According to Trump & Atlas, re: the vaccine...

- Distribution, by the military, will begin 24 hours after FDA approval.

- 100M doses ("and likely much more than that") to be manufactured by the end of the year - January, at the latest - for "high risk" and "first responder" individuals.

- "Hundreds of millions of doses" more to be available each month thereafter.

- Expected to have enough vaccines for "every American" by April.

In other words, Average Joe citizen will likely be able to get the vaccine starting around February or so, through March, with it widely available by April.

This, again, according to Trump & Atlas, with six weeks left until the election, so do with that information what you will.

Thoughts?

absolutely not

money is not going to offset the fear of the unknown associated with an experimental platform like what moderna is rolling out

you don't have to be an anti-vaxxer to see that

Aggie95 said:

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I know of a few warehouse projects that sprung up this week (in real quick fashion) that are vaccine related. Projects need to be operational by end of October.

The time line might scare a lot of people off, but this is not a cost cutting or corner cutting vaccine. Literally every dollar has been thrown at these vaccines instead of others...while removing red tape.

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Yep, CDC told states to be ready to distribute Nov 1. Might not have the vaccine by Nov 1, but need to be ready in case we do.

so a mrna vaccine stood up in less than a year isn't experimental?

let's answer that first

has there been one before? do we have long term effect studies? do we know if it causes autoimmune issues over time? leukemia?

you aren't going to get those impacts in 9 months. but feel free to show where I'm wrong here.

it's not the Spanish flu

that's pretty good, right?

it's got to be mandated cuz of the liability associated with reopening for corps

I still think there's going to be a lot of pushback tho, from non-vulnerable workers. It's going to require months of messaging to convince people it's safe to take.

cone said:

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lol no f-ing way

good luck getting healthy people to take this experimental vaccine en masse

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At what point is it non-experimental?

We will be at herd immunity by the end of the year of not sooner. Why doEs everyone need a vaccine?

Why can't it be the individuals choice? Get it if you want don't if you don't. Pretty simple.

yes I agree

that's why the corps will mandate it

but I think employees (rightly so) will play the safety and well-being card so not sure how that will play out

all it will take is a single NYT The Daily podcast saying how employees feel trapped having to take the Trump vaccine and get someone to say "leukemia" on the record and HR departments at the biggest places will start to get spooked.

that's why I think it's going to require a massive public messaging campaign to assist the vaccines and whatever mandates. and a Biden win.

jmo

I don't think the corps will need to mandate it. The fact that it is available and the employees have the option should eliminate the liability. Govt has said it will be free, and I'm sure businesses will do vaccine drives like they do with the flu.

Do everything possible so the employees can get it if they choose and then not getting it is purely a choice and the liability goes away.

but then if your office isn't fully vaccinated how do "return safely" and drop the extreme social distancing requirements etc. everything has been built up psychologically to where the tech advance deus ex gets us back to crack-the-whip business as usual.

I take the point that if a vaccine is out there and you choose not to take it and think you got sick on campus, you might be really sad but the company isn't going to get sued, just like you couldn't sue for getting the flu on campus.

I appreciate your input/opinion

The vaccine only needs to be 50% effective to get approval. That's why companies (and government orgs) will mandate it.

My company has a kiosk that takes your temp and asks you COVID questions before you can get in the building. Then there's a nurse inside to test every employee on a bi weekly schedule.

You think when there at 50% efficacious vaccine available, they are just going to say: "make a responsible choice everyone! "

BiochemAg97 said:

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The key thing is once the vaccine is widely available, there is no justification for masks or lockdowns. If you don't like your risks, stay home or vaccinate, but the rest of America shouldn't have to cater to you just because you don't want to get a shot.

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There was no justification in the first place. If you don't want to get sick you can stay home. Have we all forgotten that and accepted lock downs?

the effectiveness isn't the issue

it's the safety of the vaccine platform

amercer said:

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The vaccine only needs to be 50% effective to get approval. That's why companies (and government orgs) will mandate it.

My company has a kiosk that takes your temp and asks you COVID questions before you can get in the building. Then there's a nurse inside to test every employee on a bi weekly schedule.

You think when there at 50% efficacious vaccine available, they are just going to say: "make a responsible choice everyone! "

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That is a minimum. Might want to wait and see what the test data say before we freak out about 50% effective. I suspect it will be more than 50% effective, but you need a lot less statistical data to show that something that is say 80% effective is at least 50% effective. If you have an 80%+/-20% you know it is at least 50% effective, but if you have 80% and want to show at least 70%, your confidence interval needs to be +/-10% and that takes more data.

Oh, btw, flu vaccine In some years is as low as 20% effective. In the best years it is about 80% effective.

But at the end of the day, if you don't get the vaccine and get sick, that is on you. Polling suggests 1/3 won't get the vaccine... that means 2/3 get the vaccine (which would be a surprise to me because only about 50% get the flu vaccine).

Companies are about avoiding liability risk. Is there more risk of liability from forcing people to get the vaccine or from someone who doesn't get the vaccine getting sick. Pharma companies are shielded from vaccine injury lawsuits, but a company that forces employees to get it have no such protection. So, if you are forced to get a vaccine and suffer a perceived vaccine injury, do you go to the govt process for your vaccine injury claim with a small payout or do you go after your employer and hope to win the jury lottery?

Do govts mandate it? Yes, I think some states will. If Biden wins, I think we could see a nationwide mandate. Would companies prefer the govt mandate it? Probably because then they get the benefits of a mandate but none of the blame.

chickenfingers said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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The key thing is once the vaccine is widely available, there is no justification for masks or lockdowns. If you don't like your risks, stay home or vaccinate, but the rest of America shouldn't have to cater to you just because you don't want to get a shot.

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There was no justification in the first place. If you don't want to get sick you can stay home. Have we all forgotten that and accepted lock downs?

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I completely agree with you. But the pro makes argument for wear a mask to protect others and your rights end where your virus infringes my rights also apply to vaccines. if you are vaccinated and immune, you can't spread the virus to others.