Paul Sparks is really good in this.

If they ever make a Harvey Winestein movie or mini series Glenn Fleshler has that role in the bag.

I think this show is really good and I'm enjoying it, but the timing and pacing seems off.

We're through episode 4 of 6 and only on what day 8 of 51.

I assume one entire episode is going to be dedicated to the final take over. So now we're left with one episode to cover 43 days.

Just seems like they're gonna be strapped for time and it'll be interesting how they transition into the pace change.

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So now we're left with one episode to cover 43 days.

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I think we're going to need a montage.

Hate to derail this again but must chime in -

The only innocents in that building were the children who were brought into that mess. Any adult who allowed the sexual assault of the children by commission or omission is a criminal without a doubt.

Some of the children were found dead from blunt head wounds and stab wounds. I am not sure if this was to ease their death as the fire spread or for other reasons.

Koresh delayed his surrender. All he had to do was surrender and everyone else would have been left alone.

Some of his followers killed 4 FEDERAL AGENTS. No one was going to stand down after that even though it went on for almost 50 more days.

I don't recall the weapons and ammunition laws at the time, however if a FEDERAL judge signed a PROBABLE CAUSE search warrant for the location, it is a lawful order. It is possible the Feds were not able to obtain probable cause for the rapes because everyone was uncooperative and barricaded inside. Therefore they attempted to investigate the inside of the structure with another lawful order.

No Federal Agent intentionally burned that building down. It is possible they were using "Hot gas" which is tear gas that when deployed can start fires if landing in an area that can burn. I believe all agencies were using "hot gas" back then as an improved version had not yet been developed. I still believe they set the fires from inside as they predicted it to be the end of the world. I do not think with all the agencies involved that there is a cover up with the fires.

Flame away.

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I do not think with all the agencies involved that there is a cover up with the fires.

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Pretty good episode again. Kitsch and Shannon continue to crush it.

Interesting to see the psychological influence Koresh had on those inside.

FWIW those noises would've gotten me out REAL quick.

Agreed. This has been a great show, and next week should be pretty wild. I'm interested to see what their opinion is of how the fire started, if it was the Davidians pouring fuel all over the place or the FBIs gas canisters setting it off.

cbr said:

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Wheatables02 said:

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Hate to derail this again but must chime in -

The only innocents in that building were the children who were brought into that mess. Any adult who allowed the sexual assault of the children by commission or omission is a criminal without a doubt.

Some of the children were found dead from blunt head wounds and stab wounds. I am not sure if this was to ease their death as the fire spread or for other reasons.

Koresh delayed his surrender. All he had to do was surrender and everyone else would have been left alone.

Some of his followers killed 4 FEDERAL AGENTS. No one was going to stand down after that even though it went on for almost 50 more days.

I don't recall the weapons and ammunition laws at the time, however if a FEDERAL judge signed a PROBABLE CAUSE search warrant for the location, it is a lawful order. It is possible the Feds were not able to obtain probable cause for the rapes because everyone was uncooperative and barricaded inside. Therefore they attempted to investigate the inside of the structure with another lawful order.

No Federal Agent intentionally burned that building down. It is possible they were using "Hot gas" which is tear gas that when deployed can start fires if landing in an area that can burn. I believe all agencies were using "hot gas" back then as an improved version had not yet been developed. I still believe they set the fires from inside as they predicted it to be the end of the world. I do not think with all the agencies involved that there is a cover up with the fires.

Flame away.

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My friend was one of those four dead agents. He deserved to die for what he participated in. He died a villain. His Leo buddies broke numerous laws, lied, cheated, stole and covered up numerous facts related to the event, and that pattern has become way too common in that community. Your viewpoint can only be defended if you are an Orwellian socialist authoritarian that hates everything this country stands for. How's that for a flame. Of truth.

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I've never been called a socialist before so thanks for that. I believe in a laissez faire government but I also believe that laws should be enforced and that US and District Attorneys should then look at the law vs. the spirit of the law and handle cases accordingly. Law enforcement should enforce the laws.

I'm just curious how you claim to know he broke laws, lied, stole, and cheated when he was dead. I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that all of these agents were corrupt. I hope you can see that when someone at the top makes a bad decision, a lot of people pay for it because they followed orders.

I am all for bringing dirty cops to the light and punishing them, however the FBI would have and still will throw the ATF under the bus in a heartbeat. I cannot believe that a cover up would not have been unearthed by now if the fix was on. You are entitled to your own opinions, as different as they might be from mine. I am sorry that you lost your friend.

Anyone else feel like an hour of this show is 25mins of commercials?

The first half of the show, they have like 2 60 sec breaks, then the second half is a ton of commercials.

Cstrickland05 said:

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The first half of the show, they have like 2 60 sec breaks, then the second half is a ton of commercials.

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This

I find myself looking down and thinking 'Oh man it's only 930. They still got 30 mins to go' then when I see the commercial for the online documentary I'm thinking 'WTF this is almost over?'

They do have some similarities.

What is Enilio up to these days? Last I saw, he spent time farming or something nature-centric like that?

k20dub said:

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80s Guy said:

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Am I just crazy or is the actor that plays Tibs a young version of Emilio Estevez?

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Macaulay Culkin's younger brother.

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Are you sh*tting me?

He's not! I just looked it up to check. Wow!

I thought he looked familiar after the first episode. IMDB'd it and found out who he was. Crazy

Wheatables02 said:

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I'm just curious how you claim to know he broke laws, lied, stole, and cheated when he was dead. I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that all of these agents were corrupt. I hope you can see that when someone at the top makes a bad decision, a lot of people pay for it because they followed orders.

I am all for bringing dirty cops to the light and punishing them, however the FBI would have and still will throw the ATF under the bus in a heartbeat. I cannot believe that a cover up would not have been unearthed by now if the fix was on. You are entitled to your own opinions, as different as they might be from mine. I am sorry that you lost your friend.

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Thanks. Steve was a good guy. He was not corrupt. But he was there for the action and he knew what he was doing was wrong. But like most evil done, he was just 'following orders. ' and 'part of the culture'

But many, many other officers after steve died have been proven to do exactly what I said. Lie. Cheat. Steal. Coverup. Murder. Knowingly sham an illegal raid.

You CANT have government running loose like that.

Ag_07 said:

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A - Y'all didn't see the resemblance?

B - Y'all don't watch the opening credits?

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The resemblance to Emilio, yes.

Opening credits, nope

Ag_07 said:

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A - Y'all didn't see the resemblance?

B - Y'all don't watch the opening credits?

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A) the show is good enough I never got sidetracked enough to think that

B) guess I never saw the names that well, kind of know the imagery of the credits though

k20dub said:

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I thought he looked familiar after the first episode. IMDB'd it and found out who he was. Crazy

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I saw him in a film called Weiner Dog and picked him out about two weeks before Waco premiered.

(Avoid that film.)

He was also Mel Gibson's son in "Signs."

Feel old now?

GiveEmHellBill said:

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He was also Mel Gibson's son in "Signs."

Feel old now?

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I always figured his asfixiation was from time at the Neverland Ranch

Man TexAgs is weird sometimes

I'd always know about the psychological tactics like the lights and loud speakers, but until I saw it on screen I dont think it ever really registered how torturous it could be. What a horrible event in all regards

Just watched ep 5.

Did Koresh (or anybody else) sing or play music as depicted?

I don't remember that happening at all.

roveram said:

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Just watched ep 5.

Did Koresh (or anybody else) sing or play music as depicted?

I don't remember that happening at all.

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I was wondering about that too. Haven't been able to find anything about that.