When they say vaccines aren't 100% effective....

12,437 Views | 110 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by ttha_aggie_09
Irwin M. Fletcher
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01agtx said:

Another Doug said:

If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right


In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

And what is their story? They or someone close to them had an AE after getting vaccinated. Yes it's unfortunate but it happens, so their solution is all vaccines are bad or whatever and we shouldn't give them, they don't have a clue about risk reward ratio. The harm by not having people vaccinated is a thousand fold worse than any AE that few people will have. No people who can't reason should be made fun of period.
01agtx
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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

01agtx said:

Another Doug said:

If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right


In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.

And what is their story? They or someone close to them had an AE after getting vaccinated. Yes it's unfortunate but it happens, so their solution is all vaccines are bad or whatever and we shouldn't give them, they don't have a clue about risk reward ratio. The harm by not having people vaccinated is a thousand fold worse than any AE that few people will have. No people who can't reason should be made fun of period.
Yikes, that's a little over the top and aggressive. Nobody is complaining about sore arms. They are talking about life altering AEs. If you want to know their story, seek them out. You seem like the one who can't be reasoned with.
Irwin M. Fletcher
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I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.
bay fan
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Another Doug said:

Duncan Idaho said:

Rubble said:

bay fan said:

84AGEC said:

It's not a vaccine. It does not contain a modified/killed virus. It always said it lessens the severity of the Covid.
Really? If not a vaccine, what exactly is it?

Maybe just a radom shot in the arm that provides slot of protection from a virus?

Weird statement by this guy.

It is a pretty common bit of misinformation that is being echoed by a certain demographic.




I guess "****ing morons" is a demographic now
You got that right.
GAC06
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Irwin M. Fletcher said:

I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.


Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.
jamey
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Duncan Idaho said:

I am more intrigued by the ones spreading this misinformation. This guy knows he is spreading BS and he has zero qualms about doing it.

I have no I'll feelings towards the guys pushing HCQ, Ivermectin, etc because there is enough uncertainty about the virus, the disease, legitimate treatments. Hell I wish they had been 100% right all along

But these people, I just can't understand how they look in the mirror or their kids haven't written them out of their lives.


Turns out covid was fertilizer for the anti science faction.

I'm not sure why people choose willful ignorance but it's gaining popularity since covid and it certainly has an element of politics involved which I think is the driving force
Rubble
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It's all politics at this point...
bay fan
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GAC06 said:

Irwin M. Fletcher said:

I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.


Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.
Right, how dare he model behavior he believes in the interest of public health.
GAC06
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Masking has been shown to be ineffective, there's zero evidence that double masking is better, and there's zero evidence suggesting vaccinated people post a risk to others. Eventually he will decide it's ok to tell us all what we already knew. So brave.
jamey
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Rubble said:

It's all politics at this point...



I always makes me wonder how the middle east went from leaders of the world in math/science to owning some of the most extremist groups.
Another Doug
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01agtx said:

Another Doug said:

If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right


In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.


****'em if they want to be conspiracy theorist they can go hunt Sasquatch or be a flat earthier and not affect the rest of us. This idiocy is a cult that's success can only be measured in death.
bay fan
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GAC06 said:

Masking has been shown to be ineffective, there's zero evidence that double masking is better, and there's zero evidence suggesting vaccinated people post a risk to others. Eventually he will decide it's ok to tell us all what we already knew. So brave.
So we disagree about masking. No point in arguing at this juncture.
I don't think masking is likely needed after vaccine but it's not going to kill me to mask a bit longer if it provides peace of mind to people who are not yet vaccinated. I suspect that's another thing we disagree on. Oh well.
GAC06
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Fauci should be consistent and follow the science. He has flip flopped repeatedly purely because he thought it was a noble lie and people weren't ready for the truth. That's not the way to instill public trust. Follow the science. Hell, if you want people to get vaccinated, stop implying that the vaccines won't protect them even though EVERY BIT of available evidence shows that they will.
bay fan
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Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.

GAC06
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Take as much caution as you want. Just stick to the facts. Nothing you just stated in any way refutes the fact that the vaccines we are using are effective against all known variants and there is zero evidence that vaccinated people are a threat to spread the virus. He should stick to those facts and encourage more people to get vaccinated.
88planoAg
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bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.


Caution is fine on a personal level. Caution and basing public policy on scientific certainty, however, has got to stop. It at some point has to be ''good enough' or 'safe enough' to be done restricting people due to a public health threat that largely won't exist after all who choose to have been vaccinated.
beerad12man
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bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.


Others can be as cautious as they want.

The problem becomes when another individual doesn't see eye to eye, and the person wanting to be more cautious infringes on someone else moving forward who sees things differently. People are just going to have to start being okay with people moving on at different rates. No one is saying there is anything wrong with taking it more cautiously, but don't infringe on someone else who doesn't want to. Someone who is more than ready, has been for a year now, and are beyond sick and tired of people telling us just 2 weeks, just a couple months to slow the spread, just a few more months, just through the winter, just until the vaccine comes, just until a certain portion is vaccinated, and now just until we have more data on the vaccines. My guess is, soon we will start to hear some suggest we wait until we make sure the vaccines last, and that the variants don't start slipping through. For someone like Fauci, this may never completely end, as there will always be a potential scare on the horizon.

Instead of being the way Fauci has been, in my opinion, he should give the data we do have as best he can, and begin to let the people make the best choices for themselves more and more as we move forward. He should say that in the vast majority of cases, a vaccinated individual seems unlikely to contract covid, but not impossible, and that it does seem to have a strong correlation to preventing spread as well. While not 100%, if you wish to continue to social distance and wear masks, that could be wise for at risk folks who want to be more cautious. However, overall, spread from a vaccine is far, far less likely than before the vaccine, and far more likely to prevent it than a mask or social distancing has shown to have done in the last year. The masks are, and this is within statistical chance of other potential outliers, possibly about 0.5% effective daily based on our limited study, but vaccinations seem to be closer to 80% or more effected than non-vaccinated individuals. So a vaccinated individual even not wearing a mask is far less likely to spread the virus than a non-vaccinated individual wearing a mask.

I mean, if the goal is to not overwhelm hospitals, you have to go off the percentages, and not every last possible way to get covid, or shaping public policy to prevent every last case. If so, this will never end. Of course, this isn't possible, because fauci seems to only be able to speak off of 100% guarantees to move forward it seems. The vast majority of people I know, don't need 100% guarantees to live their life.

Also, my guess(and hope) is that your daughters case is extremely mild. and that her roommate(also extremely mild) who got it in December either never completely shed the virus, has a false positive, or has an extremely minor case, and was likely tested at the time her body was fighting it off(which is what immunity does), and had just enough to be positive. Most people who test positive twice actually don't have two separate, full blown contagious cases. She could be in the rare company that does, I don't really know. But again, it shouldn't' shape policy.

If they do, then their immune system might have some issues. You do seem to always present some rare cases, early on with the 20 something year old friend who I remember tragically lost her life, now a re-infection, and post vaccination infection. Kind of the trifecta on abnormalities. I am sorry to hear all that.

hoosierAG
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bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.




Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.
BBQ4Me
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It's a NOVEL coronavirus. Of course guidance from health officials will change as they learn more about it.
BiochemAg97
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JBenn06 said:

What did he say in his video that you believe is false?

This statement is false.
Quote:

"The so-called COVID-19 vaccine is not a vaccine at all."


And he proves it himself.
Quote:

"The Center for Disease Control, the CDC, gives the definition of the term vaccine on its website. A vaccine is a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease."
That definition would include the mRNA vaccine. Data from the clinical trials clearly show stimulation of the immune system leading to the production of antibodies specific for COVID. In fact, the data show the vaccine stimulated the immune system at least as well as getting the virus and being hospitalized.

Also, this is false.

Quote:

It's a dangerous, experimental gene therapy

The FDA has this definition of gene therapy.

Quote:

Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person's genes to treat or cure disease.
The mRNA vaccine does not modify a person's genes (DNA). It provides mRNA which the cell uses to make a protein. There is no mechanism in a human cell to use mRNA to make or modify DNA.

Dad
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bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.


The J&J shot just came out. No one that got it recently is fully protected from it.

We should not take away freedoms for some super rare event like getting Covid again. Also, a recurrent case means nothing unless she is so sick that she ends up in a hospital or dead.
GAC06
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BBQ4Me said:

It's a NOVEL coronavirus. Of course guidance from health officials will change as they learn more about it.


What changed to recommend masks after not recommending masks? What changed for herd immunity threshold? What new variants defeat the vaccines? What evidence shows double masks work better than one? What evidence is there for vaccinated or previously infected people transmitting the virus?

Actual studies. Science. Let's see it.
J. Walter Weatherman
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bay fan said:

GAC06 said:

Irwin M. Fletcher said:

I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.


Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.
Right, how dare he model behavior he believes in the interest of public health.


He should be showing everyone that once you are vaccinated you no longer need to wear a mask or worry about social distancing, etc. The only way we get past this is with a large number of people getting the shots and his actions potentially discourage people to do that.
Rubble
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

bay fan said:

GAC06 said:

Irwin M. Fletcher said:

I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.


Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.
Right, how dare he model behavior he believes in the interest of public health.


He should be showing everyone that once you are vaccinated you no longer need to wear a mask or worry about social distancing, etc. The only way we get past this is with a large number of people getting the shots and his actions potentially discourage people to do that.

Wait, you mean like the cdc already did?
bay fan
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hoosierAG said:

bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.




Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.
Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.
Diyala Nick
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01agtx said:

Another Doug said:

If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right


In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.


I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.
01agtx
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Diyala Nick said:

01agtx said:

Another Doug said:

If being mean to antivaxxers is wrong, I don't want to be right


In my experience, most antivaxxers are actually ex-vaxxers. How about we listen to their stories instead of being a jerk.


I also don't spend much time pondering the ideas of people that think electricity, indoor plumbing, and the wheel are a bad thing. Maybe I'm a jerk.


In the last 20 years, the US government has paid out $4.5 billion dollars in damages for vaccine injury so if you want to believe indoor plumbing is equal, go on.
Teslag
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bay fan said:

hoosierAG said:

bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.




Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.
Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.


Then there's no reason to bring up the vaccine. She may have got a shot, but it didn't have nearly enough time to convey any significant immunity. For someone continue masking after getting the vaccine and waiting the appropriate amount of time is sheer lunacy. It is pointless theater at that point.
3rd Generation Ag
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Thanks for understanding why I elect to mask with the best mask I can get even though fully moderna vaccinated prior to the ice storm. There are cases like mentioned in the first post, that still wind up in the hospital...and I try to avoid that always. A little extra caution causes no harm. I will know when it feels right to ME not to mask up. I have zero issues with school requiring me to mask and my apartment complex requiring masking in the halls, elevators, and common amenity areas.
GAC06
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bay fan said:

hoosierAG said:

bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.




Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.
Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.


It's absolutely rare. Very rare. Like 2 in 10,000 rare according to studies.
GAC06
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Rubble said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

bay fan said:

GAC06 said:

Irwin M. Fletcher said:

I'm fully aware of these. I know a kid that they suspect went blind from a vaccine. It's truly awful but it also extremely rare. The antivaxers play up these terrible outcomes as though they are very common and it's foolish to get vaccinated when the truth is that these awful Adverse Events are so rare and remote that the benefit of getting the vaccine far outweighs the highly unlikely terrible outcome. Their fear mongering and dis information is what bothers me. Most of them I find to be emotional thinkers and not rational ones.


Plenty of fear mongering and disinformation from our public health officials too unfortunately. Just look at fully vaccinated double masked Fauci.
Right, how dare he model behavior he believes in the interest of public health.


He should be showing everyone that once you are vaccinated you no longer need to wear a mask or worry about social distancing, etc. The only way we get past this is with a large number of people getting the shots and his actions potentially discourage people to do that.

Wait, you mean like the cdc already did?


Did they? Last I saw they said vaccinated people can gather in small groups with other vaccinated people without masks.
culdeus
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I have enough pool tank cleaner and dog worm medicine stocked up to wait this out.
hoosierAG
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bay fan said:

hoosierAG said:

bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.




Didn't your daughter get exposed 2 days after the shot? Don't blame the vaccine on that.

And if the roommate is truly reinfected after 3-4 months she is of the rarest of the rare.

You definitely do you and be precautious as you see fit. But we can't blanket policy everyone anymore based on situations like this.
Yes my daughter was exposed quickly after getting the vaccine and that's on her. However for a healthy 24 year old she has been sick as hell with a fever of 103.5 for several days.

Yes, her room mate was both sick and tested positive in December and again this week. It's not as rare as people want to believe which is why caution is warranted.
First off, I hope you daughter is and will be ok. I have had it and am not one that think this is a joke or anything.

But your original post was basically blaming and saying the vaccine is not fail proof (and of course it's not, nothing is) when it clearly was an exposure problem. You seem to be preaching caution, when it was your daughter hanging out with others (and good for her if that's her choosing) that now got her sick.

And now you have an anecdotal story of reinfection and say it's not as uncommon as we we want to believe. But is in fact very uncommon by every study, the CDC, etc.

I have said this before, but we have let perfect become the enemy of good in almost all aspects of life. For Covid, it was lower the curve and slow the spread to now eradication it seems. It's not ever going to happen. Someone got the vaccine and still got it and went to the hospital as a precaution makes headlines even though that was always and is going to happen. So be cautious and mask up forever for the exceptions? Goodness.
Bird Poo
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bay fan said:

Why do you care if others have a more careful approach?

Btw, my daughter has Covid right now after receiving the J&J shot so nothing is full proof. Her room mate who had Covid in December is also positive as a reinfection right now. Caution is not inappropriate just because you personally don't believe it to be needed.




Unless she dies, why should anyone give a F? Cautious because somebody gets sick? LOL. Please stop and listen to yourself. This virus is going to be with us for years. Are you willing to permanently alter society because someone catches a bug and gets sick but doesn't die? Seriously, this thing is less severe as time goes on, especially if she's vaccinated.

BiochemAg97
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BBQ4Me said:

It's a NOVEL coronavirus. Of course guidance from health officials will change as they learn more about it.


I am so tired of this. It seems that because "novel" was tacked on to the name, we ignore all science that occurred prior to 2020.

It really isn't that novel, it is basically SARS 2.0. Something like 94% identical at the amino acid level. Yeah, not exactly SARS, but pretty dang close. In fact, we knew very early on (before last March) that antibodies to SARS cross reacted to COVID. But WHO was so afraid of scaring some Asian populations that we had to come up with a different name. And then we act like nothing we learned about SARS could be relevant for this one.

 
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