Over half our ICU beds now COVID. The mortality rate once a COVID patient requires a ventilator basically 100%. Obesity obesity obesity. Why this virus loves to kill these people is a mystery. Depressing.
Reflections from this weekend.......
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Last: 5 yr ago by Sandman98
Sad. Hopefully we get better at curing it.
What's the obesity range you're seeing here? There are a lot of degrees of fat between the initial cutoff for obese BMI and bedridden. You're talking something like 40% of Americans here. Do you refer to closer to the most obese 10% of that 40% or an even mixture across the 40%?
Age range?
Sorry for all the questions but it seems relevant.
What's the obesity range you're seeing here? There are a lot of degrees of fat between the initial cutoff for obese BMI and bedridden. You're talking something like 40% of Americans here. Do you refer to closer to the most obese 10% of that 40% or an even mixture across the 40%?
Age range?
Sorry for all the questions but it seems relevant.
I found this from an English Study showing BMI ranges vs Hospitalizations rates
Why COVID-19 is more deadly in people with obesityeven if they're young | Science | AAAS (sciencemag.org)
and a smaller study showed a little less dramatic relationship for deaths but similar for ventilation
Overweight and obese younger people at greater risk for severe COVID-19 : Newsroom - UT Southwestern, Dallas, Texas
Why COVID-19 is more deadly in people with obesityeven if they're young | Science | AAAS (sciencemag.org)
and a smaller study showed a little less dramatic relationship for deaths but similar for ventilation
Overweight and obese younger people at greater risk for severe COVID-19 : Newsroom - UT Southwestern, Dallas, Texas
Back at my original full time hospital after a short contract. Census is double the August peak. Medical ICU is 100% covid and a stepdown unit has been converted to an ICU. We are holding 15+ in the ER. No beds.
I'm dreading 10-20 days from now when Christmas Day surge hits, followed by New Year's. We already can't take care of these people. Standards of care slipping big time.
I'm dreading 10-20 days from now when Christmas Day surge hits, followed by New Year's. We already can't take care of these people. Standards of care slipping big time.
Could it be a vitamin deficiency? Presuming the higher BMI you have the worse the diet is.
As was hammered into my head in school, "Correlation does not imply causation".
With that there does appear to be correlations between Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 severity.
i.e.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77093-z
Conclusion
Vitamin D deficiency markedly increases the chance of having severe disease after infection with SARS Cov-2. The intensity of inflammatory response is also higher in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. This all translates to increase morbidity and mortality in COVID-19 patients who are deficient in vitamin D. Keeping the current COVID-19 pandemic in view authors recommend administration of vitamin D supplements to population at risk for COVID-19.
The causal relationships are likely not simple. This paper points out how Vitamin D is involved in many of the anti-inflammatory responses that balance the necessary immune system inflammatory responses. I can't judge the merits of this approach.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352364620300067?via%3Dihub#bb0530
Fig. 3. Ang II leads to a series of pro-inflammatory stimuli in the immune system via the activation of AT1R. These include an increase in the expression of MCP-1 as well as the chemokine receptor CCR2, which lead to a massive infiltration of the endothelium with macro****es. The same applies to the activation, migration and maturation of dendritic cells (DC) and the antigen (Ag) presentation. The negative effect on T lymphocytes as well as on T regulatory cells further promotes a pro-inflammatory state. A number of other proinflammatory processes are triggered by AT1R and favor the development of inflammation, hypertension and diabetes. Vitamin D is considered to counteract this reaction by contributing to a normalization of immune function through a variety of processes. However, it should not be overlooked that most processes in the immune system initiated by vitamin D occur together with vitamin A [196].
With that there does appear to be correlations between Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 severity.
i.e.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77093-z
Conclusion
Vitamin D deficiency markedly increases the chance of having severe disease after infection with SARS Cov-2. The intensity of inflammatory response is also higher in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. This all translates to increase morbidity and mortality in COVID-19 patients who are deficient in vitamin D. Keeping the current COVID-19 pandemic in view authors recommend administration of vitamin D supplements to population at risk for COVID-19.
The causal relationships are likely not simple. This paper points out how Vitamin D is involved in many of the anti-inflammatory responses that balance the necessary immune system inflammatory responses. I can't judge the merits of this approach.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352364620300067?via%3Dihub#bb0530
Fig. 3. Ang II leads to a series of pro-inflammatory stimuli in the immune system via the activation of AT1R. These include an increase in the expression of MCP-1 as well as the chemokine receptor CCR2, which lead to a massive infiltration of the endothelium with macro****es. The same applies to the activation, migration and maturation of dendritic cells (DC) and the antigen (Ag) presentation. The negative effect on T lymphocytes as well as on T regulatory cells further promotes a pro-inflammatory state. A number of other proinflammatory processes are triggered by AT1R and favor the development of inflammation, hypertension and diabetes. Vitamin D is considered to counteract this reaction by contributing to a normalization of immune function through a variety of processes. However, it should not be overlooked that most processes in the immune system initiated by vitamin D occur together with vitamin A [196].
Marcus Aurelius said:
Over half our ICU beds now COVID. The mortality rate once a COVID patient requires a ventilator basically 100%. Obesity obesity obesity. Why this virus loves to kill these people is a mystery. Depressing.
I'm placing my bet on inflammation.
In medical school during an endocrinology lecture I remember the speaker stating that adipose tissue basically functions as an endocrine organ. Via multiple signals the adipocytes promoted an inflammatory state. This is how I have reasoned the increase in mortality in obese patients.
This is my theory when combined with the fact that Vitamin D is absorbed by fat cells, the available Vitamin D for the immune system is woefully low for obese people.plain_o_llama said:
As was hammered into my head in school, "Correlation does not imply causation".
With that there does appear to be correlations between Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 severity.
i.e.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77093-z
Conclusion
Vitamin D deficiency markedly increases the chance of having severe disease after infection with SARS Cov-2. The intensity of inflammatory response is also higher in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. This all translates to increase morbidity and mortality in COVID-19 patients who are deficient in vitamin D. Keeping the current COVID-19 pandemic in view authors recommend administration of vitamin D supplements to population at risk for COVID-19.
The causal relationships are likely not simple. This paper points out how Vitamin D is involved in many of the anti-inflammatory responses that balance the necessary immune system inflammatory responses. I can't judge the merits of this approach.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352364620300067?via%3Dihub#bb0530
Fig. 3. Ang II leads to a series of pro-inflammatory stimuli in the immune system via the activation of AT1R. These include an increase in the expression of MCP-1 as well as the chemokine receptor CCR2, which lead to a massive infiltration of the endothelium with macro****es. The same applies to the activation, migration and maturation of dendritic cells (DC) and the antigen (Ag) presentation. The negative effect on T lymphocytes as well as on T regulatory cells further promotes a pro-inflammatory state. A number of other proinflammatory processes are triggered by AT1R and favor the development of inflammation, hypertension and diabetes. Vitamin D is considered to counteract this reaction by contributing to a normalization of immune function through a variety of processes. However, it should not be overlooked that most processes in the immune system initiated by vitamin D occur together with vitamin A [196].
I feel blessed to be in Virginia. We have been around 50% ICU capacity the entire year. No issues at all here. Not sure what we are doing that is so special. Restaurants, gyms, salons, etc. are all open. Some schools are open as well. We are hitting our winter peak but still have ample hospital capacity.
Maybe the obesity rate in VA is lower than elsewhere?
Forum Troll said:
Maybe the obesity rate in VA is lower than elsewhere?
According to this we are #26 in the country in obesity.
https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/
We are also middle of the pack in age.
I'm really not sure why we haven't been hit hard with everything being open since June. Maybe because the bulk of our population lives on the coast in humid weather?
Sorry for delay. Been a ***** weekend. I'm talking BMIs > 40 (defining morbid obesity. BMI 30-40 is obese). Not bedridden massively morbidly obese (my ex partner loved to say that.) All ages. Ton of 50 somethings dying this week.GE said:
Sad. Hopefully we get better at curing it.
What's the obesity range you're seeing here? There are a lot of degrees of fat between the initial cutoff for obese BMI and bedridden. You're talking something like 40% of Americans here. Do you refer to closer to the most obese 10% of that 40% or an even mixture across the 40%?
Age range?
Sorry for all the questions but it seems relevant.
Yessir. OMG. I am so dreading the mid January spike from the holidays. Going to suck. We are phasing out elective procedures. I predict by Feb our MICU, NICU and SICU (whole 5th floor of hospital) will be COVID. That leaves about 20 ICU beds in CCU for non COVID.Cactus Jack said:
Back at my original full time hospital after a short contract. Census is double the August peak. Medical ICU is 100% covid and a stepdown unit has been converted to an ICU. We are holding 15+ in the ER. No beds.
I'm dreading 10-20 days from now when Christmas Day surge hits, followed by New Year's. We already can't take care of these people. Standards of care slipping big time.
Marcus Aurelius said:Sorry for delay. Been a ***** weekend. I'm talking BMIs > 40 (defining morbid obesity. BMI 30-40 is obese). Not bedridden massively morbidly obese (my ex partner loved to say that.) All ages. Ton of 50 somethings dying this week.GE said:
Sad. Hopefully we get better at curing it.
What's the obesity range you're seeing here? There are a lot of degrees of fat between the initial cutoff for obese BMI and bedridden. You're talking something like 40% of Americans here. Do you refer to closer to the most obese 10% of that 40% or an even mixture across the 40%?
Age range?
Sorry for all the questions but it seems relevant.
Hopefully we can put the fat acceptance movement to bed along with the idea that you can be morbidly obese and healthy.
I know it's wishful thinking but I am guessing the post Thanksgiving spike put a damper on some of the travel and gatherings that were to take place over Christmas. I know our plans were changed by a positive test in the family. Maybe the post Christmas numbers won't be as bad as you are thinking.
Please tell me there's a special place in Heaven for Aggie fans! It's like we are living some sort of penance on Earth.
Thanks. That gives some level of comfort. Sure it's true of a lot of people on here but I'm close to a bunch of people in their 50's and 60's who probably fall into that 30-35 BMI range.Marcus Aurelius said:Sorry for delay. Been a ***** weekend. I'm talking BMIs > 40 (defining morbid obesity. BMI 30-40 is obese). Not bedridden massively morbidly obese (my ex partner loved to say that.) All ages. Ton of 50 somethings dying this week.GE said:
Sad. Hopefully we get better at curing it.
What's the obesity range you're seeing here? There are a lot of degrees of fat between the initial cutoff for obese BMI and bedridden. You're talking something like 40% of Americans here. Do you refer to closer to the most obese 10% of that 40% or an even mixture across the 40%?
Age range?
Sorry for all the questions but it seems relevant.
it's probably because schools still aren't open in Fairfax County
Schools are also closed in California and they are in pretty bad shape. Believe there are several states that closed schools and are having problems.
maybe they should open them then
My neighbor with 4 young kids agrees strongly that they should be open and never should have been shut down. Unfortunately the teachers union disagrees with her.
Of course all of the private schools in Fairfax County are open for business so its really just the poors who have to suffer.
Of course all of the private schools in Fairfax County are open for business so its really just the poors who have to suffer.
Virginia turning into a giant suburb probably helps. Curious about ratio of uninsured vs people who regularly go to pcp.
Back the to the Vitamin D topic...FWIW, VitD is used in treating MS as well. And I'm talking massive doses of it compared to fed suggestions. 10,000 IUs daily of D3.
With the similarities to other autoimmune disorders, I would think those treatments would be a good place to start.
With the similarities to other autoimmune disorders, I would think those treatments would be a good place to start.
I read there is a death every 10 minutes in Southern California hospitals. Northern California has been far more compliant and though not in great shape, far better then SoCal. That 1 every 10 minutes is a very unsettling thought. My daughter flys back to Dallas tomorrow. She's been here since Thanksgiving. Seems somewhat likely she gets it throughout her travel day tomorrow.....Gumby said:
Schools are also closed in California and they are in pretty bad shape. Believe there are several states that closed schools and are having problems.
In a normal year, ~6 people die every 10 minutes in California.
I would also consider median age of death and how many are dying in long-term care facilities. I know in some states median age of death is 80+ with over 60% of deaths occurring in LTC.
The risk for this for people under 65 was similar to flu last time I checked and less dangerous than flu for those under 20.
I would also consider median age of death and how many are dying in long-term care facilities. I know in some states median age of death is 80+ with over 60% of deaths occurring in LTC.
The risk for this for people under 65 was similar to flu last time I checked and less dangerous than flu for those under 20.
One other thing, my wife and I have both had to travel on full flights in some cases and didn't get COVID. Meanwhile, I have a sister who barely left her house and got it from a friend she was taking care of who got it in the hospital of all places.
I wouldn't assume your daughter is going to get it from traveling. I'm not sure airplanes have proven to be a big driver of transmission. I think home transmission is 80% of the cases.
I wouldn't assume your daughter is going to get it from traveling. I'm not sure airplanes have proven to be a big driver of transmission. I think home transmission is 80% of the cases.
Being home for the holidays, I've been watching alot more of the morning shows (GMA, etc) and they don't talk about obesity being an issue at all. More "stay at home", masks, stuff than anything , and of course the case numbers. Same information that's been beaten into the ground for months.Gumby said:Marcus Aurelius said:Sorry for delay. Been a ***** weekend. I'm talking BMIs > 40 (defining morbid obesity. BMI 30-40 is obese). Not bedridden massively morbidly obese (my ex partner loved to say that.) All ages. Ton of 50 somethings dying this week.GE said:
Sad. Hopefully we get better at curing it.
What's the obesity range you're seeing here? There are a lot of degrees of fat between the initial cutoff for obese BMI and bedridden. You're talking something like 40% of Americans here. Do you refer to closer to the most obese 10% of that 40% or an even mixture across the 40%?
Age range?
Sorry for all the questions but it seems relevant.
Hopefully we can put the fat acceptance movement to bed along with the idea that you can be morbidly obese and healthy.
It's too bad, that's the demo for reaching the people that need to hear this. But they're all about fluff and feelings, so it's really unfortunate.
The idea there was a drastic change due to thanksgiving is false in the US.
Yep. It's not people getting it from walking the aisles at the grocery store, Home Depot, and not airplanes. Alot of misdirected information and attention.Gumby said:
One other thing, my wife and I have both had to travel on full flights in some cases and didn't get COVID. Meanwhile, I have a sister who barely left her house and got it from a friend she was taking care of who got it in the hospital of all places.
I wouldn't assume your daughter is going to get it from traveling. I'm not sure airplanes have proven to be a big driver of transmission. I think home transmission is 80% of the cases.
bay fan said:I read there is a death every 10 minutes in Southern California hospitals. Northern California has been far more compliant and though not in great shape, far better then SoCal. That 1 every 10 minutes is a very unsettling thought. My daughter flys back to Dallas tomorrow. She's been here since Thanksgiving. Seems somewhat likely she gets it throughout her travel day tomorrow.....Gumby said:
Schools are also closed in California and they are in pretty bad shape. Believe there are several states that closed schools and are having problems.
I've been on over 100 flights this year. Flying isn't a boogeyman. If it was, pilots and flight attendants would be getting sick at a higher rate than the general population instead of lower.
if homes are the major vector, it has to get into the homes somehow
I agree, I'm just saying I doubt people are getting it from minding their own business at CVS. They then leave and go hang out with friend, close contact in car, etc.... then come home and give it to family.
I do agree that given the state of the media they'd 100% be ringing five alarm bells if spread was prevalent in airplanes
That would explain why the wuhan flu is targeting Americans; it hates fat people.
cone said:
I do agree that given the state of the media they'd 100% be ringing five alarm bells if spread was prevalent in airplanes
For the media there is no way to get through flyover country without flying.
Until there is enough high speed rail to save us all, anyway.
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