Redstone said:

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Most recent interview with Ron Miscavige (still a "public" Scientologist")

https://m.youtube.com/user/SurvivingScientology

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This is actually the thing that I don't feel like the show has properly illustrated.

MANY of the people who leave the 'church' still consider themselves Scientologists, but break from the organized portion of the religion...



Which still makes them dumb, just not slaves.

I think the way to end Scientology is to infiltrate it like the mob. Too bad none of these high level defectors thought about contacting the FBI prior to defecting. They would have been perfect sources. One bug planted in that boardroom or in Miscavige's office would be a goldmine. If foreign intel organizations cannot find our bugs, then there is no way Scientology morons could. I'd think that catching them admitting to racketeering would be plenty. I'm no lawyer, but according to Wikipedia, 2 acts of racketeering in a 10 year span gets 20 years of prison per racketeering count to those who ordered it under RICO.

ok. How long do I have to wait for this? I'm genuinely excited.

That looks good!

Churches that expel you aren't churches.

MooreTrucker said:

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mazzag said:

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Churches that expel you aren't churches.

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So Catholic is not a church?

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I probably should have said religions, not churches. Scientology has thrived from media and movie stars, but it seems the internet and social media may be it's demise. As it should be. It's charitable status is as much of a joke as the Clinton Foundation. Does the Catholic Church currently expel folks?

See. Family members are tethers and folks are scared to lose them. If you want to leave a church/religion, you should be allowed to do so freely and if your family wants to pray for you about that decision and still accept you, that's ok. If your family member doesn't accept your decision to leave, it should be from their own convictions, not from threats.

Guitarsoup said:

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mazzag said:

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Churches that expel you aren't churches.

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1 Cor 5:11-13

11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindlernot even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."


Matt 18:15-17

If Your Brother Sins Against You

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

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Bought a copy of "Going Clear" yesterday. I didn't know Lawrence Wright wrote it. This is gonna be good.

Been catching bits and pieces... holy cow...

I'm convinced if Cruise ever flipped, that would be the total and complete end to this cult. Kudos to Leah for taking the stand. If only Katie Holmes would do the same - she wasn't in it but surely saw and experienced some disturbing things.

I'm sure Katie signed a massive NDA. I would love to hear her side. She was taking courses and auditing and had the quiet Scientology birth with suri. She probably got smart and was like "you people are effing crazy".

Big Al 1992 said:

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I'm convinced if Cruise ever flipped, that would be the total and complete end to this cult. Kudos to Leah for taking the stand. If only Katie Holmes would do the same - she wasn't in it but surely saw and experienced some disturbing things.

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I agree with this. I think he's a big part of its "credibility" to your average Joe

I have a question about the contracts. How enforceable are they?

That lady did leave when she was 18, even though she wanted to almost immediately. The reason was that she would have been facing a 40k 'freeloader' bill.

That got me to thinking about the legality of them.

A. Many of the people signed these when they were minors.
B. Is it any different than an employee leaving a company, who incurred training costs, etc? If you're in the Sea Org, you're working for them 24/7...earning your keep, etc.

AGinHI said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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However, unlike Scientology and the Mormons, they don't try to keep the family members that are still members from interacting.

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We're Mormon. Not only do we live with inactive family members, but we have very close relationships with an excommunicated member and family that has left the church altogether--all within our immediate family.

I guess that blows your theory out of the water.

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He might be thinking of the FLDS

Seems like Scientology was relatively benign until Miscavige.

It is not what our church teaches.

Maybe the exceptions that you are speaking of regarding LDS aren't myself but whoever has had a negative experience.

I get the disdain people have for LDS (I remember you from R&P). My own parents told me I joined a cult when I was baptized almost 20 years ago. Which is funny, given my brother, a Catholic, has disowned them while we remain very close. My parents haven't seen their grandkids in over a decade--smh.

And we often attend Baptist church with my wife's parents, who for the longest time have only shown contempt for our beliefs, because we want them to have a relationship with their grandchildren. Our children have attended both Catholic and Baptist services with their grandparents.

And we're not trying to convert anybody.

And the only friends I lost were the ones who didn't like that I converted.

But I digress...

Edit:

Quote:

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The challenge we may confront is remaining loyal to the Savior and His Church in the face of parents, in-laws, brothers or sisters, or even our children whose conduct, beliefs, or choices make it impossible to support both Him and them. the Lord reminds us, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."So although familial love continues, relationships may be interrupted and, according to the circumstances, even support or tolerance at times suspended for the sake of our higher love.

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Yes. When I converted my parents were going to disown me and I was still going to get baptized. I was willing to lose that relationship. Not because I was severing it though. Even still, I worked to maintain it. Now my children attend Catholic Church with my parents when they are in town.


My wife's father (ex-mormon) and step-mother are anti-mormon Baptists and we had to tell them to respect our beliefs, knowing if they persisted in their behavior that we would not allow our children to stay with them without our supervision. They respected our wishes and we have a good relationship. Again, our boys also attend Baptist church with them and without us.

I guess we are interpreting the quotes you posted differently.

That's all I will add on the matter since most want to stay on topic.

Lets keep this thread on track...

That's why I said I digress.

Pretty much stating I'm done.

Sorry for the temporary derail.

No worries...just figured I'd head the derail off at the pass.

Redstone said:

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HI, much like Scientology - of which Hubbard cribbed much of from hypnotism (he was skilled), Crowley, and Parsons - the convert must take much from the good word and character of Joseph Smith (another very talented charlatan).

These quite simply are not men of good character. And even serious Mormon and Mormon-friendly scholars admit there is zero evidence in the North American archeological record for Smith's (and the several editors close after him) claims. (For example, Gutjahr's The Book of Mormon).

What made you want to convert to this?

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...Annnnnd here we go!