I volunteer to be a mod. Then I can give myself an Ag Tag.
* Some of My Thoughts on Moderation - Please Read *
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Last: 4 days ago by ac04
Only two pages for the cruseter to get called out...
What were the numbers on Listeater day?
I just want my freakin Ag Tag
Hey TexAgs Staff...can I please have my AgTag?
Hey TexAgs Staff...can I please have my AgTag?
If you need a Longhorn to Moderate I'll be glad to. This site kicks Hornfans ass.
And I'll be glad to help out any organization who gives us easy wins and Chilifest
And I'll be glad to help out any organization who gives us easy wins and Chilifest
This topic has moved me to action.
My response to this thread:
http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=591248&forum_id=12
My response to this thread:
http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=591248&forum_id=12
quote:
I’m still not on board with the penalty box, but maybe there is something in the middle that can implemented.
Why not?? I take credit for the idea of the penalty box though. I can't think of any compromises with it though.
Emotional Support Cobra
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AG
Frighteningly enough, a Texags screen replete with a penalty box appeared in my dream last night. Want to know who was in the penalty box? Caramel Twix, ostensibly for creating a not-nice thread title.
I have no idea about what I was dreaming, but I do remember the penalty box.
I have no idea about what I was dreaming, but I do remember the penalty box.
quote:
I remember reading, a long time ago, that you took away moderator/staff tags from people because posters wouldn't 'be themselves' when they saw a moderator on the thread. I think this was a mistake. Mods have to be held responsible for their actions as well.
I'll 3rd or 4th this comment. I think this would take care of some of the consistency issue.
Also, it would allow your subscribers to communicate with you (or other staff members) about mods that maybe should not be mods.
[This message has been edited by Professional Ag (edited 3/10/2006 9:41a).]
Just to be the "other side of the coin" here, if moderator tags are in place, then that also leaves open the possibility of harrassment and/or abuse of those who take the time and effort to see that the site stays credible.
LifeLongAg,
That may be true, but in every other BB I've been too, you know who the moderators are. Plus, the GB is full of harassment anyway, so really, nothing would change.
That may be true, but in every other BB I've been too, you know who the moderators are. Plus, the GB is full of harassment anyway, so really, nothing would change.
If one chooses to accept the responsibility of being a mod, then that person should be able to handle what comes with it, both positive and negative.
LifeLong - Then write in that undue harassment of mods is not acceptable in the updated user agreement. While that may still be subjective, both parties would have a face.
quote:
LifeLong - Then write in that undue harassment of mods is not acceptable in the updated user agreement. While that may still be subjective, both parties would have a face.
Exactly.
In any sporting event, you always know exactly who the officals or moderators are. They function within the game, share a court/field with the players and coaches and regulate the ongoings of their sport.
But as soon as you start acting out towards the official, you've earned your self an ejection/technical/penalty etc.
Curmudgeons thread made me think of this: being able to ignore users. I'd definitely pay then.
WatchOle
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The moderators ARE accountable - they are accountable to me. You guys didn't elect them, I appointed them. I will hold them accountable.
The site software logs all moderator activity, including bans, for later review. This mod log serves an effective level of accountability. In the case of a ban, the moderators are required to provide reasoning for why the ban was issued. Sometimes I, or one of the more senior mods, will lift or shorten a ban after review.
It was my decision to make them anonymous. I did this for multiple reasons some of the more important being the following:
1. Not being publicly designated as a moderator allows that moderator to continue their participation as a normal site citizen.
2. I want the moderators to be able to moderate without fear of reprisal. We’ve had some wack-jobs do some pretty crazing stuff to other posters on this site, I don’t want to put the moderators in that type of situation.
3. I want to limit any potential ego problems with moderators. In the early days of TexAgs, the moderators were public and this eventually created some considerable problems with a few as their egos got the best of them. As it stands now, there’s very little glory or stature as a moderator on this site. They do it instead as a service to the community – not to drive an ego. I am very thankful to them for this.
B
The site software logs all moderator activity, including bans, for later review. This mod log serves an effective level of accountability. In the case of a ban, the moderators are required to provide reasoning for why the ban was issued. Sometimes I, or one of the more senior mods, will lift or shorten a ban after review.
It was my decision to make them anonymous. I did this for multiple reasons some of the more important being the following:
1. Not being publicly designated as a moderator allows that moderator to continue their participation as a normal site citizen.
2. I want the moderators to be able to moderate without fear of reprisal. We’ve had some wack-jobs do some pretty crazing stuff to other posters on this site, I don’t want to put the moderators in that type of situation.
3. I want to limit any potential ego problems with moderators. In the early days of TexAgs, the moderators were public and this eventually created some considerable problems with a few as their egos got the best of them. As it stands now, there’s very little glory or stature as a moderator on this site. They do it instead as a service to the community – not to drive an ego. I am very thankful to them for this.
B
You say the moderators are accoutable, if they ban someone.
well they should also be accountable if they DON'T ban someone that a different moderator would have in the same situation.
this would make it "more consistent"
well they should also be accountable if they DON'T ban someone that a different moderator would have in the same situation.
this would make it "more consistent"
Blah...Blah...Blah...
WatchOle
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Brennus,
Granted - an sometimes that does occur, but it's very seldom. The reason being, this is just too difficult to track and review.
One thing I want to point out is that a poster that has a mod log a mile long (and there are some that do), is going to be on a shorter leash. There are two reasons for this:
1. They should know better by now. After 50+ topic removals and 5 warnings they should know that excessive sexual conversation is not allowed.
2. Once a poster starts requiring a higher than average amount of moderating, they become a “target” for the moderators. This isn’t done purposefully, but rather the poster has proven that they need to be watched so the moderators start reading their posts more often. They find themselves on a virtual “bad list” so to speak. If the poster straightens up, the moderators move on and they are no longer a “target”.
[update]
Oh, and there is a 3rd reason:
Remember that the moderators are working through reams of posts in their finite amount of spare time. It is very frustating for them to have to moderate the same behavior by the same poster time after time. This poster begins to require a disproportionate amount of everyone's limited time. In response, the moderation becomes swifter and more harsh.
B
[This message has been edited by WatchOle (edited 3/10/2006 12:15p).]
Granted - an sometimes that does occur, but it's very seldom. The reason being, this is just too difficult to track and review.
One thing I want to point out is that a poster that has a mod log a mile long (and there are some that do), is going to be on a shorter leash. There are two reasons for this:
1. They should know better by now. After 50+ topic removals and 5 warnings they should know that excessive sexual conversation is not allowed.
2. Once a poster starts requiring a higher than average amount of moderating, they become a “target” for the moderators. This isn’t done purposefully, but rather the poster has proven that they need to be watched so the moderators start reading their posts more often. They find themselves on a virtual “bad list” so to speak. If the poster straightens up, the moderators move on and they are no longer a “target”.
[update]
Oh, and there is a 3rd reason:
Remember that the moderators are working through reams of posts in their finite amount of spare time. It is very frustating for them to have to moderate the same behavior by the same poster time after time. This poster begins to require a disproportionate amount of everyone's limited time. In response, the moderation becomes swifter and more harsh.
B
[This message has been edited by WatchOle (edited 3/10/2006 12:15p).]
so how long is the log of arms&legs, 12thmanfactorag, jim jack & aggies, etc etc.?
[This message has been edited by Old Faithful (edited 3/10/2006 11:38a).]
So certain things are allowed for people that DON'T have a mod list a mile long, that would have gotten someone else a ban. I see.
Watch Ole, it would be nice if we coudl get the mod logs if we request it. I know that would help me understand what to stay away from more. I am typically a very good poster, don't cause trouble, all of that...and there are sometimes I have deserved a ban, but others I have not. Is it possible to get these from you so that we can better understand what they are watching and where we have crossed over in the past?
WatchOle
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Brennus,
Absolutely. And it is the same way in "real life" - isn't it?
[edit]
Let me back up. There are two things at play here:
1. As a poster builds a mod log, the moderators start watching them closer (which is only natural). Many times they get caught doing something that another poster has done or is doing, but the other poster doesn't get caught because they aren't being watched as closely. Keep in mind: it is not possible for the mods to read every post - especially on the General.
2. As a poster builds a mod log, the consequences of their actions become greater. So, one poster might receive an edit, while another poster (with a long mod history) would receive a warning and/or a short ban. Some call this “favoritism” – I call it life. Our justice system works the same way.
B
[This message has been edited by WatchOle (edited 3/10/2006 12:02p).]
Absolutely. And it is the same way in "real life" - isn't it?
[edit]
Let me back up. There are two things at play here:
1. As a poster builds a mod log, the moderators start watching them closer (which is only natural). Many times they get caught doing something that another poster has done or is doing, but the other poster doesn't get caught because they aren't being watched as closely. Keep in mind: it is not possible for the mods to read every post - especially on the General.
2. As a poster builds a mod log, the consequences of their actions become greater. So, one poster might receive an edit, while another poster (with a long mod history) would receive a warning and/or a short ban. Some call this “favoritism” – I call it life. Our justice system works the same way.
B
[This message has been edited by WatchOle (edited 3/10/2006 12:02p).]
Well it doesn't have to be that way, at least in my opinion.
If you stated that going around the filter is a bannable offensive, I wouldn't complain as long as everytime a person tricked the filter (and caught by a mod) they were banned for a set time. Even a first time offender shouldn't be upset, especially if you included an email stating exactly what they did wrong and where it was stated for them not to do it. Even in your example of sexual conversation it is the same.
I just don't think it is good policy to say alright you can do this 50 times and then we are going to discipline you. Just discipline them the first time.
I know some of this (such as what is and isn't an offensive ) you are looking at, and what things are allowed on certain boards.
Thanks
If you stated that going around the filter is a bannable offensive, I wouldn't complain as long as everytime a person tricked the filter (and caught by a mod) they were banned for a set time. Even a first time offender shouldn't be upset, especially if you included an email stating exactly what they did wrong and where it was stated for them not to do it. Even in your example of sexual conversation it is the same.
I just don't think it is good policy to say alright you can do this 50 times and then we are going to discipline you. Just discipline them the first time.
I know some of this (such as what is and isn't an offensive ) you are looking at, and what things are allowed on certain boards.
Thanks
Brandon,
So what you are saying is that I should go back to my posting style back in 2003... when I a good kid.
It makes me wonder exactly when my mod log started. I think it's when my mom died, and my dog left me. Those where hard times
So what you are saying is that I should go back to my posting style back in 2003... when I a good kid.
It makes me wonder exactly when my mod log started. I think it's when my mom died, and my dog left me. Those where hard times
I can understand the 'watch list' effect. After all, every airlines uses the same guide lines, and if you are on it, you are going to get a little extra 'hands on' care at the airport.
Yeah is it possible to get a copy of my list?
WatchOle
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Brennus,
I think your under the wrong impression that banning is the only form of discipline. In actuality, it is our last form of discipline. The first level is editing a post. So, in that light, an edit of a post by a moderator should be the individual’s initial indication that what they are posting is inappropriate. Many times the moderator will leave a note behind saying, “hey this is inappropriate”.
Also, banning is our last form of discipline because it is time consuming for us. It is not feasible for us to go off banning everyone for every little thing. An edit/removal is faster, cleaner and should be all that is necessary.
B
[This message has been edited by WatchOle (edited 3/10/2006 12:13p).]
I think your under the wrong impression that banning is the only form of discipline. In actuality, it is our last form of discipline. The first level is editing a post. So, in that light, an edit of a post by a moderator should be the individual’s initial indication that what they are posting is inappropriate. Many times the moderator will leave a note behind saying, “hey this is inappropriate”.
Also, banning is our last form of discipline because it is time consuming for us. It is not feasible for us to go off banning everyone for every little thing. An edit/removal is faster, cleaner and should be all that is necessary.
B
[This message has been edited by WatchOle (edited 3/10/2006 12:13p).]
quote:
Well it doesn't have to be that way, at least in my opinion.
It does as long as Brandon owns/runs the site - he gets to choose how he operates this board. And yes, we've heard all of the threats of texags' certain demise if Brandon doesn't change his ways...blah, blah, blah, blah!
If you want to participate on a board run a different way, either go to other boards or start your own. Voila!...problem solved!
[This message has been edited by aggiebylegacy (edited 3/10/2006 12:17p).]
quote:It's pretty obvious that this is a major source of the inconsistency of moderation. You implied in your original post that inconsistency is substantially "perceived," but this policy shows one way that it is very real, and in this example the inconsistency is not due simply to the fact that the moderators are all unique individuals.
One thing I want to point out is that a poster that has a mod log a mile long (and there are some that do), is going to be on a shorter leash.
Your reasons for treating problem posters differently are sound, but if you're really interested in improving consistency and reducing frustration with the moderation process, then my suggestion is to do at least one of the following:
(1) Make the guidelines more clear (more bright lines), and enforce them strictly without regard to a poster's past history. Don't punish a problem poster for minor infractions that others get away with on a regular basis. By the same token, don't let rookies and first-time
offenders off the hook when they break a rule. Minor exception to equality of moderation: Permanent bans for persistent infringement of bright-line rules should be expected.
(2) Make the entire process more open. Several suggestions for doing this have already been made.
a. You have already indicated an intention to follow up with reasoning for moderation decisions more often, so that's good. The bans are often obvious, but there are many times when a thread is locked or deleted and honestly, NOBODY (except the moderator, apparently) can figure out why.
b. I believe the moderators' identities should be public, but you're the boss and it sounds like you're not very flexible on that point so I'll move on.
c. Bannings should be public and reasons shouldn't be secret. This helps establish consistent rules. I have seen many threads locked and deleted when users were just wondering if, why, and for how long a user was banned. What's the point of that? It just makes users more uneasy with, or even hostile to, the whole process when any discussion of a moderation decision is censored.
d. Perhaps a user should have access to his or her own moderation log.
e. Pretty much any other practice that increases the confusion of users or opacity of moderation should be eliminated, if feasible.
Thanks for the site and all your hard work! And good luck.
quote:
should be all that is necessary
but it isn't, and that is painfully obvious.
WatchOle
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Tool,
Very good points. I will consider them all - except the public moderator bit, of course.
B
Very good points. I will consider them all - except the public moderator bit, of course.
B
B,
Make me a moderator. Let the world know I am a moderator. I would love to be the guinea pig for this.
I will control my ego, and be as fair and balnaced as fox news is.
[This message has been edited by Mexirab 00 (edited 3/10/2006 12:26p).]
Make me a moderator. Let the world know I am a moderator. I would love to be the guinea pig for this.
I will control my ego, and be as fair and balnaced as fox news is.
[This message has been edited by Mexirab 00 (edited 3/10/2006 12:26p).]
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