with rising infection rates.

In my own clinic and in our county we have seen an increase in COVID cases in the last couple of weeks. I am worried we are at or nearing the nadir of our curve and are about to start back upwards. I hope that I am wrong, but their seems to be a significant percentage of the rural Texas population that is disregarding social distancing and mask policies in the community, schools and at large public gatherings (high school football games). These safe guards in recent weeks aren't being model by all areas of national leadership and so it undermines efforts to get the prerequisite public buy-in necessary to see these daily death tolls decline.

---

But what does any of this have to do with what the OP is about? Atlas, in this particular case, is speaking about keeping schools open with measures in place to protect the most vulnerable. Schools need to be fully opened and, in only the most extreme cases, should student be allowed to do distance learning as it effects their ability to learn, their mental health and our future. It's a price we have to pay if it leads to any uptick in Covid cases and unfortunately, even hospitalizations and even deaths. And the nice side effect is the herd immunity that will be expanded as a result. But make no mistake, regardless of that, kids have to be back in schools from Kinder through grad school as its what best for our youth and our nation.

AgE Doc said:

---

beerad12man said:

---

AgE Doc said:

---

"Herd Mentality..."

---

??

---

"Herd Mentality", was what the President referenced when discussing his administration's new Herd Immunity plan and policies with regards to their guidance to individual states on how to ease mitigation efforts with regard to the COVID pandemic. Telling some danger zone states to drop their mask encouragement/mandates.

With a vaccine very likely less than 6 months away it seems reckless and unnecessary to try and achieve herd immunity through natural infection. As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily. That number will go up significantly in the coming months if we stop the mitigation efforts as Dr. Atlas (former Stanford Radiologist, and Fox News talking head) and the White House have suggested to many of the states with rising infection rates.

In my own clinic and in our county we have seen an increase in COVID cases in the last couple of weeks. I am worried we are at or nearing the nadir of our curve and are about to start back upwards. I hope that I am wrong, but their seems to be a significant percentage of the rural Texas population that is disregarding social distancing and mask policies in the community, schools and at large public gatherings (high school football games). These safe guards in recent weeks aren't being model by all areas of national leadership and so it undermines efforts to get the prerequisite public buy-in necessary to see these daily death tolls decline.

---

So, just 6 more months? Have you seen what the first 6 months has done to us? Is that even a guarantee? I mean, don't get me wrong, I sure hope that's the case. But in the meantime, letting children develop and trying to bring back society is important. In no way, shape, or form can someone see the negative psychological effects that have been done in these last 6 months and think another 6 months of social distancing is prudent. I can't understand that. We are created ever lasting effects.

No, we should have achieved herd immunity among the young and healthy crowd from April through June. We'd be much better off as a country and our death numbers would be about the same, arguably less had we just kept it out of nursing homes from the beginning.

Some people don't have "just 6 more months", financially, mentally, emotionally, etc.

AgE Doc said:

---

beerad12man said:

---

AgE Doc said:

---

"Herd Mentality..."

---

??

---

"Herd Mentality", was what the President referenced when discussing his administration's new Herd Immunity plan and policies with regards to their guidance to individual states on how to ease mitigation efforts with regard to the COVID pandemic. Telling some danger zone states to drop their mask encouragement/mandates.

With a vaccine very likely less than 6 months away it seems reckless and unnecessary to try and achieve herd immunity through natural infection. As a country we are still near 1,000 people dying daily. That number will go up significantly in the coming months if we stop the mitigation efforts as Dr. Atlas (former Stanford Radiologist, and Fox News talking head) and the White House have suggested to many of the states with rising infection rates.

In my own clinic and in our county we have seen an increase in COVID cases in the last couple of weeks. I am worried we are at or nearing the nadir of our curve and are about to start back upwards. I hope that I am wrong, but their seems to be a significant percentage of the rural Texas population that is disregarding social distancing and mask policies in the community, schools and at large public gatherings (high school football games). These safe guards in recent weeks aren't being model by all areas of national leadership and so it undermines efforts to get the prerequisite public buy-in necessary to see these daily death tolls decline.

---

You didn't even read the OP did you. Why do we need to apply the same mitigation policies to the least vulnerable? Especially on a college campus?

0.0002. That's what the CDC says about 20-49 year olds. Why any 20-49 year olds business was shut down is beyond me, and especially continues to be shut down. Why they keep asking 20-49 year olds to social distance is beyond me.

Here in texas, we will hit herd immunity long before 6 months out anyways. We already have with just minor mitigations(trust me, bars are opened as restaurants, and no one wears masks around family/friends which is the biggest spreader. That quick little minute trip to HEB isn't doing s***, and that 40 second walk to your table to sit down without a mask for 45 minutes isn't either). Simply keeping it out of nursing homes will keep our numbers down from this point forward with 23% of the population already infected in Texas.

Even 50-69 is 0.005. From day 1, if you let 60-70% of these age groups get it, our fatality rate would be next to nothing, all the while being just about over this for the elderly to begin living their life sooner, too.

AgE Doc said:

---

beerad12man said:

---

AgE Doc said:

---

"Herd Mentality..."

---

??

---

In my own clinic and in our county we have seen an increase in COVID cases in the last couple of weeks. I am worried we are at or nearing the nadir of our curve and are about to start back upwards. I hope that I am wrong, but their seems to be a significant percentage of the rural Texas population that is disregarding social distancing and mask policies in the community, schools and at large public gatherings (high school football games). These safe guards in recent weeks aren't being model by all areas of national leadership and so it undermines efforts to get the prerequisite public buy-in necessary to see these daily death tolls decline.

---

You're right, A SIGNIFICANT portion of people have said f*** it. Even more so over the next 6 months will continue to say f*** it. You're fighting a losing cause right now.

And yet we are nowhere close to our limits in the state. Your clinic seems to be in the rare case as everywhere else is still going down despite this.

US cases are spiking. See 91-DIVOC. Our hospital census climbing back up. It's Labor Day effect. No surprise. "Let it rip" mentality will have its repercussions. However - as many on here have discussed, I don't think many people give a crap anymore. It's just painful to see on my end. So many dying in hospital still.

Sorry the medical community is going through this, but that doesn't change the fact that no where in human history have we asked the young/healthy to sacrifice a year or two of their lives to protect the few. It's not natural. It's not even remotely reasonable what is being asked of the world right now.

In the end, our population will increase. Our average age of death will increase. Human's have survived far worse diseases with far less medical treatment/advances. Not only survived, but prospered and became stronger through them.

And 98-99% of families will likely go through something WORSE than covid, the virus itself, in the year(s) 2020 and 2021. My family alone has had two deaths, neither of which were because of covid. One was in large part because of some of the fallout(depression) of covid. It's tough to keep asking people to sacrifice when it isn't in their best interest for them or their family statistically. And despite the covid deaths, the vast majority of America is better off with human contact and living life as close to normal as possible to the future of our country. We can do this and still protect as much of the most vulnerable as realistically possible.

But in the end, this is a pandemic, and it was always going to cause some heartache one way or another. In a free nation, for better or worse, it was likely to affect us more so than some more controlled populations. I'll take the "for better" part long term.

I mean it makes sense that the two of you are seeing different things. He works in a hospital so of course he is going to be exposed to the worst case scenarios far more often, regardless of how common that scenario actually is. You're a regular person and considering that the vast majority of people have not contracted the illness and then the vast majority of those that do contract it are not likely to have severe symptoms you're going to experience the other end of the spectrum.

There is probably a term for the bias but the closest thing I can think of is base rate fallacy.

Marcus Aurelius said:

---

US cases are spiking. See 91-DIVOC. Our hospital census climbing back up. It's Labor Day effect. No surprise. "Let it rip" mentality will have its repercussions. However - as many on here have discussed, I don't think many people give a crap anymore. It's just painful to see on my end. So many dying in hospital still.

---

Hospitalizations in the hot states continue to decrease.

I don't keep up with all of the nonsense on tv much. But, isn't Dr. Atlas the person that caused all of the other doctors and scientists at Stanford to speak out publicly against his dangerous views? Seems like his name sounds familiar.

hmmm, our cases in Georgia are plummeting. Post Labor day 7 day average is down 11%.

I do see where France, Spain, and the UK are spiking again.

I believe they are spiking because lock downs don't work with a virus. Soon as you come back out it spreads again. It's going to run its course. So they killed their economy for nothing. Covid is still active whether they hide or not. Without the lockdowns the world would be virtually covid free, as a pandemic, like Sweden is today.

Even if true what has been most frustrating to me is that this assessment (going back months now) is one sided and places limited counter balance weight to the significant costs these shutdown/restriction policies have across numerous metrics (economic, societal, mental health, child development, SEC Football, etc..)

We have to accept risk in the equation of costs and benefits. Not everyone risk is the same and not everyone has the same tolerance for risk. For me, there is too much over regulation of personal decision making. Inform, argue a position, and then let people exercise their own judgment and get back to customary freedom and decision making.

For many, like myself, we are ready to return to much greater normalcy while being much more cognizant of personal habits, hygiene and perhaps where, when and what we chose to do.