I hope this isn't taken as a political post. Just passing along a doctor's opinion on masking. If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others. But the issue is that many in the population feel too nervous about things given the hysteria especially over masks. Said given that this was a mandated rule, companies and government have to deal with people with all levels of concern (I made that politically correct as his term was different) so this might be with us for a while. It's hard for a company to drop the mandate if enough people think everyone must be masked or they won't shop there, etc. So we may be stuck with this for a while. But that is not how the virus and the vaccine work. If you e had it or the vaccine, it's impossible to pass it to another. He used an example like a person getting the virus on their shirt and that technically that could pass to another through hugging or close contact. But masking would not prevent that anyway.

I do think that there's more to public health people wanting vaccinated people to be masked and feel it stems from reducing fears of those not vaccinated and b/c they are worried the unvaccinated will just lie. He did mention that unfortunately it may take a situation like what Israel does by having people show the vaccination card. Sucks but he said showing that would help companies have an out

The problem on this is the lies we are told as part of public health policy. Public health policy should be about science and truth. Frankly, this goes all the way back to Fauci stating masks won't help the general public, then saying he said that to protect PPE. But, they were then not recommending surgical or N95 for the public and a cloth mask recommendation would not have caused PPE issues.

Tell the public the truth and let the people do what they will with that. It's obvious to almost anyone that a vaccinated or recovered person has no need for a mask. They are telling them to wear one to control the rest of us.

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I hope this isn't taken as a political post. Just passing along a doctor's opinion on masking. If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others. But the issue is that many in the population feel too nervous about things given the hysteria especially over masks.

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Sorry. It's not my obligation to give into other's irrational and paranoid delusions so that they feel safe, especially when it does absolutely nothing. I've been doing enough of that for the last 52 weeks of 2 weeks to "Flatten the Curve".

I wasnt sick in the first place but I wore a mask some places. I am now vaccinated.. And by some strange logic, I somehow need to keep wearing a mask to "protect others"? Not only is there a miniscule chance in the first place that you will get it from me if im "asymptomatic", but now I'm supposed to be immune from the virus.

Still.."just wear a mask?" Hell NO. Enough is enough.

This isnt an attack against you, OP. You just asked a question. I'm just frustrated that the entire messaging around this pandemic from the "experts" has been completely STUPID.

Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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EVERYWHERE???...OMG please share

Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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What have you read to the contrary?

I wouldn't go as far as to say "can't", as in zero percent, you have my guarantee. Wording it that way is dangerous.

But everything absolutely indicates it is far, far less likely to contract it, let alone transmit it, if you are vaccinated, and/or have already had it. That's the human body working naturally.

I oppose mask mandates by governments on principle. But, I'm okay with private businesses requiring them and I will comply (even though I'm vaccinated as well) out of politeness and due to the rationale in the OP.

But, when we reach a point where everyone who wants a vaccine has received one, the game is over and I will burn my masks and tell anyone who complains to f-off.

Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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Where have you read this?

Almost every article I've seen, and even Fauci himself, seems to state that it's very unlikely to be able to pass the virus once you're vaccinated. Fauci just says we all should stay masked just in case. At least until the fall he's stated.

So if I'm vaccinated for polio and have had chicken pox, I can still pass it along??? Same difference.

Gumby said:

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beerad12man said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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What have you read to the contrary?

I wouldn't go as far as to say "can't", as in zero percent, you have my guarantee. Wording it that way is dangerous.

But everything absolutely indicates it is far, far less likely to contract it, let alone transmit it, if you are vaccinated, and/or have already had it. That's the human body working naturally.

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I have heard that there is still some uncertainty about whether people can infect others after getting the vaccine. Have you seen anything definitive? Or any studies?

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No studies that I've seen with definitive proof. But it is time to stop waiting for scientific certainty. I've had covid. My elder family members have been vaccinated. We are done waiting and are ready to live openly and without masks.

Gumby said:

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beerad12man said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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What have you read to the contrary?

I wouldn't go as far as to say "can't", as in zero percent, you have my guarantee. Wording it that way is dangerous.

But everything absolutely indicates it is far, far less likely to contract it, let alone transmit it, if you are vaccinated, and/or have already had it. That's the human body working naturally.

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I have heard that there is still some uncertainty about whether people can infect others after getting the vaccine. Have you seen anything definitive? Or any studies?

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Yes, the studies estimate about 89.7% less likely, even if you do get it. But on the other hand, they say 90-95% chance you don't get it at all. So if you don't get it, how are you spreading it? If you do get it, and fight it off quicker and less severe, clearly you are contagious for less time, and likely less viral load throughout the experience.

This is more than enough for me. This is about not overwhelming the healthcare system, right? So society doesn't collapse? Not about each and every case. There will always be some outliers. If we live our life that way, we'll never get out of this. It's mask and distancing commercials forever, and I'm not okay with that. I'm not really okay with it even for just a few more months, but I digress.

Vaccines turn this thing into less than the flu. Both in terms of deaths, and spread rate.

Masks have always been a security blanket to "allow" businesses to open and pretend that some safety precautions had been taken to justify it.

As for the poster above who heard "everywhere" that vaccinated people can spread the disease, that's the result of the intentionally misleading messaging coming from our public health officials. The line was "we don't know if vaccinated people can't spread the virus, so keep wearing your masks". Of course common sense is that vaccinated people won't spread it, and the CDC is slowly but surely admitting that fact.

Masks were literally the only reason we got to have schools open this year and that stores got to stay open. The only reason. Without the coverage of "if you have a mask you do not have to quarantine" allowed schools to stay open after cases increased, and allowed businesses to continue to operate with employees in tight quarters.

Masks allowed that to happen. I hate wearing one, absolutely hate it, but the coverage it gave to businesses and schools prevented us from being in perpetual lock down.

And that is the fact that so many don't seem to grasp. They want the "freedom" to not wear one and yet they don't appreciate that mask wearing provided them many freedoms this last year.

Europe has had schools without masks, with some countries specifically saying they cannot force masks on kids.

But, that has nothing to do with those with antibodies being required to wear them.

Yeah yeah yeah. Masks "allowed" those things to happen. Just like putting up plexiglass everywhere, spraying random objects constantly with disinfectant and other nonsense feel-good "precautions".

We could have opened businesses and schools with actual precautions like "stay home if you're sick" and "wash your hands" and nothing would have changed.

Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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I bet you read that on your Twitter feed or from the crazy Facebook friends, am I right?

Aston94 said:

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Masks were literally the only reason we got to have schools open this year and that stores got to stay open. The only reason. Without the coverage of "if you have a mask you do not have to quarantine" allowed schools to stay open after cases increased, and allowed businesses to continue to operate with employees in tight quarters.

Masks allowed that to happen. I hate wearing one, absolutely hate it, but the coverage it gave to businesses and schools prevented us from being in perpetual lock down.

And that is the fact that so many don't seem to grasp. They want the "freedom" to not wear one and yet they don't appreciate that mask wearing provided them many freedoms this last year.

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What? Masks did no such thing. I have plenty of schools near me that never required masks and businesses as well.

Aston94 said:

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Masks were literally the only reason we got to have schools open this year and that stores got to stay open. The only reason. Without the coverage of "if you have a mask you do not have to quarantine" allowed schools to stay open after cases increased, and allowed businesses to continue to operate with employees in tight quarters.

Masks allowed that to happen. I hate wearing one, absolutely hate it, but the coverage it gave to businesses and schools prevented us from being in perpetual lock down.

And that is the fact that so many don't seem to grasp. They want the "freedom" to not wear one and yet they don't appreciate that mask wearing provided them many freedoms this last year.

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All of that could have happened without masks with the same result. As a society we decided we needed something to make us feel like we were in control and masks filled that need.

beerad12man said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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But everything absolutely indicates it is far, far less likely to contract it, let alone transmit it, if you are vaccinated, and/or have already had it. That's the human body working naturally.

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This...exactly...and based on what I have read and heard!

While there simply has not been enough time for definitive proof, real experts are predicting that the vaccine WILL prevent transmission. (Just like with other vaccines.)

I don't understand why some people seem to be actively campaigning for the "pandemic" to continue. Get the vaccine (or not...your choice) and get on with life.

There's no evidence to mask mandates/usage leading to a decrease in covid cases, acute cases, nor deaths. The correlation is roughly 0.0.

Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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Israel is doing extensive studying on this and have found that the Pfizer vaccine reduces asymptomatic cases by something like 94%.... you can't spread Covid if you don't have it in the first place.

So to sum it up the Pfizer vaccine (and probably Moderna too) offer somewhere in the neighborhood of 94% reduction in the chance of you spreading the virus to others even if you never wear a mask.

There haven't been legit studies on how much these cloth masks reduce the spread of Covid, but based on the sizes of the holes in the material and the size of the virus it is likely a hell of a lot closer to 0% reduction than it is to the 94% of the vaccine. If you want to do your part to end the pandemic get a vaccine but otherwise your cloth mask is completely useless and the surgical masks have massive holes compared to the size of the virus and air leaks out the sides and the top too. If the masks we are wearing worked then they would use them in the virology labs.

Aston94 said:

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Masks were literally the only reason we got to have schools open this year and that stores got to stay open. The only reason. Without the coverage of "if you have a mask you do not have to quarantine" allowed schools to stay open after cases increased, and allowed businesses to continue to operate with employees in tight quarters.

Masks allowed that to happen. I hate wearing one, absolutely hate it, but the coverage it gave to businesses and schools prevented us from being in perpetual lock down.

And that is the fact that so many don't seem to grasp. They want the "freedom" to not wear one and yet they don't appreciate that mask wearing provided them many freedoms this last year.

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Haha. No. Just..No...Wow.

ORAggieFan said:

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Europe has had schools without masks, with some countries specifically saying they cannot force masks on kids.

But, that has nothing to do with those with antibodies being required to wear them.

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You mean the same Europe that is just ending another round of lock downs? That Europe? What an example.

GAC06 said:

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Yeah yeah yeah. Masks "allowed" those things to happen. Just like putting up plexiglass everywhere, spraying random objects constantly with disinfectant and other nonsense feel-good "precautions".

We could have opened businesses and schools with actual precautions like "stay home if you're sick" and "wash your hands" and nothing would have changed.

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We would have had larger, longer lockdowns. Businesses would not have opened if they had not been given some form of coverage that opening would not get employees sick. That is just facts.

Aston94 said:

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GAC06 said:

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Yeah yeah yeah. Masks "allowed" those things to happen. Just like putting up plexiglass everywhere, spraying random objects constantly with disinfectant and other nonsense feel-good "precautions".

We could have opened businesses and schools with actual precautions like "stay home if you're sick" and "wash your hands" and nothing would have changed.

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We would have had larger, longer lockdowns. Businesses would not have opened if they had not been given some form of coverage that opening would not get employees sick. That is just facts.

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Study after study has found that lockdowns weren't effective and that mask mandates weren't effective. Masks always were a placebo for people to think they were in control when they were powerless. Masks stopped lockdowns like me eating eggs for breakfast stopped lockdowns. There is the same amount of scientific evidence to support either one.

Florida, Texas, and California have fared about the same from covid. Why? Because of masks? Lockdowns?

Aston94 said:

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Masks were literally the only reason we got to have schools open this year and that stores got to stay open. The only reason. Without the coverage of "if you have a mask you do not have to quarantine" allowed schools to stay open after cases increased, and allowed businesses to continue to operate with employees in tight quarters.

Masks allowed that to happen. I hate wearing one, absolutely hate it, but the coverage it gave to businesses and schools prevented us from being in perpetual lock down.

And that is the fact that so many don't seem to grasp. They want the "freedom" to not wear one and yet they don't appreciate that mask wearing provided them many freedoms this last year.

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Masks didn't provide me a single freedom last year.

My rights as an American provided freedoms. Lawyers and politicians and tried their damndest to take them away, though.

bay fan said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.

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I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.

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It seems most sources simply say it is still unknown, which of course it is. The doctor in the OP shared an opinion, nothing more. My personal take is let's get everyone who wants a vaccine one and THEN masks can come off but right now, most essential workers aren't yet able to get the vaccine. It's just a few more months, which is wonderful.

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Well. Originally it was just two weeks. Now 53 weeks later it's just a few more months? I sincerely hope the narrative is correct this time around, and that's the truth. And in a few more months it isn't, "just another year to be safe" while we make sure these vaccines work!

Most essential workers, a year into this, if they've been in the line of fire, have already had this thing, or been exposed enough to where they are one of the 20-40% who seem to be able to avoid getting this thing at a severe level. Most estimate 30+% of people have had it. What graphic do you think the majority of those come from? Its the 59 and under crowd who , many of which have exposed themselves dozens of times the last year.

Nah. Masks are off for me every chance they can be. Sorry. But when I go to the gym, and 90 people are there, 30 of which wearing a sweaty mask that even the best kind are useless when wet, 30 of which only wear them on entry, and 30 remove them while doing sets when they are breathing the heaviest(ie, emitting the most particles in the air) only to put them back over their mouth for a few seconds in between sets, we all know damn well they are 100% for optics and for the gym to avoid closure , and not effective.

Or going to chuys with 75 people in the bar area without masks, but wearing it while I walk to my section for 22 seconds only to remove it the next hour.

Fact is. In reality, we haven't been wearing masks for 9-10 months in Texas. At least not correctly and in the settings that matter most. The minimal benefit they might provide if done correctly is all but negated by this, and especially when these people who preach masks, also have house parties all weekend long. "I will wear the masks because it's the right thing to do and I believe in science". Oh, that same person on my Facebook feed had a 12 person house gathering, went to crowded restaurants all year, when the science really says those are what really spread it. Not masks or no masks. Fact is, masks are the easy, visible way to oust people, when in reality nearly everyone has done many things the last year far worse than not wearing a mask if we are truly talking about following the science.

Simply keeping it out of nursing homes was the way to go. And yes, I'm aware you tragically lost someone you knew in their 20s. That's incredibly sad and I'm sorry for the loss. But it also has shown to be an extreme outlier. The 59 and under crowd I still firmly believe should have lived life as normal the last year, and the numbers would be identical.

And this post is coming from someone who, if visiting an elderly indoors for an extended period of time, would get a fitted N95 mask, put a second surgical mask over that, and even inquire about a face shield if there's on available to wear. Because those things could make a real difference

I just hate that we have to change our whole culture to use them in settings that 99.9% of the time are unnecessary and merely for optics.