Which is still less than or inline with heart disease and cancer deaths per year. If you carve out covid deaths where cancer and heart disease were the reported comorbidiy to the covid death, what would the covid death totals look like? This covariance is the big question that has yet to be answered. If we're simply pulling forward deaths by 6 months to 2 years, it may very well be wolves, on a QALY basis.bay fan said:
550,000+ deaths really doesn't seem like wolves.
Cases rising - Click bait or legitimate concern?
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Last: 4 yr ago by 74Ag1
Great news. This is kind of what I've been saying. Yes, cases might be up a bit, but deaths and hospitalizations likely won't correlate as highly as in the past. Great news. It's about time to get back to normal, because clearly the 25-49 year olds are done with it anyways and living life as is, and the 65+ crowd is more and more covered.PJYoung said:Quote:
People under 60 are accounting for the majority of new Covid-19 cases across the country likely a testament to the success of the vaccines that have been administered to primarily older, more vulnerable Americans.
The number of cases is rising again following a steep decline and then plateauing for several weeks. During a White House Covid-19 briefing Monday, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said the rise in cases an average increase of 10 percent from the previous week gave her a sense of "impending doom."Quote:
Nationwide, "the number of 25-to-49-year-olds visiting U.S. emergency departments for diagnosed Covid-19 is now higher than the number of visits among patients 65 and older," the CDC said in a statement to NBC News.Quote:
The trend toward younger patients with milder illness is likely the reason many intensive care units are no longer inundated with severe cases.
At the pandemic's peak last year, Dr. Todd Rice, director of Vanderbilt University Medical Center's medical intensive care unit in Nashville, Tennessee, said he had 60 Covid-19 patients at once. Now, he has five.
The shift is likely because "we've changed the demographics of the people who are being affected" by the illness, Rice said.
How it should have been handled all along.beerad12man said:Great news. This is kind of what I've been saying. Yes, cases might be up a bit, but deaths and hospitalizations likely won't correlate as highly as in the past. Great news. It's about time to get back to normal, because clearly the 25-49 year olds are done with it anyways and living life as is, and the 65+ crowd is more and more covered.PJYoung said:Quote:
People under 60 are accounting for the majority of new Covid-19 cases across the country likely a testament to the success of the vaccines that have been administered to primarily older, more vulnerable Americans.
The number of cases is rising again following a steep decline and then plateauing for several weeks. During a White House Covid-19 briefing Monday, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said the rise in cases an average increase of 10 percent from the previous week gave her a sense of "impending doom."Quote:
Nationwide, "the number of 25-to-49-year-olds visiting U.S. emergency departments for diagnosed Covid-19 is now higher than the number of visits among patients 65 and older," the CDC said in a statement to NBC News.Quote:
The trend toward younger patients with milder illness is likely the reason many intensive care units are no longer inundated with severe cases.
At the pandemic's peak last year, Dr. Todd Rice, director of Vanderbilt University Medical Center's medical intensive care unit in Nashville, Tennessee, said he had 60 Covid-19 patients at once. Now, he has five.
The shift is likely because "we've changed the demographics of the people who are being affected" by the illness, Rice said.
Give me 10 blue stars and I will tell you the answer OP.
GAC06 said:
Prepare for an anecdote to counter your pesky factual post
Hell, even the CDC released data that 80% of Covid hospitalizations thus far have been of the obese variety. On the whole, obesity is an extremely preventable comorbidity.
[Be respectful when giving your opinions on this forum. -Staff]
Do you not love or respect anyone who is over weight? I'd happily wear a mask to save someone others loved regardless of their weight.
bay fan said:
Do you not love or respect anyone who is over weight? I'd happily wear a mask to save someone others loved regardless of their weight.
I usually let people live with the consequences of poor decision making. Which is what being overweight is. I have a real issue with having to be inconvenienced because someone didn't want to take care of themselves. If we were a healthy population covid would basically be a non issue. Like it is in Asia.
A child who lacks the development necessary to avoid an impulse to run into the street can hardly be compared to a lifetime of poor decision making and irresponsibility that leads to obesity.
Obese and overweight people make bad choices. Over and over again.
Obese and overweight people make bad choices. Over and over again.
Up to this date, yes. But what many of us are saying is that a lot of the verbiage and choice of words used by national medical leadership is really hard to believe for many of us not on the front lines and who mostly see very few serious cases from covid personally. I know of people that have died. Some under 50. But personally I don't know of anyone who has died and only a very few that have even been in hospitals. One was a pregnant co-worker and one was a family friend in their 80's. The rest have had mostly mild and perhaps annoying type cases at most. All of that to say that to many, using a phrase like "impending doom" way overstates the situation as they have no real personal experience with the severity of this virus as they are not in the worst hospital situations and don't see all the people that do die in very horrible ways. Because the overwhelming amount of those who contract Covid don't turn into these.bay fan said:
550,000+ deaths really doesn't seem like wolves.
Her and other officials use of phrases like "impending doom", in my opinion, lead to either people being too scared to a point that they can't just live their lives or to where people just turn off to the warnings as they seem like grandstanding and cry wolf for something that hasn't really directly effected them in terms of illness but has hurt their finances, businesses and ability to live a normal life. I think the CDC Dir would be helping more people by just being honest with us. There is no "doom" here unless you are one of the few that are most at risk. "Impending doom" should be reserved for an extinction level event. Not this. Not even 500,000 more people dying which obviously hopefully will not happen. If officials want more people to follow guidelines and not be a reason for the spread, learn how to speak in ways that do not cause more polarization.
Salute The Marines said:
A child who lacks the development necessary to avoid an impulse to run into the street can hardly be compared to a lifetime of poor decision making and irresponsibility that leads to obesity.
Obese and overweight people make bad choices. Over and over again.
i am someone who has lost 50 lbs, 30 of them during the pandemic, after struggling with a lifetime of childhood obesity.
To say "shouldn't have eaten too much, sorry fatso" I find rather disingenuous. It was not that I only now started making better decisions to lose weight. After a lifetime of being told "Just eat less and move more" (which DOES NOT work) it took many months of my own research, experimentation and effort to finally lose weight for good.
To say obesity comes from "a lifetime of poor decisions and irresponsibility" is inaccurate. We live in an extremely obesogenic food environment, and becoming obese is just a natural consequence from living in that environment.
I have more passion about the importance of losing weight and getting healthy than most people, but the absolute disgust I have seen from so many on TexAgs towards people who are obese I find truly disturbing.
And yet we closed the gyms, in many states actually discouraged getting outside and exercising and made people stay inside and order Grub Hub or whatever and get fatter and more out of shape. CBS reported this weekend that since all of this began, the average American has gained 18lbs. And that's not muscle. That's fat. 18 lbs of fat takes a healthy individual to become overweight and an overweight person to become obese. And those are some of the most at risk. And while some effort was taken to try to get people healthy during the imposed shut downs, it was way too little for what was needed. To me, less focus should have been given to imploring people to stay in and mask up and socially distance and a full on effort to push a healthy lifestyle choices on the population. That alone would have limited numbers and then combine it with the SDing, the masking and other efforts, but those lesser extent than the importance of getting in your exercise and using healthy eating habits (read: you forgot your mask but that doesn't get you an "out of having to workout free" pass). What if we had seen a loss of 18lbs on average across the board and any actual weight gain was muscle mass? I personally think we could have seen a significantly lessoned overall death rate. All we did was encourage our population to fatten up thereby increasing their risk of dying from Covid even more for when they did eventually go out.Salute The Marines said:
A child who lacks the development necessary to avoid an impulse to run into the street can hardly be compared to a lifetime of poor decision making and irresponsibility that leads to obesity.
Obese and overweight people make bad choices. Over and over again.
Our entire society is geared around introducing inconveniences because certain people can't take care of themselves. You yourself personally don't have any leeway regarding letting "people live with their choices." outside of your direct family and even in that case your hands are probably tied in a lot of ways.Quote:
I usually let people live with the consequences of poor decision making. Which is what being overweight is. I have a real issue with having to be inconvenienced because someone didn't want to take care of themselves. If we were a healthy population covid would basically be a non issue. Like it is in Asia.
You have to buy a car with seat belts and crash and rollover focused improvements and then you have to maintain that car to a degree that is safe and you can only drive a certain speed limit. You are not allowed to operate electronic devices within your vehicle.
Gambling online and in most states is illegal
Smoking is not allowed in most areas and taxed out that wazzoo as a disincentive
Weed is illegal
I could go on and on and on and on literally hours on nanny state type of laws only to make the point that anyone that starts with a framework "I shouldn't be inconvenienced due to other people's sub-optimal health choices" is not focusing on the real world.
Goodbull_19 said:Salute The Marines said:
A child who lacks the development necessary to avoid an impulse to run into the street can hardly be compared to a lifetime of poor decision making and irresponsibility that leads to obesity.
Obese and overweight people make bad choices. Over and over again.
i am someone who has lost 50 lbs, 30 of them during the pandemic, after struggling with a lifetime of childhood obesity.
To say "shouldn't have eaten too much, sorry fatso" I find rather disingenuous. It was not that I only now started making better decisions to lose weight. After a lifetime of being told "Just eat less and move more" (which DOES NOT work) it took many months of my own research, experimentation and effort to finally lose weight for good.
To say obesity comes from "a lifetime of poor decisions and irresponsibility" is inaccurate. We live in an extremely obesogenic food environment, and becoming obese is just a natural consequence from living in that environment.
I have more passion about the importance of losing weight and getting healthy than most people, but the absolute disgust I have seen from so many on TexAgs towards people who are obese I find truly disturbing.
Sorry, but this is just a lot of excuse making. As long as calories in exceed calories out, you will get fat.
Salute The Marines said:Goodbull_19 said:Salute The Marines said:
A child who lacks the development necessary to avoid an impulse to run into the street can hardly be compared to a lifetime of poor decision making and irresponsibility that leads to obesity.
Obese and overweight people make bad choices. Over and over again.
i am someone who has lost 50 lbs, 30 of them during the pandemic, after struggling with a lifetime of childhood obesity.
To say "shouldn't have eaten too much, sorry fatso" I find rather disingenuous. It was not that I only now started making better decisions to lose weight. After a lifetime of being told "Just eat less and move more" (which DOES NOT work) it took many months of my own research, experimentation and effort to finally lose weight for good.
To say obesity comes from "a lifetime of poor decisions and irresponsibility" is inaccurate. We live in an extremely obesogenic food environment, and becoming obese is just a natural consequence from living in that environment.
I have more passion about the importance of losing weight and getting healthy than most people, but the absolute disgust I have seen from so many on TexAgs towards people who are obese I find truly disturbing.
Sorry, but this is just a lot of excuse making. As long as calories in exceed calories out, you will get fat.
In a sense, yes. But that oversimplification ignores hormonal factors, such as the hormone insulin, known as the fat storage hormone.
For further reading, I would suggest googling "Jason Fung" and reading about his hormonal theory of obesity.
Check out this video, great investment of 20 minutes. Peter Attia is a world class doctor who shares his own story of struggling with his weight while detesting others for their obesity related illnesses.
At the end of the day, I do agree with you. Obesity is a huge problem in our society, and I think we would've done much better pushing diet and lifestyle changes over social distancing and closures.
I think our disagreement is over how the vitriol shown to obese people.
Not to stray way off-topic but do you think the vitriol (and government mandated restrictions) shown to smokers is appropriate? As ex-smoker myself, I've always found it funny how smokers rarely blame others for their addiction. Same goes for the functional drunks and daily-use opioid users I've known. But something about foods is different in the collective conscious, I guess because, at it's base, food is a necessity whereas cigs, alcohol and pain meds are more easily seen as a choice.Quote:
I think our disagreement is over how the vitriol shown to obese people.
From what I've read the risk with covid starts going up from as soon as the weight goes from normal BMI, to overweight, not just obese.
Pull up a BMI calculator and I'd guess the majority of us, and the population as a whole are in the overweight to obese category.
If you check your BMI, "normal" is what most of us would probably consider skinny
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/english_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html
Pull up a BMI calculator and I'd guess the majority of us, and the population as a whole are in the overweight to obese category.
If you check your BMI, "normal" is what most of us would probably consider skinny
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/english_bmi_calculator/bmi_calculator.html
Yes, food is a necessity. But also, in the past when cigarettes were allowed to advertise more and in ways that showed how cool and exciting smoking was, eventually smokers sued big tobacco.tysker said:Not to stray way off-topic but do you think the vitriol (and government mandated restrictions) shown to smokers is appropriate? As ex-smoker myself, I've always found it funny how smokers rarely blame others for their addiction. Same goes for the functional drunks and daily-use opioid users I've known. But something about foods is different in the collective conscious, I guess because, at it's base, food is a necessity whereas cigs, alcohol and pain meds are more easily seen as a choice.Quote:
I think our disagreement is over how the vitriol shown to obese people.
While food is a necessity, its pushed on us through TV, internet and other routes with advertising and most of that isn't very healthy. On top of it, certain things that aren't overall that bad to eat are if not eaten in moderation. A hamburger in and of itself isn't "unhealthy". Sure, red meat can have more saturated fats and can elevate cholesterol but overall, if eaten in moderation, is full of BCAAs, iron, good fats that we evolved to be able to digest and use. Not all saturated fats are "bad". And we need fat in our diets to function. Plus a hamburger, if a reasonable one with say 4 oz of meat isn't that high in fat. The bread won't hurt you (unless you have a gluten problem) and that is you main carb source for that meal. Cheese adds fat, but overall one can control that just by manipulating your macro nutrients to fit a pre made caloric restrictive diet. The ole "if it fits your macros" fitness folks have been using for years to stay shredded and in shape. The issues is, people get the fries, soft drink and supersize it to boot. And they will tend to get more than they need, like getting 2 burgers with all of that or add in a milk shake. That's a fantastic cheat meal once a week. People eat this instead multiple times a week. It's too accessible, convenient and advertised to us so often that it becomes very hard to resist. Add to that the fact that when we are hungry we tend to make rash and bad diet decisions. Which is why prepping meals for the week is so important. You are less likely to hit the drive through if you brought your lunch.
Plus unhealthy habits are so widespread that there's almost a strength in numbers effect where it's easy to justify your bad habits b/c most of your coworkers or friends are just as likely to make the same decision. I will be at work quietly eating my premade meal in it's container and people immediately start to ask me about it or say, "man, I need to do that". Some tease me but later will ask what it is I do. It's not easy. It take discipline and an ability to stay with it. It takes time to find healthy and tasteful ways to eat. And when you combine work and home life stress and the lack of sleep most of us have, comfort eating is a very hard thing to resist. And then we want you to train at a gym or your house too? It's truly not an easy thing. No one should be chastised for obesity. I feel encouragement and education go a lot further.
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