SkiMo said:

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flogmat said:

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beerad12man said:

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flogmat said:

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bay fan said:

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Gumby said:

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I dont understand why fat people keep eating, smokers keep smoking and drinkers keep drinking. If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health. But others have decided that dangerous, self destructive behaviors are allowed. And many are pushing to legalize drugs in the US.

Let's at least be consistent here. If we are going to stop all risky behaviors, we have a lot of work to do.

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Can we ban *******s while we are at it? People with high risk behaviors hurt only themselves. COVID deniers hurt others. It's not that hard to understand.

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Really don't like this take. You are insinuating that the COVID deniers are being selfish. Who is more selfish? The person with high risk behaviors who hurts themselves? Or the person who wants to shut everyone else's world down to make themself feel more comfortable?

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100%. Sorry, but there are 330 million people in America. As harsh as it sounds, I'd argue that about 325+ million of them would have been better off having never heard of covid and just believing it was a bad "flu" season. Most of us wouldn't have known the difference.

No media fear, no publicity, etc. America as a whole would have been better off. Someone will call me selfish or a murderer for that take. I'm beyond giving a s*** anymore. Look, I get that this is unrealistic. It was bound to get out somehow, and obviously some mitigation / at the very least, general knowledge of the disease for the public was necessary.

I consider those that impose their beliefs on how others should behave as far more selfish than those that choose to take that information and act as they see fit for their life. Do and act as you see fit. Stop telling others to behave a certain way to protect you.

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I could not agree more. I really feel like, if not for crazy media attention, this thing would not have been anywhere near as blown up as it has been.

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Can you point to a time in recent memory where hospitals and ICUs were pretty much at max capacity? Whether you like to believe it or not, the threat is real. And it's real for people who need to go to the hospital that don't have covid but there is no room for their emergencies. I just can't understand the deniers here. It's super bizarre.

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SkiMo said:

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flogmat said:

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SkiMo said:

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flogmat said:

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beerad12man said:

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flogmat said:

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bay fan said:

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Gumby said:

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I dont understand why fat people keep eating, smokers keep smoking and drinkers keep drinking. If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health. But others have decided that dangerous, self destructive behaviors are allowed. And many are pushing to legalize drugs in the US.

Let's at least be consistent here. If we are going to stop all risky behaviors, we have a lot of work to do.

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Can we ban *******s while we are at it? People with high risk behaviors hurt only themselves. COVID deniers hurt others. It's not that hard to understand.

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Really don't like this take. You are insinuating that the COVID deniers are being selfish. Who is more selfish? The person with high risk behaviors who hurts themselves? Or the person who wants to shut everyone else's world down to make themself feel more comfortable?

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100%. Sorry, but there are 330 million people in America. As harsh as it sounds, I'd argue that about 325+ million of them would have been better off having never heard of covid and just believing it was a bad "flu" season. Most of us wouldn't have known the difference.

No media fear, no publicity, etc. America as a whole would have been better off. Someone will call me selfish or a murderer for that take. I'm beyond giving a s*** anymore. Look, I get that this is unrealistic. It was bound to get out somehow, and obviously some mitigation / at the very least, general knowledge of the disease for the public was necessary.

I consider those that impose their beliefs on how others should behave as far more selfish than those that choose to take that information and act as they see fit for their life. Do and act as you see fit. Stop telling others to behave a certain way to protect you.

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I could not agree more. I really feel like, if not for crazy media attention, this thing would not have been anywhere near as blown up as it has been.

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Can you point to a time in recent memory where hospitals and ICUs were pretty much at max capacity? Whether you like to believe it or not, the threat is real. And it's real for people who need to go to the hospital that don't have covid but there is no room for their emergencies. I just can't understand the deniers here. It's super bizarre.

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This is exactly where the disconnect between those who are on both sides seem to get into rifts. I don't think it is black and white. I'm not saying that the virus isn't real. It very much is. My argument is that it might not be as sensationalized without some major pushing.

I can't comment to ICU capacity, etc, because I'm no expert. But, I think you're seeing it as a result of a surge of cases due to a new strain, and not necessarily the result of a killer virus that takes out everything in its path. The new strain is here, it is attacking since there was zero (or very little) immunity, and we as humans are adjusting. Again, just a theory.

Another thing that I see is the result of the "panic" nature of human beings. There are lots of situations that I've experienced personally where people ran to the hospital with a simple onset of symptoms. In the past, without the sensationalization, those people would have just let the virus run through its course.

Don't take this to mean that I have any idea medically what I'm talking about. But, this has been my experience.

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I honestly have never met one person in my life that has gone to the ER for something like the flu or a virus. Not one and I'm 41. I know multiple that have with covid. And we're talking about hardcore Trump loving republicans that were previously *****ing about masks. And I had a 44 year old hometown friend die and another who is 38 that is in ICU on ECMO barely hanging on.

I say all that and understand that others don't have those same stories. But again, never once met anyone that went to the ER for the flu or a virus. Now, maybe I do know some who have gone but they never announced it. We pretty much all know what we're getting with the flu or a common virus. And while most people that get covid live, many go to the ER and ICU, and many die, and many end up with financially devastating medical bills.

I started off being crazy about this whole thing and scared to leave the house. And I drank in too much of the media in the beginning that it literally sent me to the doctor for what I thought might be the onset of a heart attack...but it was stress/anxiety. I knew at that point I had to turn off the TV and start trying to sift through the bull****, get to the facts, and figure out my comfort level going forward. Where I am now is that I respect the virus and do not want to get it. If I get it, whatever happens happens. I wear my mask and I go to bars and restaurants and have even flown to go on vacation. But I do so as responsibly as possible. I can agree that the media has increased the fear level but this whole thing is new for pretty much every living person on earth. If there is another that happens in our lifetime, I hope the response is better.

TL;DR
Turn off the tv. Get to the facts. Respect the virus. Respect others. Find your comfort level. Live your life.

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SkiMo said:

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ElephantRider said:

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TexjbA&M said:

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Let me guess...East Texas?

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More specifically, NE Texas? I say this as a born and raised and recovered NE Texan.

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Capitol Ag said:

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ElephantRider said:

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People in my hometown, where cases have surged recently, are having a big benefit/fundraiser concert at a bar. The beneficiary of this event is someone who literally almost died recently, from covid.

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And for the record, I have no problem with this. Socializing is a vital necessity for human health. It is a trade off. Yes, there is a risk. But to me, it's worth that risk. To those in attendance it is obviously worth it too. Try to understand them and not judge them. Things aren't that clear cut as you are making it out to be. Have some grace about it and it's fine to say that the action isn't for you, but understand that not everyone feels that way and there are very good reasons why.

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ElephantRider said:

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SkiMo said:

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ElephantRider said:

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TexjbA&M said:

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Let me guess...East Texas?

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More specifically, NE Texas? I say this as a born and raised and recovered NE Texan.

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You guys are good.

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Quote:

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I say all that and understand that others don't have those same stories. But again, never once met anyone that went to the ER for the flu or a virus. Now, maybe I do know some who have gone but they never announced it. We pretty much all know what we're getting with the flu or a common virus. And while most people that get covid live, many go to the ER and ICU, and many die, and many end up with financially devastating medical bills.

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ElephantRider said:

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Capitol Ag said:

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ElephantRider said:

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People in my hometown, where cases have surged recently, are having a big benefit/fundraiser concert at a bar. The beneficiary of this event is someone who literally almost died recently, from covid.

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And for the record, I have no problem with this. Socializing is a vital necessity for human health. It is a trade off. Yes, there is a risk. But to me, it's worth that risk. To those in attendance it is obviously worth it too. Try to understand them and not judge them. Things aren't that clear cut as you are making it out to be. Have some grace about it and it's fine to say that the action isn't for you, but understand that not everyone feels that way and there are very good reasons why.

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I think it's just the irony of the situation that gets me.

And in this situation, it is as clear cut as I'm making it out to be.

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Gumby said:

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If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health.

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SkiMo said:

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flogmat said:

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beerad12man said:

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flogmat said:

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bay fan said:

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Gumby said:

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I dont understand why fat people keep eating, smokers keep smoking and drinkers keep drinking. If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health. But others have decided that dangerous, self destructive behaviors are allowed. And many are pushing to legalize drugs in the US.

Let's at least be consistent here. If we are going to stop all risky behaviors, we have a lot of work to do.

---

Can we ban *******s while we are at it? People with high risk behaviors hurt only themselves. COVID deniers hurt others. It's not that hard to understand.

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Really don't like this take. You are insinuating that the COVID deniers are being selfish. Who is more selfish? The person with high risk behaviors who hurts themselves? Or the person who wants to shut everyone else's world down to make themself feel more comfortable?

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100%. Sorry, but there are 330 million people in America. As harsh as it sounds, I'd argue that about 325+ million of them would have been better off having never heard of covid and just believing it was a bad "flu" season. Most of us wouldn't have known the difference.

No media fear, no publicity, etc. America as a whole would have been better off. Someone will call me selfish or a murderer for that take. I'm beyond giving a s*** anymore. Look, I get that this is unrealistic. It was bound to get out somehow, and obviously some mitigation / at the very least, general knowledge of the disease for the public was necessary.

I consider those that impose their beliefs on how others should behave as far more selfish than those that choose to take that information and act as they see fit for their life. Do and act as you see fit. Stop telling others to behave a certain way to protect you.

---

I could not agree more. I really feel like, if not for crazy media attention, this thing would not have been anywhere near as blown up as it has been.

---

Can you point to a time in recent memory where hospitals and ICUs were pretty much at max capacity? Whether you like to believe it or not, the threat is real. And it's real for people who need to go to the hospital that don't have covid but there is no room for their emergencies. I just can't understand the deniers here. It's super bizarre.

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Gumby said:

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Having said that, we have ~1M hospital beds in the US and currently less than 100K hospital beds occupied by COVID patients. So about 10% of the available hospital beds in the US are occupied by COVID positive patients.

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Quote:

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There are 597 COVID-19 patients currently hospitalized in Utah, state data shows. Of those, 209 are in intensive care units, according to state data. About 86% of all Utah ICU beds are occupied as of Thursday, including nearly 89% of ICU beds in Utah's referral hospitals, which are the 16 health care facilities that are able to provide the best COVID-19 care.

About 57% of non-ICU hospital beds are occupied in Utah Thursday, state data shows.

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SkiMo said:

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flogmat said:

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beerad12man said:

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flogmat said:

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bay fan said:

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Gumby said:

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I dont understand why fat people keep eating, smokers keep smoking and drinkers keep drinking. If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health. But others have decided that dangerous, self destructive behaviors are allowed. And many are pushing to legalize drugs in the US.

Let's at least be consistent here. If we are going to stop all risky behaviors, we have a lot of work to do.

---

Can we ban *******s while we are at it? People with high risk behaviors hurt only themselves. COVID deniers hurt others. It's not that hard to understand.

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Really don't like this take. You are insinuating that the COVID deniers are being selfish. Who is more selfish? The person with high risk behaviors who hurts themselves? Or the person who wants to shut everyone else's world down to make themself feel more comfortable?

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100%. Sorry, but there are 330 million people in America. As harsh as it sounds, I'd argue that about 325+ million of them would have been better off having never heard of covid and just believing it was a bad "flu" season. Most of us wouldn't have known the difference.

No media fear, no publicity, etc. America as a whole would have been better off. Someone will call me selfish or a murderer for that take. I'm beyond giving a s*** anymore. Look, I get that this is unrealistic. It was bound to get out somehow, and obviously some mitigation / at the very least, general knowledge of the disease for the public was necessary.

I consider those that impose their beliefs on how others should behave as far more selfish than those that choose to take that information and act as they see fit for their life. Do and act as you see fit. Stop telling others to behave a certain way to protect you.

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I could not agree more. I really feel like, if not for crazy media attention, this thing would not have been anywhere near as blown up as it has been.

---

Can you point to a time in recent memory where hospitals and ICUs were pretty much at max capacity? Whether you like to believe it or not, the threat is real. And it's real for people who need to go to the hospital that don't have covid but there is no room for their emergencies. I just can't understand the deniers here. It's super bizarre.

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Quote:

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Never in the history of mankind(at least in this country) have we reacted this way. To quarantine/limit the young and healthy and their behaviors.

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Gumby said:

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bay fan said:

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Gumby said:

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I dont understand why fat people keep eating, smokers keep smoking and drinkers keep drinking. If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health. But others have decided that dangerous, self destructive behaviors are allowed. And many are pushing to legalize drugs in the US.

Let's at least be consistent here. If we are going to stop all risky behaviors, we have a lot of work to do.

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Can we ban *******s while we are at it? People with high risk behaviors hurt only themselves. COVID deniers hurt others. It's not that hard to understand.

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Why didn't we ban sex when HIV was spreading? That was the primary means of transmission for a disease more deadly than COVID. Its not that hard to understand.

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NASAg03 said:

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rojo_ag said:

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Quote:

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Never in the history of mankind(at least in this country) have we reacted this way. To quarantine/limit the young and healthy and their behaviors.

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1918-1919 says, "Hi."


This is the same playbook used to mitigate the spread of the Spanish Flu (albeit the Spanish Flu was more deadly for younger people).

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Yet they kept colleges going and had football seasons, even when football wasn't a money maker.

The response hasn't been the same, especially considering affected demographics and individual health.

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rojo_ag said:

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Quote:

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100%. Sorry, but there are 330 million people in America. As harsh as it sounds, I'd argue that about 325+ million of them would have been better off having never heard of covid and just believing it was a bad "flu" season. Most of us wouldn't have known the difference.

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I know that you know that is not how it would play out.

When is the last time temporary morgues where needed for a bad flu? During a bad flu season, how many healthcare workers have contracted the flu and died? In addition, what about the 250K+ excess deaths in the country?

Let's look at Texas. Take the last five years of the flu in Texas. Add up the flu deaths for the past five years in Texas. That number still does not equal the amount of Covid deaths since March.

I don't live in fear of the virus. In fact I am sitting in a classroom right now while my students take an exam. We are all masked but pretty difficult to social distance with an almost full classroom.

Nevertheless, the head in the sand approach to this virus would not have ended well.

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Ragoo said:

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SkiMo said:

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flogmat said:

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beerad12man said:

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flogmat said:

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bay fan said:

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Gumby said:

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I dont understand why fat people keep eating, smokers keep smoking and drinkers keep drinking. If it were up to me I would ban sugar, cigarettes and alcohol to protect everyone's health. But others have decided that dangerous, self destructive behaviors are allowed. And many are pushing to legalize drugs in the US.

Let's at least be consistent here. If we are going to stop all risky behaviors, we have a lot of work to do.

---

Can we ban *******s while we are at it? People with high risk behaviors hurt only themselves. COVID deniers hurt others. It's not that hard to understand.

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Really don't like this take. You are insinuating that the COVID deniers are being selfish. Who is more selfish? The person with high risk behaviors who hurts themselves? Or the person who wants to shut everyone else's world down to make themself feel more comfortable?

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100%. Sorry, but there are 330 million people in America. As harsh as it sounds, I'd argue that about 325+ million of them would have been better off having never heard of covid and just believing it was a bad "flu" season. Most of us wouldn't have known the difference.

No media fear, no publicity, etc. America as a whole would have been better off. Someone will call me selfish or a murderer for that take. I'm beyond giving a s*** anymore. Look, I get that this is unrealistic. It was bound to get out somehow, and obviously some mitigation / at the very least, general knowledge of the disease for the public was necessary.

I consider those that impose their beliefs on how others should behave as far more selfish than those that choose to take that information and act as they see fit for their life. Do and act as you see fit. Stop telling others to behave a certain way to protect you.

---

I could not agree more. I really feel like, if not for crazy media attention, this thing would not have been anywhere near as blown up as it has been.

---

Can you point to a time in recent memory where hospitals and ICUs were pretty much at max capacity? Whether you like to believe it or not, the threat is real. And it's real for people who need to go to the hospital that don't have covid but there is no room for their emergencies. I just can't understand the deniers here. It's super bizarre.

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pretty much at max capacity? Where are you getting statistics for that? Or is it anecdotal information?

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Duncan Idaho said:

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Ohio
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/11/ohio-hospitals-showing-signs-of-coronavirus-overwhelm-borrowing-refrigerated-trucks-and-ventilators.html

Texas and AZ using and requesting
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-arizona-coronavirus-deaths-refrigerated-trucks-morgues/

Indiana preparing
https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/surge-in-deaths-from-covid-19-forces-preparation-of-refrigerated-trucks-in-vigo-co..php

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Bassmaster said:

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Where in the article does it say Texas and Arizona were using the trucks?

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