I've seen the terms variant and strain used interchangeably in a lot of articles. Then I listen to TWIV podcast in which the host seems to particularly hate the term strain being used to describe the variants. But never really explains what a strain is, at least not in a way I was able to understand confidently.

So I am wondering just what the difference between strain and variant is.

Is it correct to say that the South African and Brazilian viruses are 2 different variants of SARS-CoV-2, whereas SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 are 2 different strains of a coronavirus? Or is that wrong as well?

Just curious.

KlinkerAg11 said:

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Great question, I know it's not harmful for my son to get COVID.

But, if it's not unsafe to get the vaccine what's the issue?

You also raise a question I really struggle with, natural immunity to an extent is important for kids. It's why I gave my son peanut butter at 4 months, or I'm happy when he gets sick and well (sniffles).

It's the main struggle I have.

---

I'll preface this by saying that I have no issues getting the COVID vaccine for myself and will gladly get it when available. And I will admit that I am quite possibly ignorant about what mRNA vaccines are, but I currently lean towards not giving the COVID vaccine to my 7-month old daughter. The lack of long-term studies, especially with young children and babies, makes me hesitant. I am fine taking that risk myself, but I don't think I want to take that risk with my daughter. Especially since, as you pointed out, COVID would have virtually no impact on her.

I think what's crazy about this is I was called anti vax a few weeks ago for struggling with this.

I'm truly not sure if I'd give the vaccine to my child, but it doesn't mean I'm against it.

BiochemAg97 said:

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agsalaska said:

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Furlock Bones said:

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agsalaska said:

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Furlock Bones said:

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agsalaska said:

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Furlock Bones said:

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FratboyLegend said:

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Aston94 said:

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tysker said:

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PJYoung said:

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Given that those under 18 wont be taking these first vaccines, that seems like way, way too many...

---

The vaccines are not recommended for those under 18?

---

Not generally. Where have you been? Pfizer is 18+ and Moderna is 16+.

---

I know for a fact Pfizer is currently trialing their vaccine in 12-17 year olds.

---

So this I do not understand. Why would we want to vaccinate children. Dont we want children developing natural immunity?

Or is that wrong.

---

Yes vaccinations are better. Take the chicken pox. When I was a kid, people thought it was better to make sure kids got sick. Now we know the pox is responsible for shingles. My wife got shingles a year and a half ago. It ****ing sucks.

---

I guess. Not sure I completely agree with that when we are talking about illnesses that in the long run cause so little harm.

But let's carry on.

---

Which diseases cause so little harm? Measles, mumps, rubella? That's been a pretty good one to give to kids. TDAP. Yep that's a pretty good thing. As already mentioned, chicken pox should be given. Smart parents will get their kids the HPV vaccine.

---

Covid 19 in children.

Let me rephrase this.

If I understand this correctly Covid 19 is one of many types of coronaviruses, the vast majority of which are not particularly dangerous. But this variant is clearly an exception to that, particularly in elderly and people with various ailments. But it is not dangerous to children.

Is it true, or do we know, that part of the problem is the older populations did not develop immunities to it as we aged? And if that is true, does it not make sense to allow the younger generations to build natural immunities. To me that makes more sense than an annual shot, especially considering the logistical impossibility of worlwide annual forever and ever immunizations.

Not sure we know enough to answer that,

---

The vaccine targets this specific coronavirus. There will be others that make the leap from animals to humans as has happened with SARS and MERS. Given the history with SARS, MERS, and COVID, we might face a new one every 5-10 years rather than annually like the flu. I suspect the difference between kids and adults is not about previously developed immunity, but rather general health and resilience of youth vs elderly.

I suspect we don't really have to get this shot annually but we don't have the data to show that yet (no one has had the shot for a year). Flu vaccine is a very different thing as each year there are new flus to target. Plus, the flu vaccine targets a region of the flu that differs between flu strains. There is work on a more universal flu vaccine and if that works out, we probably put an end to the annual flu vaccine as well, but that will likely be 10 or so years down the road.

Thing is these things only take off like this one when there isn't the natural immunity in the population, so it isn't a matter of should we wait for natural immunity vs vaccine. The more people that get the virus, the more chances the virus has to mutate to a new strain. vaccination reduces the number of people that will get it and thus the number of chances for mutation to something different.

---

But I've heard from many in the medical and scientific community, that it's very unlikely coronavirus will mutate enough to where the vaccine wouldn't work anyways. Even with new strains, nothing seems to bypass these vaccines because they are all working on the same general spiked protein, right?

Obviously anything is possible, and getting the vaccine is better than the actual virus for the vat majority of people. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely, right? I'd still say children at virtually no risk, it really won't make a lick of difference whether they get it or not for our community as a whole.

KlinkerAg11 said:

---

I think what's crazy about this is I was called anti vax a few weeks ago for struggling with this.

I'm truly not sure if I'd give the vaccine to my child, but it doesn't mean I'm against it.

---

I just don't see the need for kids. We know this isn't anything but a cold for nearly all of them and those at risk will have been vaccinated such as teachers and grandparents.

Agree 100 percent.

I think it comes down to weighing risks you perceive for your child/ situation.

Just because it's not deadly for kids.

PerpetualLurker said:

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I've seen the terms variant and strain used interchangeably in a lot of articles. Then I listen to TWIV podcast in which the host seems to particularly hate the term strain being used to describe the variants. But never really explains what a strain is, at least not in a way I was able to understand confidently.

So I am wondering just what the difference between strain and variant is.

Is it correct to say that the South African and Brazilian viruses are 2 different variants of SARS-CoV-2, whereas SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 are 2 different strains of a coronavirus? Or is that wrong as well?

Just curious.

---

I agree there is a lot of confusion between variant and strain. Normally, variant refers to any mutation. Not all mutations alter the virus or change immunity/virulence. Variants have been useful for tracking community spread.

Strains generally refer to variants that give rise to distinct changes, increased/decreased virulence for example.

SARS-CoV, MERS virus, SARS-CoV2 are different varieties, essentially different species of the virus family.

Thank you! That makes sense

beerad12man said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Aston94 said:

---

tysker said:

---

PJYoung said:

---

---

Given that those under 18 wont be taking these first vaccines, that seems like way, way too many...

---

The vaccines are not recommended for those under 18?

---

Not generally. Where have you been? Pfizer is 18+ and Moderna is 16+.

---

I know for a fact Pfizer is currently trialing their vaccine in 12-17 year olds.

---

So this I do not understand. Why would we want to vaccinate children. Dont we want children developing natural immunity?

Or is that wrong.

---

Yes vaccinations are better. Take the chicken pox. When I was a kid, people thought it was better to make sure kids got sick. Now we know the pox is responsible for shingles. My wife got shingles a year and a half ago. It ****ing sucks.

---

I guess. Not sure I completely agree with that when we are talking about illnesses that in the long run cause so little harm.

But let's carry on.

---

Which diseases cause so little harm? Measles, mumps, rubella? That's been a pretty good one to give to kids. TDAP. Yep that's a pretty good thing. As already mentioned, chicken pox should be given. Smart parents will get their kids the HPV vaccine.

---

Covid 19 in children.

Let me rephrase this.

If I understand this correctly Covid 19 is one of many types of coronaviruses, the vast majority of which are not particularly dangerous. But this variant is clearly an exception to that, particularly in elderly and people with various ailments. But it is not dangerous to children.

Is it true, or do we know, that part of the problem is the older populations did not develop immunities to it as we aged? And if that is true, does it not make sense to allow the younger generations to build natural immunities. To me that makes more sense than an annual shot, especially considering the logistical impossibility of worlwide annual forever and ever immunizations.

Not sure we know enough to answer that,

---

The vaccine targets this specific coronavirus. There will be others that make the leap from animals to humans as has happened with SARS and MERS. Given the history with SARS, MERS, and COVID, we might face a new one every 5-10 years rather than annually like the flu. I suspect the difference between kids and adults is not about previously developed immunity, but rather general health and resilience of youth vs elderly.

I suspect we don't really have to get this shot annually but we don't have the data to show that yet (no one has had the shot for a year). Flu vaccine is a very different thing as each year there are new flus to target. Plus, the flu vaccine targets a region of the flu that differs between flu strains. There is work on a more universal flu vaccine and if that works out, we probably put an end to the annual flu vaccine as well, but that will likely be 10 or so years down the road.

Thing is these things only take off like this one when there isn't the natural immunity in the population, so it isn't a matter of should we wait for natural immunity vs vaccine. The more people that get the virus, the more chances the virus has to mutate to a new strain. vaccination reduces the number of people that will get it and thus the number of chances for mutation to something different.

---

But I've heard from many in the medical and scientific community, that it's very unlikely coronavirus will mutate enough to where the vaccine wouldn't work anyways. Even with new strains, nothing seems to bypass these vaccines because they are all working on the same general spiked protein, right?

Obviously anything is possible, and getting the vaccine is better than the actual virus for the vat majority of people. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely, right? I'd still say children at virtually no risk, it really won't make a lick of difference whether they get it or not for our community as a whole.

---

Yes, unlikely and I think the media driven fear frenzy every time a new variant/strain is discovered is not at all helpful. However, given enough time (infected people), there could be mutations that make the vaccines less effective. Good news is we have multiple different vaccines so it could be limited to a subset rather than all.

At this point, we don't even have EUA for kids, and the studies I am aware of are only down to age 12 or so. Very hard to weigh risk/reward without any data.

BiochemAg97 said:

---

beerad12man said:

---

BiochemAg97 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Aston94 said:

---

tysker said:

---

PJYoung said:

---

---

Given that those under 18 wont be taking these first vaccines, that seems like way, way too many...

---

The vaccines are not recommended for those under 18?

---

Not generally. Where have you been? Pfizer is 18+ and Moderna is 16+.

---

I know for a fact Pfizer is currently trialing their vaccine in 12-17 year olds.

---

So this I do not understand. Why would we want to vaccinate children. Dont we want children developing natural immunity?

Or is that wrong.

---

Yes vaccinations are better. Take the chicken pox. When I was a kid, people thought it was better to make sure kids got sick. Now we know the pox is responsible for shingles. My wife got shingles a year and a half ago. It ****ing sucks.

---

I guess. Not sure I completely agree with that when we are talking about illnesses that in the long run cause so little harm.

But let's carry on.

---

Which diseases cause so little harm? Measles, mumps, rubella? That's been a pretty good one to give to kids. TDAP. Yep that's a pretty good thing. As already mentioned, chicken pox should be given. Smart parents will get their kids the HPV vaccine.

---

Covid 19 in children.

Let me rephrase this.

If I understand this correctly Covid 19 is one of many types of coronaviruses, the vast majority of which are not particularly dangerous. But this variant is clearly an exception to that, particularly in elderly and people with various ailments. But it is not dangerous to children.

Is it true, or do we know, that part of the problem is the older populations did not develop immunities to it as we aged? And if that is true, does it not make sense to allow the younger generations to build natural immunities. To me that makes more sense than an annual shot, especially considering the logistical impossibility of worlwide annual forever and ever immunizations.

Not sure we know enough to answer that,

---

The vaccine targets this specific coronavirus. There will be others that make the leap from animals to humans as has happened with SARS and MERS. Given the history with SARS, MERS, and COVID, we might face a new one every 5-10 years rather than annually like the flu. I suspect the difference between kids and adults is not about previously developed immunity, but rather general health and resilience of youth vs elderly.

I suspect we don't really have to get this shot annually but we don't have the data to show that yet (no one has had the shot for a year). Flu vaccine is a very different thing as each year there are new flus to target. Plus, the flu vaccine targets a region of the flu that differs between flu strains. There is work on a more universal flu vaccine and if that works out, we probably put an end to the annual flu vaccine as well, but that will likely be 10 or so years down the road.

Thing is these things only take off like this one when there isn't the natural immunity in the population, so it isn't a matter of should we wait for natural immunity vs vaccine. The more people that get the virus, the more chances the virus has to mutate to a new strain. vaccination reduces the number of people that will get it and thus the number of chances for mutation to something different.

---

But I've heard from many in the medical and scientific community, that it's very unlikely coronavirus will mutate enough to where the vaccine wouldn't work anyways. Even with new strains, nothing seems to bypass these vaccines because they are all working on the same general spiked protein, right?

Obviously anything is possible, and getting the vaccine is better than the actual virus for the vat majority of people. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely, right? I'd still say children at virtually no risk, it really won't make a lick of difference whether they get it or not for our community as a whole.

---

Yes, unlikely and I think the media driven fear frenzy every time a new variant/strain is discovered is not at all helpful. However, given enough time (infected people), there could be mutations that make the vaccines less effective. Good news is we have multiple different vaccines so it could be limited to a subset rather than all.

At this point, we don't even have EUA for kids, and the studies I am aware of are only down to age 12 or so. Very hard to weigh risk/reward without any data.

---

Aren't flu shots different by age? And are they tested all the way down to toddlers?

I think the real financial push will be to get the vaccine approved down to 10-12 yrs old so it can be added to the CDC vaccine schedule and given about the same time as the HPV and DTP booster.

Thanks. Just waiting my turn for the vaccine and to do my part. I hope we can get at least 50%, if not closer to 60/70% vaccinated. I think along with natural immunity, all is far more than enough.

As for children, I'm not really worried one way or another. They haven't proven to be big spreaders of the virus, and I think we would be fine all but considering them in herd immunity in the grand scheme of things. Given more data, it will likely come out that the vaccine is more than safe for them, and then more and more can get it for good measure. But I honestly don't think it matters.

tysker said:

---

BiochemAg97 said:

---

beerad12man said:

---

BiochemAg97 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

Furlock Bones said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Aston94 said:

---

tysker said:

---

PJYoung said:

---

---

Given that those under 18 wont be taking these first vaccines, that seems like way, way too many...

---

The vaccines are not recommended for those under 18?

---

Not generally. Where have you been? Pfizer is 18+ and Moderna is 16+.

---

I know for a fact Pfizer is currently trialing their vaccine in 12-17 year olds.

---

So this I do not understand. Why would we want to vaccinate children. Dont we want children developing natural immunity?

Or is that wrong.

---

Yes vaccinations are better. Take the chicken pox. When I was a kid, people thought it was better to make sure kids got sick. Now we know the pox is responsible for shingles. My wife got shingles a year and a half ago. It ****ing sucks.

---

I guess. Not sure I completely agree with that when we are talking about illnesses that in the long run cause so little harm.

But let's carry on.

---

Which diseases cause so little harm? Measles, mumps, rubella? That's been a pretty good one to give to kids. TDAP. Yep that's a pretty good thing. As already mentioned, chicken pox should be given. Smart parents will get their kids the HPV vaccine.

---

Covid 19 in children.

Let me rephrase this.

If I understand this correctly Covid 19 is one of many types of coronaviruses, the vast majority of which are not particularly dangerous. But this variant is clearly an exception to that, particularly in elderly and people with various ailments. But it is not dangerous to children.

Is it true, or do we know, that part of the problem is the older populations did not develop immunities to it as we aged? And if that is true, does it not make sense to allow the younger generations to build natural immunities. To me that makes more sense than an annual shot, especially considering the logistical impossibility of worlwide annual forever and ever immunizations.

Not sure we know enough to answer that,

---

The vaccine targets this specific coronavirus. There will be others that make the leap from animals to humans as has happened with SARS and MERS. Given the history with SARS, MERS, and COVID, we might face a new one every 5-10 years rather than annually like the flu. I suspect the difference between kids and adults is not about previously developed immunity, but rather general health and resilience of youth vs elderly.

I suspect we don't really have to get this shot annually but we don't have the data to show that yet (no one has had the shot for a year). Flu vaccine is a very different thing as each year there are new flus to target. Plus, the flu vaccine targets a region of the flu that differs between flu strains. There is work on a more universal flu vaccine and if that works out, we probably put an end to the annual flu vaccine as well, but that will likely be 10 or so years down the road.

Thing is these things only take off like this one when there isn't the natural immunity in the population, so it isn't a matter of should we wait for natural immunity vs vaccine. The more people that get the virus, the more chances the virus has to mutate to a new strain. vaccination reduces the number of people that will get it and thus the number of chances for mutation to something different.

---

But I've heard from many in the medical and scientific community, that it's very unlikely coronavirus will mutate enough to where the vaccine wouldn't work anyways. Even with new strains, nothing seems to bypass these vaccines because they are all working on the same general spiked protein, right?

Obviously anything is possible, and getting the vaccine is better than the actual virus for the vat majority of people. I'm just saying it's highly unlikely, right? I'd still say children at virtually no risk, it really won't make a lick of difference whether they get it or not for our community as a whole.

---

Yes, unlikely and I think the media driven fear frenzy every time a new variant/strain is discovered is not at all helpful. However, given enough time (infected people), there could be mutations that make the vaccines less effective. Good news is we have multiple different vaccines so it could be limited to a subset rather than all.

At this point, we don't even have EUA for kids, and the studies I am aware of are only down to age 12 or so. Very hard to weigh risk/reward without any data.

---

Aren't flu shots different by age? And are they tested all the way down to toddlers?

I think the real financial push will be to get the vaccine approved down to 10-12 yrs old so it can be added to the CDC vaccine schedule and given about the same time as the HPV and DTP booster.

---

Elderly get a double dose of flu vaccine. Not sure if kids get smaller than adult.

Generally they start with adults and work up and/or down to get the elderly and really young. They included elderly in the initial phase 3 for COVID. Might eventually work down to young kids, but I don't see the reason to rush into that.

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