How will Covid vaccine be distributed to public?

13,890 Views | 139 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by lazuras_dc
cone
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 8:47a, 1/3/21
AG
this seems pretty parochial

the answer is that old people need it more than young people. and that's where the crisis is. and we know that population demands vaccination and isn't lukewarm about it. the line position arguments combined with the relative indifference of the populations slated with higher selected preference for now is snarling this thing.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to cone • 8:55a, 1/3/21
AG
cone said:
this seems pretty parochial

the answer is that old people need it more than young people. and that's where the crisis is. and we know that population demands vaccination and isn't lukewarm about it. the line position arguments combined with the relative indifference of the populations slated with higher selected preference for now is snarling this thing.
So younger EMS/Paramedic/Firefighters shouldn't have received it yet either? Or younger, healthy physicians?
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3rd Generation Ag
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9:54a, 1/3/21
AG
On front line people, just saw on facebook that the receptionist at my high school just died from Covid. Even with visitor restrictions in place, she certainly came in contact with more people that I do as a teacher, since I basically see the same kids over and over. She was the sweetest person and doubled as our interpreter for Spanish speakers.
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aggiederelict
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 10:08a, 1/3/21
Cone has made the position multiple times that forward facing healthcare workers should not receive it before the elderly who aren't institutionalized or even those who work in long term care facilities who have been working non-stop during this pandemic protecting the lives of those residents. Even though the non-institutionalized elderly have the ability to stay at home.

Many have not followed the guidelines that been set to distance especially from those who are most risk. I know people want to see their elderly family members but your lack of patience doesn't change this simple fact that you should be distancing.

I would say the plan for distribution has not been handled well. I understand the frustration with the pathologist who doesn't see patients getting the vaccine first , but this idea that the nurse at the long term care facility shouldn't get the vaccine before the 68 year old who can stay at home is absurd.
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3rd Generation Ag
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10:10a, 1/3/21
AG
Except a large number of us in our 60's and 70's still work and can't stay home.
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cone
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In reply to aggiederelict • 10:18a, 1/3/21
AG
what's more important

the rate of the jabs into arms or the order in which the jabs are applied

especially when demand and population in the early tranches is far less than more vulnerable larger tranches set below them in order

trying to work through the "most deserving" "most vulnerable to infection" (not death or hospitalization per se) populations while vials are sitting unutilized is makes-sense-on-paper-only insanity

the 65+ crowd should not have to wait. if you want to say they queue up with the cops and EMTs etc that's fine. but get jabs into arms.
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aggiederelict
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10:23a, 1/3/21
Well then you should get the vaccine. But for those who can distance should be more patient. That's why the 1b has been opened up. There is large supply of vaccines that hasn't been distributed even though it is available.

Around 35%- 40% of deaths have come from long term care facilities. This needs to get to them immediately as well as the staff. That was part of the plan all along.
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cone
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10:30a, 1/3/21
AG
step back and ask at this second what are the current crises

from where I sit:

- prolonged excess death event
- hospital capacity at its limits
- vacc rate is far too slow, being underutilized
- new variants showing up, possibly leading to reduce vacc efficiency and faster spread (further stressing hospitals)

so with a real mitigation tool in hand, what is the best way to deploy it to address the crises?
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aggiederelict
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In reply to cone • 10:31a, 1/3/21
They should be both have the option to get it at the same time. The idea that you would vaccinate all the residents of a long term care facility but not the staff doesn't make sense.

This isn't about deserving. This is common sense. I agree that there is a big logistics problem here but we knew that would happen.

The plan was to get people tons of people vaccinated by June. It is only January. Now that the vaccine is available suddenly so many people are concerned about Covid when many in this country didn't care enough to stay at home when they could, wear a mask, and not have people in their homes.
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cone
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In reply to aggiederelict • 10:33a, 1/3/21
AG
only caveat I would say is that if you're LTCF staff you sign up now and get the shot or head to the back of the line with the gen pop

no waiting and doubling back
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aggiederelict
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In reply to cone • 10:39a, 1/3/21
I agree with that. Multiple objectives can be achieved. The fact that there are 35 millions vaccines sitting somewhere not being used right now is a problem.

Where is CVS and Walgreens with all of this? I thought they were supposed to be distributing to the public. Smaller retail pharmacies, like HEB and other regional pharmacies, have been in top of this but they can't handle the volume out there.

There needs to be mobile vaccination crews getting into these communities. Provide them proper storage of the vaccine and get people scheduled.
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cone
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In reply to aggiederelict • 11:15a, 1/3/21
AG
from where I sit, the central planning with regard to rollout priority has created system paralysis due to the unforeseen (like low relative demand in the top scheduled groups)

Texas did the right thing opening it up to 65+ as soon as they saw the mess

high demand chaos is much more preferable to low demand order
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to aggiederelict • 11:22a, 1/3/21
AG
I'm not trying to say that LE "deserves" to be in 1b, just think it would be helpful to keep more people on the streets where people need them rather than sick and/or quarantined.

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ursusguy
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12:18p, 1/3/21
AG
The pharmacies were in no way prepared for large scale roll outs of a vaccination program. They are slow on a good day.
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TAMU1990
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In reply to cone • 12:26p, 1/3/21
AG
cone said:
step back and ask at this second what are the current crises

from where I sit:

- prolonged excess death event
- hospital capacity at its limits
- vacc rate is far too slow, being underutilized
- new variants showing up, possibly leading to reduce vacc efficiency and faster spread (further stressing hospitals)

so with a real mitigation tool in hand, what is the best way to deploy it to address the crises?
Saw a news story last night the the NY vaccination sites were close on the weekends. And you have to prove (documentation) why you are getting a vaccine (age, health, frontline, medical, etc). What the heck?
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3rd Generation Ag
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1:02p, 1/3/21
AG
Honestly, have the military set up tent clinics with a mobile refrigeration unit at a place with ample parking like a major mall perhaps and get people vaccinated.
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culdeus
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1:05p, 1/3/21
AG
I'm only half joking when I say they should have handed this thing over to Bezos. That mother****er can put an obscure metric socket wrench on my front porch in two hours.
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GAC06
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In reply to culdeus • 1:08p, 1/3/21
AG
It's not exactly good for Bezos to end this thing
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culdeus
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In reply to GAC06 • 1:11p, 1/3/21
AG
GAC06 said:
It's not exactly good for Bezos to end this thing
True. Wasn't thinking he'd operate in bad faith, but I suppose it's possible.
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cone
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1:14p, 1/3/21
AG
If Harris County can stand up a field hospital that never gets used, they can stand up a drive through vacc center
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to ursusguy • 4:55p, 1/3/21
ursusguy said:
The pharmacies were in no way prepared for large scale roll outs of a vaccination program. They are slow on a good day.
My understanding of standard retail pharmacies is that the pharmacists are already worked to death over there. Some places are better than others, but for the most part they struggle to keep up with their prescription drug business.

Unless I'm mistaken, turning them into a hub for vaccine distribution would put a big dent in their prescription drug filling ability without help.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of how they work can chime in, but it sounds like they can't really afford to have people in line all day getting vaccines, unless they want to bring in a second pharmacist, PA/NP, just to screen/monitor for adverse reactions.

I think mobile vaccine sites run by the national guard would be easier than most people think. You really don't need ultracold storage on site - just a regular refrigerator truck. Set up days and times at different places around the city. The hardest part will be keeping an organized line. I'm sure there's some company that can create an effective online appointment system that could keep it organized and prevent people from waiting in line all day only to be turned away once they run out for the day's allotment.
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Marauder Blue 6
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7:08p, 1/3/21
AG
If Harris County can have drive thru voting, they should be able to do the same for vaccinations.
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cone
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In reply to Marauder Blue 6 • 7:16p, 1/3/21
AG
Marauder Blue 6 said:
If Harris County can have drive thru voting, they should be able to do the same for vaccinations.


turns out this just either isn't an emergency to these public health officials or not as important as voting
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tysker
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In reply to culdeus • 10:24p, 1/3/21
AG
culdeus said:
I'm only half joking when I say they should have handed this thing over to Bezos. That mother****er can put an obscure metric socket wrench on my front porch in two hours.
Wal-Mart. How many of those at high-risk are already shopping in a Wal-Mart once a week?
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Goose61
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10:50p, 1/3/21
AG
I would be wary of getting the vaccine at a pharmacy, as I'm not sure how prepared they are in the case that someone suffers a major anaphylactic episode. That's why I would go to a clinic. That extra amount of reaction time, along with trained healthcare providers on scene, could be a lifesaver.

In regards to administering the vaccine, I was hoping Brazos Valley would be farther along at this point, but to date barely 1400 vaccines have been administered, with no plans to move onto Plan 1B for several more weeks. Going to be an anxious few weeks for olds and those with co-morbidities, with the latest wave still yet to crest, not to mention the more infectious UK strain spreading across the country.

Trying times indeed.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to cone • 11:31p, 1/3/21
cone said:
Marauder Blue 6 said:
If Harris County can have drive thru voting, they should be able to do the same for vaccinations.


turns out this just either isn't an emergency to these public health officials or not as important as voting
Not sure why you'd say that. Public health officials aren't the same people in charge of setting up drive thru voting.

The infrastructure for drive thru voting is a lot different than vaccination. One requires people to be medically trained in some capacity, the other not so much. One requires people to remain on site in case they have an adverse reaction, the other doesn't. Nearby cold storage, screening for vaccine contraindications, etc. One has an entire department that was trying to figure this out for months ahead of time, the other has been trying to figure it out for a few weeks. One doesn't have to worry about supply chain issues, the other does.
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ursusguy
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12:58a, 1/4/21
AG
The recommended observation time after receiving the vaccine also throws in a logistical kink for drive through efforts. If you have ever had a vaccine reaction, there is a recommended 30 observation period. On everyone else, there is still a 15 minute observation time.
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FratboyLegend
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In reply to aggiederelict • 8:53p, 1/4/21
aggiederelict said:
There needs to be mobile vaccination crews getting into these communities. Provide them proper storage of the vaccine and get people scheduled.
I'm sorry, but you are so very off the mark here.

We are talking about inoculating 100+ million people. You really think the best way to do that is for the provider to go to the patient? What world do you live in?

Let private enterprise administer the vaccination to any and all who want it. No priorities. Any other method will be far less efficient.
#CertifiedSIP
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SVaggie84
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7:49a, 1/5/21
AG
So far, I still have no info on how to get the vaccine for my mom. I've been messaging her doctor. I signed her up on a Dallas County site. I've called pharmacies

I still don't know how to get her a shot.
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bigtruckguy3500
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11:00p, 1/5/21
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/05/953779007/hospital-scrambles-to-find-patients-before-freezer-failure-ruins-830-vaccines

Tl;dr - freezer malfunctions at 2am and potentially renders 830 doses unusable by the end of the day. Hospital workers go to work calling around the county and transporting vaccines everywhere they could to ensure nothing was wasted, hitting nursing homes, sherrif's offices, jails, etc.
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cc_ag92
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In reply to bigtruckguy3500 • 5:35a, 1/6/21
AG
First, kudos to them for making it happen.

Second, can we analyze the actions they took to develop a more efficient vaccine distribution plan? Surely they learned something that might be useful to strategists.
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3rd Generation Ag
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6:57a, 1/7/21
AG
Well, if all goes well, Tarrant County health auto called me at 8 pm last night to come in today for the vaccine. It is colder than cold, but I am layering up. Will run by school to get my walker in case the wait is long and there is no place to sit. But by the end of today, I should have shot one.
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cc_ag92
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In reply to 3rd Generation Ag • 7:14a, 1/7/21
AG
Fantastic!! Good luck! Be well!
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lazuras_dc
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7:35a, 1/7/21
AG
This article had some decent ideas:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/03/heres-what-leadership-vaccination-would-look-like/?fbclid=IwAR2s4HT0shBo3MKa2oNyUoQtwmsjaIZdJIEX4P8tTDFor9AIeRAlYD63tAc
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lazuras_dc
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7:37a, 1/7/21
AG

Quote:
I would be wary of getting the vaccine at a pharmacy, as I'm not sure how prepared they are in the case that someone suffers a major anaphylactic episode. That's why I would go to a clinic. That extra amount of reaction time, along with trained healthcare providers on scene, could be a lifesaver.
I think this concern is overblown... Pharmacies and pharmacists give vaccines on a frequent basis and are trained to deal with any reactions. compound this with reactions being very infrequent.
Point is... get your vaccine where you can !
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