Salute The Marines said:

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The public should know that the vaccines aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, despite all of us being told from the start this wasn't what they were designed to do?

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Apparently, much of the public is not aware of this. An old friend of mine posted a scathing rant on Facebook the other day, blaming the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. Never mind that the Delta variant has been around since December 2020, and also since vaccinated people can be infected, it's possible that a vaccinated person could end up being the source of new variants.

clarification on post...I'm aware that vax doesn't prevent infection but I would still like to know which have a better success rate against various strain/variant

Rex Racer said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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The public should know that the vaccines aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, despite all of us being told from the start this wasn't what they were designed to do?

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Apparently, much of the public is not aware of this. An old friend of mine posted a scathing rant on Facebook the other day, blaming the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. Never mind that the Delta variant has been around since December 2020, and also since vaccinated people can be infected, it's possible that a vaccinated person could end up being the source of new variants.

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Considering that vaccinated people are far less likely to become infected your friend's conclusion seems pretty reasonable. They aren't necessarily "responsible" for it, but they're certainly a primary factor in the spread.

You'll note the post you quoted says they aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, which is true of most any vaccine.

The problem is even testing vaccinated. It will continue to spread and the vaccine and immunity will continue to fight it.

billydean05 said:

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The science of vaccines being 94% effective appears to be unravelling.

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How so? The virus appears to be 100% effective among the infected Texas lawmakers.

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection

My understanding was the vaccine was supposed to have an efficacy of 94%. meaning if 5 out of 50 people got the virus even if all 50 were in a placebo group on vaccinated and had gotten COVID that would only be a 90% efficacy.

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection

Not according to this article from Yale medicine excerpt below

How well it works: 95% efficacy in preventing COVID-19 in those without prior infection. The researchers report that the vaccine was equally effective across a variety of different types of people and variables, including age, gender, race, ethnicity, and body mass index (BMI)or presence of other medical conditions. In clinical trials, the vaccine was 100% effective at preventing severe disease. In late March, a small CDC study that enrolled 3,950 health care personnel, first responders, and other essential and frontline workers showed the vaccine to be 90% effective upon full immunization (at least 14 days after the second dose) in real-world conditions.

ORAggieFan said:

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It's actually in between. Efficacy is based on those sick with symptoms. The problem is we are testing non sick so the number will be lower. Treating non sick individuals as sick is one of our biggest problems that will lead to us never exiting the pandemic.

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Yep. If somebody drops a bucket full of dirt on your driveway while you're standing there with a shovel, of course you'll test positive for dirt.

Where does it say "serious hospitalization or death" was the definition of illness?

fig96 said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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The public should know that the vaccines aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, despite all of us being told from the start this wasn't what they were designed to do?

---

Apparently, much of the public is not aware of this. An old friend of mine posted a scathing rant on Facebook the other day, blaming the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. Never mind that the Delta variant has been around since December 2020, and also since vaccinated people can be infected, it's possible that a vaccinated person could end up being the source of new variants.

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Considering that vaccinated people are far less likely to become infected your friend's conclusion seems pretty reasonable. They aren't necessarily "responsible" for it, but they're certainly a primary factor in the spread.

You'll note the post you quoted says they aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, which is true of most any vaccine.

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My friend's conclusion is NOT reasonable at all because, as I said, the delta variant has been around since December 2020.

Salute The Marines said:

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billydean05 said:

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https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection

My understanding was the vaccine was supposed to have an efficacy of 94%. meaning if 5 out of 50 people got the virus even if all 50 were in a placebo group on vaccinated and had gotten COVID that would only be a 90% efficacy.

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Then your understanding is wrong. Efficacy in the case of the vaccines was never determined by infection. It was determined by serious hospitalization and/or death.

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Maybe different studies used different case definitions. Here is what Pfizer's phase 3 study used for efficacy.

Quote:

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The first primary end point was the efficacy of BNT162b2 against confirmed Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose in participants who had been without serologic or virologic evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection up to 7 days after the second dose; the second primary end point was efficacy in participants with and participants without evidence of prior infection. Confirmed Covid-19 was defined according to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) criteria as the presence of at least one of the following symptoms: fever, new or increased cough, new or increased shortness of breath, chills, new or increased muscle pain, new loss of taste or smell, sore throat, diarrhea, or vomiting, combined with a respiratory specimen obtained during the symptomatic period or within 4 days before or after it that was positive for SARS-CoV-2 by nucleic acid amplificationbased testing, either at the central laboratory or at a local testing facility (using a protocol-defined acceptable test).

Major secondary end points included the efficacy of BNT162b2 against severe Covid-19. Severe Covid-19 is defined by the FDA as confirmed Covid-19 with one of the following additional features: clinical signs at rest that are indicative of severe systemic illness; respiratory failure; evidence of shock; significant acute renal, hepatic, or neurologic dysfunction; admission to an intensive care unit; or death. Details are provided in the protocol.

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So it is one of those covid symptoms plus a positive PCR test. No study of how well it prevents infection, just symptomatic diseases.

Rex Racer said:

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fig96 said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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The public should know that the vaccines aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, despite all of us being told from the start this wasn't what they were designed to do?

---

Apparently, much of the public is not aware of this. An old friend of mine posted a scathing rant on Facebook the other day, blaming the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. Never mind that the Delta variant has been around since December 2020, and also since vaccinated people can be infected, it's possible that a vaccinated person could end up being the source of new variants.

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Considering that vaccinated people are far less likely to become infected your friend's conclusion seems pretty reasonable. They aren't necessarily "responsible" for it, but they're certainly a primary factor in the spread.

You'll note the post you quoted says they aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, which is true of most any vaccine.

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My friend's conclusion is NOT reasonable at all because, as I said, the delta variant has been around since December 2020.

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Arrival and spread are two very different things.

If everyone was vaccinated the spread would be greatly reduced.

fig96 said:

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Rex Racer said:

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fig96 said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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The public should know that the vaccines aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, despite all of us being told from the start this wasn't what they were designed to do?

---

Apparently, much of the public is not aware of this. An old friend of mine posted a scathing rant on Facebook the other day, blaming the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. Never mind that the Delta variant has been around since December 2020, and also since vaccinated people can be infected, it's possible that a vaccinated person could end up being the source of new variants.

---

Considering that vaccinated people are far less likely to become infected your friend's conclusion seems pretty reasonable. They aren't necessarily "responsible" for it, but they're certainly a primary factor in the spread.

You'll note the post you quoted says they aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, which is true of most any vaccine.

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My friend's conclusion is NOT reasonable at all because, as I said, the delta variant has been around since December 2020.

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Arrival and spread are two very different things.

If everyone was vaccinated the spread would be greatly reduced.

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Sure, but that's not what my friend claimed. She claimed that the unvaccinated were responsible for the mutation.

Rex Racer said:

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fig96 said:

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Rex Racer said:

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fig96 said:

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Rex Racer said:

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Salute The Marines said:

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The public should know that the vaccines aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, despite all of us being told from the start this wasn't what they were designed to do?

---

Apparently, much of the public is not aware of this. An old friend of mine posted a scathing rant on Facebook the other day, blaming the unvaccinated for the Delta variant. Never mind that the Delta variant has been around since December 2020, and also since vaccinated people can be infected, it's possible that a vaccinated person could end up being the source of new variants.

---

Considering that vaccinated people are far less likely to become infected your friend's conclusion seems pretty reasonable. They aren't necessarily "responsible" for it, but they're certainly a primary factor in the spread.

You'll note the post you quoted says they aren't guaranteed to prevent infection, which is true of most any vaccine.

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My friend's conclusion is NOT reasonable at all because, as I said, the delta variant has been around since December 2020.

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Arrival and spread are two very different things.

If everyone was vaccinated the spread would be greatly reduced.

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Sure, but that's not what my friend claimed. She claimed that the unvaccinated were responsible for the mutation.

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Then that's probably something you should have clarified

You'll note I specifically mentioned the spread.

How many of them are sick? Seems like that is the only pertinent question.

agsalaska said:

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How many of them are sick? Seems like that is the only pertinent question.

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Also pertinent that they are vaccinated AND spreading the virus.

At least the one interviewed by the Washington Post had mild symptoms that would qualify.

Death rate is so freaking low, vax or not.

The Israeli experience with Delta is instructive. PROTECTION

The Israel Health Ministry's data analysis has produced some new estimates about the effectiveness of vaccines.

• In protecting against infection, Pfizer vaccines are 95% effective for the alpha variant but only 64% effective for the delta variant.
• In preventing symptomatic COVID-19 cases, Pfizer vaccines are 97% effective for the alpha variant but only 64% effective for the delta variant.
• In preventing hospitalization and serious disease, Pfizer vaccines are 97.5% effective for the alpha variant and still 93% effective for the delta variant.

Do we have a running list of TA posters that are infected after being fully vaccinated? Need to add my name to the list.