Do they actually see those little fingers bending? Almost all of those calls they got right, and the sidelines also. I presume they have so many things to watch, but just the slightest move of the pin or the net, and they're on it. Amazing.

agreed.

I have no idea how refs see some of that. I can barely see if a ball lands in or out. Sometimes I see a ball land clearly one way by a mile but then the replay shows it was actually really close.

Not all refs are good but this last game, it was very well done. The one Lednicky hit that grazed the antenna, beats me how they saw that. I do know they can hear touches as well.

I'm a volleyball novice, still figuring out all the rules.

So, in my expert opinion, I would say the refs are looking at the defenders reaction immediately after the ball passes the net, and that probably determines touch/no touch in a lot of cases. How they get the in/out right at such a high percentage is magic.

I wonder how refs are treated at the club and high school level

Well I did get yelled at by the VT coach many years ago when I called the lines in a Big East match.

So it depends on the coach I guess lol

And yes I'm old enough to have called lines in a big east match lol

Divining Rod said:

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Do they actually see those little fingers bending? Almost all of those calls they got right, and the sidelines also. I presume they have so many things to watch, but just the slightest move of the pin or the net, and they're on it. Amazing.

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They are certainly very good for college matches. Most of the time, they aren't seeing fingers bend but they are seeing the ball change spin.

Seeing the ball change spin or direction. Hearing the contact. I can sometimes pick out the double contact sound, but from where I sit in Reed that is pretty much only on full contacts.

Also, the high tech systems that can eliminate the line judges rely on high speed video for tracking ball position and would be using trajectory changes and changes in spin.

akm91 said:

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And yes I'm old enough to have called lines in a big east match lol

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Are you old enough to have called matches under side-out rules?

me, me, me.....there was a team from Deer Park that won State in late 80's or 90ish.
One OH ( went on to play at Pepperdine, I believe) that was 6' +. Her teammates were 5'8 or shorter. the ball did not touch the floor. They are still the best digging team i ever saw.

Good topic. Yes, I would say the officiating is light years better than the officiating for college women's basketball, although admittedly a lot easier without the contact. Women's soccer officiating has its head-scratching games too, but seems to be getting better.

Club? I would assume pretty viciously as most are single officials with a club ref ( think coach) as the R2.

In HS in Texas, very good. VB has the fewest incident reports for ANY sport to UIL. and from my experience, great demeanor. yes, there is the catcalls from the overzealous dad's at times, but we VB are a tight knit group. Training is good, consistent and user friendly-

taylorswift13_ said:

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I wonder how refs are treated at the club and high school level

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It's not like other sports. A coach talking to the ref will result in immediate disciplinary action (yellow or red card). Not sure all of the implications. My niece plays competitive club volleyball and I learned that coaches do not talk to the referee, only the captain (I ref HS/Club soccer and would love for this to happen).

Talk from parents also gets about zero tolerance so the ref's actually treated pretty well compared to BB, Soccer, FB, and esp. baseball.

You all would get a kick out of how they officiate club volleyball matches at tournaments. First of all, volleyball is a VERY expensive sport to play. If you have a kid who plays select baseball it is every bit as expensive as that. But not much of that money goes to officials.

When tournament schedules are posted, you are generally in a 4 team pool and you play a match against the other 3 teams in your pool on Saturday(just two sets for seeding purposes) with bracket play on Sunday. Your pool games are all on the same court so you have some down time between matches. So generally it may look like play, rest, play, ref, play. In other words, your team is responsible for officiating one of the matches in your pool. There is always a paid official who is elevated at the net but for every other match the official on the opposite side of the court is the coach of the team who is assigned to ref, there are three girls (players for the assigned team) at the scoring table (one libero tracker, one keeping the book, and one flipping the manual score for the fans to see). Then you have a player who is the line judge on each side of the court at the baseline. Obviously they make some bad calls from time to time and may get a little grief from fans but not generally because the fans also realize their daughters have to do the same job and it isn't easy. Generally if it is a close call or you aren't 100% sure it was out then you just call it in (like tennis).

It's a unique system to essentially get 5-6 free workers to officiate every game in tournaments that cost a lot of money to enter but that's how it works...even at the big time national tournaments.

agracer said:

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taylorswift13_ said:

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I wonder how refs are treated at the club and high school level

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It's not like other sports. A coach talking to the ref will result in immediate disciplinary action (yellow or red card). Not sure all of the implications. My niece plays competitive club volleyball and I learned that coaches do not talk to the referee, only the captain (I ref HS/Club soccer and would love for this to happen).

Talk from parents also gets about zero tolerance so the ref's actually treated pretty well compared to BB, Soccer, FB, and esp. baseball.

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2 yellow cards in a set = 1 red card = point for the other team. At least based on the comments during the Louisville game when the coach launched the ball into the stands.

I don't know what you have to do to get a red card, but it seems you have to be pretty special to get two yellow cards in a set.

FluAggie said:

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It's a unique system to essentially get 5-6 free workers to officiate every game in tournaments that cost a lot of money to enter but that's how it works...even at the big time national tournaments.

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how much more would it be if you had to pay for those positions ?

Wicked Good Ag said:

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FluAggie said:

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It's a unique system to essentially get 5-6 free workers to officiate every game in tournaments that cost a lot of money to enter but that's how it works...even at the big time national tournaments.

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how much more would it be if you had to pay for those positions ?

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It would be a ton. At a NQ with 190 courts running 16 matches per day for 3 days. The math is nuts. The system works well enough as it is despite the occasional girl daydreaming while calling lines.

I called Texas high school volleyball games a long time ago and calling tips usually wasn't too hard. As others have said, the ball motion, the sound, the fingers bending, all gave clues.

The hardest part for me was, as the down official, making sure pre-serve positions of the receiving team was legal. I couldn't imagine doing that at the collegiate level.

Backyard Gator said:

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akm91 said:

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And yes I'm old enough to have called lines in a big east match lol

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Are you old enough to have called matches under side-out rules?

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Not only did I call lines under those rules, I played and coached under those rules lol

first time at a club volleyball national qualifier (especially the BIG ones) is eye opening. Courts as far as the eyes can see. Takes 10 minutes to walk from one end to the other. Multiple venues as well. Not sure if there is anything like it in the sports world. 200 courts x 4 teams in the each and there is the morning and afternoon waves so x2 that number for 3 straight days and multiple weekends now.

It was fun for me but I'm glad those days are over.

Wicked Good Ag said:

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FluAggie said:

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It's a unique system to essentially get 5-6 free workers to officiate every game in tournaments that cost a lot of money to enter but that's how it works...even at the big time national tournaments.

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how much more would it be if you had to pay for those positions ?

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Haha....a TON and really I don't think you would get much better results. A paid adult probably has worse eyesight than the girls do...just a better attention span!

As said above, the amount of noise and celebration at these national tournaments is insane. Some of these large convention centers have 150 courts all in a continuous space all going at once. And if you watch girls volleyball they celebrate EVERY point so basically you have 3,000 girls + their parents and fans pretty much celebrating and cheering literally every second you are in there.

There is nothing to compare it to...maybe a Taylor Swift concert. Haha. But it is awesome!

flintdragon said:

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while the girls can be loud, it's the whistles man... talk about PTSD. I still hear whistles in my dreams...

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Absolutely… Lots and lots of whistles!!!

flintdragon said:

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while the girls can be loud, it's the whistles man... talk about PTSD. I still hear whistles in my dreams...

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Noise cancelling headphones for the win!!