Politicians and lawyers spooked the herd over the mask cliff.
Freedom and liberty took a serious hit over this.
Freedom and liberty took a serious hit over this.
Per my Doctor about masks
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Last: 4 yr ago by Picadillo
Ya the "just do x for y much longer and we will be fine" is the most BS lie to come out of this. At this point it's absurd and can't believe people still have the nerve to say it.
GAC06 said:Aston94 said:GAC06 said:
Yeah yeah yeah. Masks "allowed" those things to happen. Just like putting up plexiglass everywhere, spraying random objects constantly with disinfectant and other nonsense feel-good "precautions".
We could have opened businesses and schools with actual precautions like "stay home if you're sick" and "wash your hands" and nothing would have changed.
We would have had larger, longer lockdowns. Businesses would not have opened if they had not been given some form of coverage that opening would not get employees sick. That is just facts.
Study after study has found that lockdowns weren't effective and that mask mandates weren't effective. Masks always were a placebo for people to think they were in control when they were powerless. Masks stopped lockdowns like me eating eggs for breakfast stopped lockdowns. There is the same amount of scientific evidence to support either one.
Florida, Texas, and California have fared about the same from covid. Why? Because of masks? Lockdowns?
You are preaching to the choir as far as effectiveness and the difference between California and Texas. I don't think I ever argued for the effectiveness or lack thereof of masks. The point is that they allowed businesses to have the ability to open and have a government pass so their employees were not "exposed" and could continue to stay open. Same with schools.
Whether we handled the virus the right way or not is a different topic. But as a business owner and school board member I can tell you it would have been difficult to operate under the system we were given if masks had not been a way around all the quarantine and isolating requirements.
I'd like to see a bar put an "underwear on head required" sign up in their establishment.
What if a bank said underwear on head required to come in and close your account. Buck up, suck it up - put the underwear on head!
What if a bank said underwear on head required to come in and close your account. Buck up, suck it up - put the underwear on head!
FWIW, this is the part most people have a problem with what you are saying.Aston94 said:GAC06 said:Aston94 said:GAC06 said:
Yeah yeah yeah. Masks "allowed" those things to happen. Just like putting up plexiglass everywhere, spraying random objects constantly with disinfectant and other nonsense feel-good "precautions".
We could have opened businesses and schools with actual precautions like "stay home if you're sick" and "wash your hands" and nothing would have changed.
We would have had larger, longer lockdowns. Businesses would not have opened if they had not been given some form of coverage that opening would not get employees sick. That is just facts.
Study after study has found that lockdowns weren't effective and that mask mandates weren't effective. Masks always were a placebo for people to think they were in control when they were powerless. Masks stopped lockdowns like me eating eggs for breakfast stopped lockdowns. There is the same amount of scientific evidence to support either one.
Florida, Texas, and California have fared about the same from covid. Why? Because of masks? Lockdowns?
You are preaching to the choir as far as effectiveness and the difference between California and Texas. I don't think I ever argued for the effectiveness or lack thereof of masks. The point is that they allowed businesses to have the ability to open and have a government pass so their employees were not "exposed" and could continue to stay open. Same with schools.
Whether we handled the virus the right way or not is a different topic. But as a business owner and school board member I can tell you it would have been difficult to operate under the system we were given if masks had not been a way around all the quarantine and isolating requirements.
The federal/state/local government is not supposed to, pandemic or not, be the mafia, who can tell you to run your business or not run your business depending on what is "safe". Period.
Hope this helps.
If every store had a sign that said "Please Wear A Mask" and there were no issues inside said store with whatever personal decisions people made, I think that's what most people want.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!
Windy City Ag said:I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.Quote:
If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.
There is nuance here. The initial studies that led to FDA approval did NOT study spread with the vaccination (just results for the vaccinee). So to be scientifically correct guys like Faucci have to say there is "no evidence" that the vaccines prevent spread.
That is not the same as them saying the vaccines do not prevent spread.
This is a novel virus so anyone making blanket statements that it will behave a certain way are just shooting from the hip.
Now there have been a few studies completed (including Israeli one cited in this thread) that indicate evidence the vaccines do prevent spread. Still, in the context of most vaccines and studies on vaccines we are still WAY WAY early into this one so most science type folks (OPs doc notwithstanding) are probably still gonna hedge.
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
The chances are so small of getting killed by covid from a Person that has recovered or had the vaccine are so low it's not worth debating. Sick and tired of the irrational fear debates. There is absolutely no reason for a recovered person or a vaccinated person to wear a mask. It's has to stop.
The chances are so small of getting killed by covid from a Person that has recovered or had the vaccine are so low it's not worth debating. Sick and tired of the irrational fear debates. There is absolutely no reason for a recovered person or a vaccinated person to wear a mask. It's has to stop.
I deal with government all the time, and I see the bad, so I get it. And I want government involved in my operations as little as possible. But when there is something like a pandemic, if the government is going to come out and say "this can be spread easily and lead to deaths" then I also need them to say "if you do this then you can operate and stay open".BadMoonRisin said:FWIW, this is the part most people have a problem with what you are saying.Aston94 said:GAC06 said:Aston94 said:GAC06 said:
Yeah yeah yeah. Masks "allowed" those things to happen. Just like putting up plexiglass everywhere, spraying random objects constantly with disinfectant and other nonsense feel-good "precautions".
We could have opened businesses and schools with actual precautions like "stay home if you're sick" and "wash your hands" and nothing would have changed.
We would have had larger, longer lockdowns. Businesses would not have opened if they had not been given some form of coverage that opening would not get employees sick. That is just facts.
Study after study has found that lockdowns weren't effective and that mask mandates weren't effective. Masks always were a placebo for people to think they were in control when they were powerless. Masks stopped lockdowns like me eating eggs for breakfast stopped lockdowns. There is the same amount of scientific evidence to support either one.
Florida, Texas, and California have fared about the same from covid. Why? Because of masks? Lockdowns?
You are preaching to the choir as far as effectiveness and the difference between California and Texas. I don't think I ever argued for the effectiveness or lack thereof of masks. The point is that they allowed businesses to have the ability to open and have a government pass so their employees were not "exposed" and could continue to stay open. Same with schools.
Whether we handled the virus the right way or not is a different topic. But as a business owner and school board member I can tell you it would have been difficult to operate under the system we were given if masks had not been a way around all the quarantine and isolating requirements.
The federal/state/local government is not supposed to, pandemic or not, be the mafia, who can tell you to run your business or not run your business depending on what is "safe". Period.
Hope this helps.
If every store had a sign that said "Please Wear A Mask" and there were no issues inside said store with whatever personal decisions people made, I think that's what most people want.
Now should they have given other advice than what they did? I think there were big mistakes made and I don't think masks are as effective as they let on, nor is the virus as contagious as they first let on. But as a business owner, after they said what they did about the disease, I needed an out, and the masks gave us an out.
We can disagree about "freedom" and whether the out was the right one or not, but the fact is, I was able to keep operating my business by telling employees to distance and wear a mask. If one came down with Covid and all were wearing a mask, then they could stay and work. So it gave me as an employer an out.
Again, I don't agree with all the decisions made, but government realized for the country to operate it needed an out and masks provided that.
DadHammer said:
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
The chances are so small of getting killed by covid from a Person that has recovered or had the vaccine are so low it's not worth debating. Sick and tired of the irrational fear debates. There is absolutely no reason for a recovered person or a vaccinated person to wear a mask. It's has to stop.
It will stop when the general population has reliable access to the vaccine. That is the responsible time to stop wearing masks. However, because wearing masks is not about protecting the wearer, but it's about protecting those around you, it's unreasonable to believe a population that largely has no access to the vaccine can trust that you are a "non spreader" of the virus. That is impossible to manage on a society level.
Masks will go away for everyone in all settings probably sometime in May or June when there is no excuse to not be vaccinated. Until then society still has to deal with a large number of people that haven't had the virus or been vaccinated and they shouldn't be forced to be exposed to those people without some form of protection. And again, if this forum has taught me anything, its that there is no hope for some sort of honor system on mask wearing.
In private settings I would encourage you to not wear a mask. But that's a social contract between you and your friends not some random stranger that has to deal with the consequences of interacting with you and never see you again.
If you've already had corona, the only reason to wear a mask is feelz, yet you are literally Hitler if you do not wear one. This is the Twilight Zone.
That part in bold is mostly bull crap.Gordo14 said:DadHammer said:
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
The chances are so small of getting killed by covid from a Person that has recovered or had the vaccine are so low it's not worth debating. Sick and tired of the irrational fear debates. There is absolutely no reason for a recovered person or a vaccinated person to wear a mask. It's has to stop.
It will stop when the general population has reliable access to the vaccine. That is the responsible time to stop wearing masks. However, because wearing masks is not about protecting the wearer, but it's about protecting those around you, it's unreasonable to believe a population that largely has no access to the vaccine can trust that you are a "non spreader" of the virus. That is impossible to manage on a society level.
Masks will go away for everyone in all settings probably sometime in May or June when there is no excuse to not be vaccinated. Until then society still has to deal with a large number of people that haven't had the virus or been vaccinated and they shouldn't be forced to be exposed to those people without some form of protection. And again, if this forum has taught me anything, its that there is no hope for some sort of honor system on mask wearing.
In private settings I would encourage you to not wear a mask. But that's a social contract between you and your friends not some random stranger that has to deal with the consequences of interacting with you and never see you again.
Windy City Ag said:I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.Quote:
If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.
Science
If you're no longer shedding virus, you can't pass it
If we show a vaccination card, that could allow companies/retail an out. To me, its all about the retailers and businesses worrying about the PR issues. Stating you need to show proof of vaccination could at least give them some reassurance that they appear sensitive while being open to reward those who have vaccinated and are now safe. The biggest issue is the fact that CDC and Fauci have publicly stated vaccinated people might be able to pass the virus on. They both have stated its doubtful, but the overabundance of caution thing. I do think that they step that back by May or June. Hopefully, with them stating vaccinated are safe, that will help businesses feel confident enough to open things up a bit.Gordo14 said:DadHammer said:
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
The chances are so small of getting killed by covid from a Person that has recovered or had the vaccine are so low it's not worth debating. Sick and tired of the irrational fear debates. There is absolutely no reason for a recovered person or a vaccinated person to wear a mask. It's has to stop.
It will stop when the general population has reliable access to the vaccine. That is the responsible time to stop wearing masks. However, because wearing masks is not about protecting the wearer, but it's about protecting those around you, it's unreasonable to believe a population that largely has no access to the vaccine can trust that you are a "non spreader" of the virus. That is impossible to manage on a society level.
Masks will go away for everyone in all settings probably sometime in May or June when there is no excuse to not be vaccinated. Until then society still has to deal with a large number of people that haven't had the virus or been vaccinated and they shouldn't be forced to be exposed to those people without some form of protection. And again, if this forum has taught me anything, its that there is no hope for some sort of honor system on mask wearing.
In private settings I would encourage you to not wear a mask. But that's a social contract between you and your friends not some random stranger that has to deal with the consequences of interacting with you and never see you again.
The fact is, there will be people that will probably never feel safe or will not be confident for a few years regardless of the science. But at some point, we will have to leaves those choosing to be afraid behind if science doesn't back them up in their fear.
FTFY.Dad said:That part in bold is complete bull crap.Gordo14 said:DadHammer said:
There is no such thing as 100% safe.
The chances are so small of getting killed by covid from a Person that has recovered or had the vaccine are so low it's not worth debating. Sick and tired of the irrational fear debates. There is absolutely no reason for a recovered person or a vaccinated person to wear a mask. It's has to stop.
It will stop when the general population has reliable access to the vaccine. That is the responsible time to stop wearing masks. However, because wearing masks is not about protecting the wearer, but it's about protecting those around you, it's unreasonable to believe a population that largely has no access to the vaccine can trust that you are a "non spreader" of the virus. That is impossible to manage on a society level.
Masks will go away for everyone in all settings probably sometime in May or June when there is no excuse to not be vaccinated. Until then society still has to deal with a large number of people that haven't had the virus or been vaccinated and they shouldn't be forced to be exposed to those people without some form of protection. And again, if this forum has taught me anything, its that there is no hope for some sort of honor system on mask wearing.
In private settings I would encourage you to not wear a mask. But that's a social contract between you and your friends not some random stranger that has to deal with the consequences of interacting with you and never see you again.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!
It's semantics over statistical probability.
If the vaccine you take is 95 percent effective, there's only a 5 percent chance of ever spreading it, and maybe a five percent chance or less you are infected at any given point, so it's really really low. And as more people get vaccinated it becomes .05 times .05 times .05 times if the person you are talking to has been vaccinated too. And then you have the whole six feet 15 minutes stuff. And even then, vaccinated people are almost zero risk for severe illness if they got it.
So yeah the risk is low, especially as vaccination rates go up. .
If the vaccine you take is 95 percent effective, there's only a 5 percent chance of ever spreading it, and maybe a five percent chance or less you are infected at any given point, so it's really really low. And as more people get vaccinated it becomes .05 times .05 times .05 times if the person you are talking to has been vaccinated too. And then you have the whole six feet 15 minutes stuff. And even then, vaccinated people are almost zero risk for severe illness if they got it.
So yeah the risk is low, especially as vaccination rates go up. .
Can't was not a great word for the doctor to use. Reduced greatly, yes. Some seem to have the wrong impression the shot means they will no longer get it. The main thing is if you do get it is one, your symptoms in most cases be less severe, which is important for those in the at-risk groups that would tend to have a more severe reaction; and two (which is more important in controlling it), is if you do get it it really greatly reduces your level of transmission due to less of a viral load. https://www.businessinsider.com/vaccines-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-early-research-2021-2Capitol Ag said:Where have you read this?Windy City Ag said:I have read to the contrary almost everywhere. Wonder what his rationale is for that statement.Quote:
If you've had Covid or have been vaccinated, per him, you cannot pass the virus on the others.
Almost every article I've seen, and even Fauci himself, seems to state that it's very unlikely to be able to pass the virus once you're vaccinated. Fauci just says we all should stay masked just in case. At least until the fall he's stated.
I have been wading through the viral soup for over 20 years. The public masking is a sham and mostly driven by fear of law suits and not valid scientific studies. Proper masking with N95 and eye protection is clearly helpful but the cloth mask that people use are really a sham in my professional opinion. At best it limits droplet spread slightly, at worst it gives people false confidence that they can do whatever without risk and possibly increases exposure as much as people fidget with them.
I am glad that for the first time in my career people are actually thinking about viral hygiene with hand washing and staying home when sick. I've been trying to convince families to do that for 20 years instead of them blaming the cough/congestion on allergies or sleeping with the fan on!
I still mask @ work as it is mandated by my employer but I think it is a bit silly when I've been walking into viral clouds for so long and we do not have vaccine protection for the vast majority of them. Hell I walked right into rooms with meningococcus and TB in the past as well and those are far more likely to kill me than COVID.
I am glad that for the first time in my career people are actually thinking about viral hygiene with hand washing and staying home when sick. I've been trying to convince families to do that for 20 years instead of them blaming the cough/congestion on allergies or sleeping with the fan on!
I still mask @ work as it is mandated by my employer but I think it is a bit silly when I've been walking into viral clouds for so long and we do not have vaccine protection for the vast majority of them. Hell I walked right into rooms with meningococcus and TB in the past as well and those are far more likely to kill me than COVID.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Haven't seen nor heard of a single scientific peer reviewed study that prove masks work. Open states are doing better w Covid than the lockdown states, with perhaps the exception of the wave of covid infections Biden is flooding our borders with.
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