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Swimmers won 28 medals, or 22 percent of the U.S. Olympic Team's total in Athens. Twelve of them were gold, nine silver and seven bronze. At the 2007 World Championships Americans had their best performance ever, amassing 36 medals, with 20 of them gold. They also set 12 world records.

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Looking forward to seeing if we can match our 28 from Athens and approach the 36 we took at last year's World Championships.

We're off to a great start. 15 total already. 5 gold, 5 silver, 5 bronze.

Should beat the gold total at least. I remember reading people thinking the women may be a little weaker this year, but they seem to be doing very well.

I really thought Coughlin would fail last night but she came through - barely. I also thought Hoff would have a gold by now - but she is swimming well and getting beat by some superb swims. She's only 19.

Consider that we are doing well in spite of Hansen's poor swim. Phelps is just amazing and looks unstoppable.

I really felt horrible for Hoff when she barely lost the gold in her last swim, taking home the silver. She just looked crushed, but it was a great come from behind swim by the girl from GBR.

I feel like we've had a couple surprising performances by some of our female swimmers. Rebecca Soni took the silver in the 100 breast, Christine Magnuson took silver in the 100 fly, and Margaret Hoelzer the bronze in the 100 back. Not that these girls weren't supposed to medal, but swimmers from other countries could have snuck in to steal their medals with good swims. They all put in good finals swims to reach the podium.

So is the pool in China just "fast" or what? It seems like they're breaking WRs every time they race. Even some of the prelims are producing WRs.

They're using new high tech suits which have helped a lot.

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So is the pool in China just "fast" or what? It seems like they're breaking WRs every time they race. Even some of the prelims are producing WRs.

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Fastest pool in the world + fastest suits in the world + better steroids = Crushing world records.

The pool is clearly fast and the suits are a factor. But the suits were worn throughout 2008 so this isn't the first appearance for the LZR and other technical suits. Notice that Phelps just wore a jammer for his 400 IM swims.

I don't believe swimming is tainted strongly by PEDs. There really is no evidence of it - and they don't have the decades of experience with it like cyclists and track&field.

Swimming training - especially for sprints - has changed significantly over the last decade. More weights, less distance, more race pace work. Hence the world records.

Note that they finally broke Janet Evans 1988 Olympic record in the 400M free. Maybe they'll finally break her 1989 800M world record, but I don't think it will happen.

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I don't believe swimming is tainted strongly by PEDs. There really is no evidence of it - and they don't have the decades of experience with it like cyclists and track&field.

Swimming training - especially for sprints - has changed significantly over the last decade. More weights, less distance, more race pace work. Hence the world records.

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I find it unlikely that swimming is free from PED's. Swimming may not have had a big scandal yet, but that's cause they haven't been caught yet. T&F and cycling have figured out how to get under the radar. They aren't going to just keep that to themselves. Talking about changing training methods is the same thing they said about baseball in the 90's. I suspect all the major Olympic events are heavily influenced by PED's. Watching all these records fall is like watching McGwire and Sosa go at it in '98. It's fun, but in ten years we'll probably look back and realize we were idiots.

[This message has been edited by AustinAg2K (edited 8/12/2008 2:29p).]

AustinAg - I didn't say swimming didn't have any PEDs. A USA swimmer, Jessica Hardy, tested positive at trials for clenbuterol, a banned stimulant. There have been a few positive tests in recent history.

I just don't believe PEDs are used as widely as they are in many other sports. I don't think the culture has existed like it has for cycling. I don't think the underground is as prevalent. No mysterious labs in Spain storing blood for dozens of athletes.

I don't think the McGuire example is relevent - in fact no baseball example matters to swimming. MLB had NO testing whatsoever during the Bonds/McGuire era. So the athletes basically could do what they wanted for years with no fear of consequences.

Michael Phelps is one of the athletes who have volunteered blood samples for long term storage and future testing by the WADA. So at least some of the elite swimmers are taking a proactive stance towards testing.

I asked because I wondered if the Chinese set up the pool in a way that would allow records to be broken. Maybe they feel like their games would be more memorable if a bunch of WRs were set there. I don't know much about swimming, but to see these records fall again and again just makes we wonder.

Swimming records fell at a very brisk pace in Sydney and Athens as well, not to mention at meets leading up to Beijing this year. With a few exceptions, records just don't last these days.

We should get real close. Heck Phelps has at least 5 more medals to come, hopefully they will all be GOLD baby! Woohooo. USA!!!

A fast pool is deep, has stable temps about 80 deg. F, no perceptible water currents, no gutters, and wave absorbing lane ropes. These are common in most "fast" pools now including the A&M rec center. Indoor pools are also faster that outdoor pools because of no wind and stable air temps.

Athens in 2004 didn't get many WRs, probably because it was outdoors.

I don't think I'm naive. Swimming training methods have evolved significantly over the last decade. The new swimsuits may be part of a temporary burst of speed - until everyone has them and uses them routinely over the coming years.

We of course have Phelps who by himself will probably be involved in 7-8 world records.

Spicewood is right on, I'll add that the temp is usually even lower than 80, closer to low 70s.

A fast pool will also have as much saline in the water as is legal to create more buoyancy.

Here's a look at the world record progression in the 100m free:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_record_progression_100_metres_freestyle

recent years' improvements are really not as drastic as people have been making it seem. Historically the records only stick arround for a couple years, going all the way back to the early 1900's. The drastic drop in recent records is that there are so many events that have had drops rather than re-breaking all the records over and over. That is pretty typical in Olympic years and heightened this year from the LZR and a very talented group.

Remember that in swimming facility improvements have been continuous over the entire century while there's not as much room for improvement for track facilities.

As for the culture? I am a little scared that the swimming community is being naive, but history has shown that in swimming the bad apples get called out and found out very quickly (East German women in 70's, Chinese women in 90's, a few suspicions such as Angel Martino in the 90's). Nobody has been shouting, so we'll see what happens.

H2O - FINA requires the pool temperature to be between 25-28 degrees celsius. That means between 77 and 82. I think is usually on the cooler side of the range.

BTW - the 100 free progression is especially good to look at. Freestyle really hasn't changed in decades (where backstroke and breaststroke have had several rules changes). Freestyle is also the most popular stroke - more people race freestyle than any other.

Another disappointing swim for Hoff in the 200 free, finishing 4th

Another fantastic swim for Phelps in the 200 fly, another WR

Coughlin takes the bronze in the 200 IM (Hoff 4th)

Complete domination for the U.S. 4x200 free relay. Broke the WR by 5 seconds. 5th gold and WR for Phelps.

5/5 Golds for Phelps is awesome, but 5/5 WRs is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!!

18 total swimming medals now (7g, 5s, 6b)

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5/5 Golds for Phelps is awesome, but 5/5 WRs is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!!

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Except for that mustachioed gentleman in Munich that went 7/7 with golds and WR's.

Has two relatively tough ones coming up in 200IM and 100 fly...definitely favored, but has a couple teammates that may push him. Win those and he has it...no way American lose medley relay unless they DQ.

Spice - I did not know that about the temperature. Thanks for the info.

Phelps 200 fly win was incredible because he did the race with his goggles full of water. That is worse than no goggles at all. He couldn't see above or below the surface. He said he had to count strokes to judge the walls hoping he'd hit them right. He couldn't see his competitors. I bet judging depth off the walls was impossible.

And he still wins gold and gets a WR.

FWIW - I raced a 50 breast as Master's Worlds in 2006 with my goggles full of water. It was only a 50. It absolutely sucked - I can't imagine racing in the Olympics for a 200 like that.

Yeah, goggles full of water is the worst. I used to actually tear them off my head when it happened to me. Can't really do that on the olympic level though!

That probably wasn't the promotion Speedo had hoped for...dang lousy goggles!

spits went 7/7 with all gold’s and world records in MEXICO...not Munich...and Phelps is part of a new testing where they compare others blood to his so you know he is 100% clean and still kicking ass...I’m sure some people use PEDs but I’m sure Phelps doesn’t...that makes me so happy knowing that our best swimmer is just that good...but the records are due to the fastest pool and the new suits...and new training...not anything like PEDs the swimmers that use those are most likely the lesser swimmers trying to win

Cherokee - It should be easy for you to verify that Mark Spitz earned his 7 gold medals in Munich Germany in 1972.

Spitz also swam in Mexico City in 1968 - but he earned 2 relay golds, a silver in 100 fly, and a bronze in 100 free. Spitz swam below his abilities in Mexico City.

if it ever came out that phelps was using PEDs...i'd die

good call spicewood...dyslexia for the epic fail on my part..i dont think that it will ever come out that phelps was using PED's...

[This message has been edited by CherokeeChief24 (edited 8/13/2008 10:55a).]

Phelps cheating would have epic impact. It has never been suspected no matter how fast he has gone. Phelps has age group swimming records that go back to when he was 10! He still has the age group record for 10 & under 100m fly set in 1996. He has been an elite swimmer forever.

Everyone in swimming knows he trains harder, longer, and with more pure dedication than anyone in the world.

they also test him more than any other swimmer ever

Well, Lance Armstrong was tested more than any other cyclist and people still continually claimed he was a cheater.