Captain Pablo said:

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Biz Ag said:

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Besides, Reed really wasn't a thing (i.e. proposed) until late in Richards' term when she had little to no influence. (Trust me: I'm no Richards apologist; she was a complete buffoon).

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Reed Arena was being discussed around the time I graduated (c/o '83). Chester Reed donated land near Katy to fund the project. Problem was, the oil business was tanking by the mid-'80's and so was the Houston real estate market. It wasn't worth nearly what it expected to sell for originally.

IIRC, the original design called for a 15,000+ seat facility which had to be scaled back due to funding issues.

To what extent Richards & Bullock jacked up the process, I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

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They didn't. The higher ed board jacked it up when A&M wanted to make up the shortfall with student fees

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When A&M proposed building the arena in the early 90's (1993 sounds right), we proposed to finance our special events center exactly the same way the sips did, with revenue bonds backed by student fees. The HECB said no, questioning our revenue numbers and whether we needed such a facility

Was that refusal directed by Richard's? I doubt it, but that board was filled with appointees who would do her bidding. She was an Austin resident (former Travis County Commissioner), and although a Baylor grad, she was 100% a sip fan.

When the sips were ready to leave the SWC (they wanted to go to the PAC 12 but were being blackballed by Stanford), Bob Bullock (Tech basketball player and Baylor law grad) called in both schools and told them that they would have to join the Big 8 and bring along Tech and Baylor. A&M wanted to go to the SEC but Bullock threatened our funding (the stick), but said if we went along, the HECB would approve our new arena (the carrot). We did the deal, but when it came time for the HECB to approve, however, they still demanded we make a bunch of cuts (including lowering capacity) before they would approve it.

Jaydoug said:

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Reed is big enough.

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Reed needs to be rebuilt too. Reed is not helpful for recruiting.

Aston04 said:

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You don't build volleyball a new gym- basketball needs one too. Build a great basketball and volleyball gym. Have it be able to easily partition off space to keep the environment cosy (would be great for women's basketball too).

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Amen!

I mean I loved the proximity/sight lines. I didn't really care or think about comfort, but of course I'm a lot older now. Thinking about it, I wouldn't buy season tickets to sit on old bleachers

Thoughts on this, Tarleton State just opened of a hell of a 110 million dollar arena. The A&M Board of Regents has poured a lot of money in over there.

twk said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Biz Ag said:

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Quote:

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Besides, Reed really wasn't a thing (i.e. proposed) until late in Richards' term when she had little to no influence. (Trust me: I'm no Richards apologist; she was a complete buffoon).

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Reed Arena was being discussed around the time I graduated (c/o '83). Chester Reed donated land near Katy to fund the project. Problem was, the oil business was tanking by the mid-'80's and so was the Houston real estate market. It wasn't worth nearly what it expected to sell for originally.

IIRC, the original design called for a 15,000+ seat facility which had to be scaled back due to funding issues.

To what extent Richards & Bullock jacked up the process, I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

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They didn't. The higher ed board jacked it up when A&M wanted to make up the shortfall with student fees

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When A&M proposed building the arena in the early 90's (1993 sounds right), we proposed to finance our special events center exactly the same way the sips did, with revenue bonds backed by student fees. The HECB said no, questioning our revenue numbers and whether we needed such a facility

Was that refusal directed by Richard's? I doubt it, but that board was filled with appointees who would do her bidding. She was an Austin resident (former Travis County Commissioner), and although a Baylor grad, she was 100% a sip fan.

When the sips were ready to leave the SWC (they wanted to go to the PAC 12 but were being blackballed by Stanford), Bob Bullock (Tech basketball player and Baylor law grad) called in both schools and told them that they would have to join the Big 8 and bring along Tech and Baylor. A&M wanted to go to the SEC but Bullock threatened our funding (the stick), but said if we went along, the HECB would approve our new arena (the carrot). We did the deal, but when it came time for the HECB to approve, however, they still demanded we make a bunch of cuts (including lowering capacity) before they would approve it.

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The revenue was supposed to come from proceeds from a land sale. That came up short, and that's when A&M turned to the students. Anther poster alluded to the Houston area land donation

Initially, such a big chunk of the money wasnt supposed to come from the students. And it doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter what the sip did

Had A&M done what Texas Tech did, and engaged in an aggressive fundraising effort, we would be in much better shape today

As for the Big 12, there was a great SI article that laid it out

Not the "oral account" one

I can't find the original article but there's an old TexAgs post that obviously cut and pasted the article without citation

https://texags.com/forums/6/topics/1913179

Im curious what's Trev, Jamie and coach Wood thinking on this as well

Jamie recently made a few points in one of his interviews:

1) we don't fully know the demand for this increasingly popular sport

Nebraska dramatically lowered the capacity of the Bob. Now they're looking to increase the size by a few thousand. Texas is unsure how big to build. Jamie said they've already been wrong so far on what they thought demand would be. The key for the Aggie AD needs to be to move to a Tennessee type student ticketing system where you only get good football seats if you go to other sporting events. No more ticket pulls by class and if you don't go to other sports you're not guaranteed a football ticket

2) Jamie also commented on the best facilities the seating is up close to the action

This is the problem with a shared facility with basketball. It's not possible to get close enough for both sports. Maybe there will be some sort of new type of design one day where you get the best of both worlds

It's a complicated topic. We really screwed ourselves with Reed arena and allowing the state to ruin the university plans. The fact that so much money was spent on the players facilities connected to the arena further complicates decisions. Reed having zero premium seating is a problem for revenue generation for all three sports in an era where revenue generation will be key for NIL.

When you look at what Houston, Baylor, Texas and Tech have (miles better arenas) and how successful their basketball programs have been…..it makes you wonder if we should give up on basketball

The biggest solution is what Texas is doing. You need the city to be involved and a new facility needs to host entertainment events year round. BCS is just not big enough. Not enough demand…….that part of the equation needs to be figured out before anything happens

Here's renderings of what Reed would look like with some premium seating added. Not sure how many suites you could add but that's what the donors want and how Nebraska was able to make money off volleyball

Taking out a few thousand seats net for more premium would probably add to the basketball atmosphere since it never sells out. And when it does it would be even better

https://ayerssaintgross.com/work/project/tamu-campus-master-plan/

Here's what the master plan was in 2017

The volleyball arena was set to be right next to the baseball stadium

More interesting though is what they had planned around Reed……get rid of all the parking lots. Build two parking garages on the west side. Fill the rest of the space with retail/dining etc……all the best arenas have somewhere to eat or have a drink before the game. Not having that option near our athletic facilities makes people not want to go

Bacardi Rambo said:

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Im curious what's Trev, Jamie and coach Wood thinking on this as well

Jamie recently made a few points in one of his interviews:

1) we don't fully know the demand for this increasingly popular sport

Nebraska dramatically lowered the capacity of the Bob. Now they're looking to increase the size by a few thousand. Texas is unsure how big to build. Jamie said they've already been wrong so far on what they thought demand would be. The key for the Aggie AD needs to be to move to a Tennessee type student ticketing system where you only get good football seats if you go to other sporting events. No more ticket pulls by class and if you don't go to other sports you're not guaranteed a football ticket

2) Jamie also commented on the best facilities the seating is up close to the action

This is the problem with a shared facility with basketball. It's not possible to get close enough for both sports. Maybe there will be some sort of new type of design one day where you get the best of both worlds

It's a complicated topic. We really screwed ourselves with Reed arena and allowing the state to ruin the university plans. The fact that so much money was spent on the players facilities connected to the arena further complicates decisions. Reed having zero premium seating is a problem for revenue generation for all three sports in an era where revenue generation will be key for NIL.

When you look at what Houston, Baylor, Texas and Tech have (miles better arenas) and how successful their basketball programs have been…..it makes you wonder if we should give up on basketball

The biggest solution is what Texas is doing. You need the city to be involved and a new facility needs to host entertainment events year round. BCS is just not big enough. Not enough demand…….that part of the equation needs to be figured out before anything happens

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I don't think trying to find additional ways to force students to go to non-football sports is really necessary. There has been no lack of students for volleyball matches. I don't know what impact 12MR has on getting students there, but we don't seem to need something more. If you told 35k-40k students they would get better seats for football if they went to volleyball, you would overwhelm Reed with free students and reduce the space for paying fans.

I really don't understand the "volleyball is incompatible with basketball" idea. As I understand it, GRollie was a great environment for basketball. Is there a reason you wouldn't want to be close to the action in basketball? The issue becomes crowd size. You have to switch from a smaller stacked environment to something a bit more like Reed to get more seats with decent sight lines. With the trajectory things are on (increasing avg attendance by more than 1K annually with occasional crowds of 9k+) I think you are going to quickly get to a place where you would have to limit attendance for a closer in environment. There is some advantages to that by saying you are sold out all the time, but I think the AD would be leaving money on the table that would be captured by scalpers.

Reed isn't great for either basketball or volleyball. A replacement could include more premium seating. I think you can also reduce the rows in the lower level, brining the upper closer to the action and expand the upper level to maintain seating, maybe even go 3 levels. You could also get rid of the expandable rows that compensate for having a larger than necessary floor and instead move everything closer.

Lone Stranger said:

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The previous NU coaches and players always talked about how they loved playing in the old dumpy fieldhouse on campus in the 80's and 90's that only held 4500 rabid fans rirght on top of the court as opposed to when they would play in the new/shiny/larger Devaney Center built for BBall on occasion. Lots bigger attendance numbers in Devaney for the AD but not anywhere near the same atmosphere for coaches and players. When NU BBall moved out of Devaney they reconfigured it for a much better volleyball experience more in tune with what the coaches and players wanted. Athletic depts and causal fans always like the "mines bigger than yours" argument.....coaches and players understand bigger and more seats doesn't mean better volleyball atmosphere.

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Cook fought the move to Devaney, which is why they made the changes after basketball left

Reed is a dump. I don't think we need a VB-specific arena, but a better BB/VB would be awesome

ElephantRider said:

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Reed is a dump. I don't think we need a VB-specific arena, but a better BB/VB would be awesome

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Reed does have a little bit of dungeon like feel to it, tech's arena feels way more open. The doors between the concourse and the seats certainly contribute to closed in vibe.

If Jamie likes Reed (?), what about building a new arena for men's basketball and renovating Reed for volleyball and graduations?

Unless the new basketball arena is easier / nicer to also use it for volleyball.

It's funny a few Ags are not happy Jaime is cool with Reed.

Thompson said:

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If Jamie likes Reed (?), what about building a new arena for men's basketball and renovating Reed for volleyball and graduations?

Unless the new basketball arena is easier / nicer to also use it for volleyball.

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Reed was built for graduations. A good graduation/muster facility isn't good for bball/vball.

The only thing wrong with Reed is too many empty seats and yell leaders.

Yep

LB12Diamond said:

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I went to ALL home volleyball games this year. It was great. So not everyone agrees with you.

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I too was at all the home games (for the 3rd year) and enjoyed them immensely. The great atmosphere is because of the fan engagement, not because of the building. I am against a volleyball only arena and think we could sell out Reed on occasion and even average in the 7-10k range in the near future. That will only add to the atmosphere.

My point was that the design criteria for graduation/muster is not the same as the design criteria for a basketball/volleyball venue. If A&M was going to build a new sports arena rather than the general purpose arena that is Reed, there are things that would be done differently.

For a sports venue,

1) you would want premium seating (such as suites and clubs) to increase revenue. Reed doesn't have that, and the AD incorporated Loge Boxes in the corners (4 chairs and a long table) to try to address some of that. Elko sat in one of the Loge boxes for part of tu match.

2) ideally, you want to be closer to the action. The floor of Reed is designed much larger than volleyball/basketball floor, and uses removable seating (double letter rows, not the court side seats) to avoid a huge gap between the seats and court. The larger floor accommodates more floor seating for things like graduation, muster, and concerts. Also the larger floor was useful when Reed hosted monster truck rallies and Lipizzaner stallions as you get more space and better separation of the audience. Because the floor is bigger than needed, the upper level is set back further to provide sightlines to the edge of the oversized floor. Upper level doesn't need to see the back of the heads of the people 5-10 rows from the action. An appropriately sized floor can bring the upper level closer to the action.


However, I doubt we are in a rush to build a new venue, so let's make Reed the best volleyball environment there is. Several of the players commented that the atmosphere in Reed was on par with the atmosphere at Nebraska and we are only half full.

B$Weigem said:

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The only thing wrong with Reed is too many empty seats and yell leaders.

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Why the hate for the yell leaders? The students like them, so much that some will fill in to lead yells when the yell leaders aren't there.

We loved sitting at one of those tables all season. Elko sat right below us.

I was very close to the action all year. If that's important to you, it's easy to accomplish.

And while we are at it, keep the yell leaders away from football as well

Wasn't there a multipurpose event center discussed at council a couple months ago? University and College? Yancy project.

Yes, but it was for the convention center and possibly concerts.

TXAGBQ76 said:

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We loved sitting at one of those tables all season. Elko sat right below us.

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How well could you see the action?

Very well. We had seats at mid court three rows up, intuitively one would think those would be great seats. We had a great view of the back of the ref that blocked a lot.
In a Maroon Club meeting, Jamie said the best way to view/follow volleyball is from behind the action, as you can see more.
Right after that our ticket partners got a call asking if he would like to try a new seating concept they were trying- he asked us and we said yes. Those seats were priced the same our other ones. It was awesome, hope we can do it next year. Evidently it is based on priority points and only four folks got invited- or only four people accepted the offer.

Thanks for the info.

Honolulu Blue said:

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And while we are at it, keep the yell leaders away from football as well

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B$Weigem said:

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The only thing wrong with Reed is too many empty seats and yell leaders.

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Well then somebody needs to get the yell leaders something to eat!

BiochemAg97 said:

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Jamie doesn't want a VB only facility. He wants to fill Reed.

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He actually would like a bigger vb arena than Reed because of the explosion of interest in vb. But he is realist enough to understand that probably wont happen.

Ag-ME said:

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BiochemAg97 said:

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Jamie doesn't want a VB only facility. He wants to fill Reed.

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He actually would like a bigger vb arena than Reed because of the explosion of interest in vb. But he is realist enough to understand that probably wont happen.

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That is true. He didn't like Texas having matches in Moody because Moody holds more than Reed.