Really enjoyed it, but would have like to hear some perspective from the Pistons players, at least more than 45 seconds from Ben Wallace. Certainly could have been an hour longer in my opinion.

Frok said:

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I watched it and thought it was really good. I remember thinking the players got what they deserved. After watching that my view of the event is a little different now.

I also had no idea the Palace at Auburn Hills was no more.

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It was a giant empty lot when I drove by a couple years ago. It's really out in the middle of nowhere. Perfect example of why it's a terrible idea. There's a good old school steak house near there though. Leli's. You know, if you're ever in a rural/industrial area outside Detroit.

jackie childs said:

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finally, i always thought ben wallace got off way too light in the whole ordeal.

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Agree completely. For some reason, including up to this day and documentary he continues to get a pass. Without his crybaby antics that lasted seemingly forever in real time, no drink would ever have been thrown.

But the players on both teams seem to not bring it up so I guess it's a fan perspective vs the guys on the court.

Bunk Moreland said:

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jackie childs said:

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finally, i always thought ben wallace got off way too light in the whole ordeal.

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Agree completely. For some reason, including up to this day and documentary he continues to get a pass. Without his crybaby antics that lasted seemingly forever in real time, no drink would ever have been thrown.

But the players on both teams seem to not bring it up so I guess it's a fan perspective vs the guys on the court.

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It was kind of addressed in the doc. Basketball players for the most part don't really want to fight* - they just want to press up and act like they want to fight. Such was the same for Wallace in that moment. Absent the cup being thrown, it would have been just another pushing incident no one really remembered. So you're basically right in that it's a fan perspective v. guys on the court.

* Basketball was my sport growing up and can cosign this statement. I actually had one big exception in HS the year before the malice. We had a road game and a pushing match started on the court between players . . . then a fight broke out in the stands between fans (it was actually a fan and a player's mom). Then all hell broke loose and the fight extended from court to the stands with players in the stands and fans on the court. Game called off, extra police sent in, everything. It was a baby malice at the palace. Luckily no one was seriously hurt so I'm allowed to say this: one of the most fun games I played in while in HS

I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

I fully understand the heated passion of basketball games on the court like you mentioned, and even if Wallace wasn't going to actually fight...there's no doubt his lengthy antics and throwing the wrist/headbands fueled what finally became fans taking part in the throwing of stuff at Artest as well.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

I fully understand the heated passion of basketball games on the court like you mentioned, and even if Wallace wasn't going to actually fight...there's no doubt his lengthy antics and throwing the wrist/headbands fueled what finally became fans taking part in the throwing of stuff at Artest as well.

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The most famous one nearly killed Rudy T and the NBA quickly realized nobody wants these guys fighting.

superunknown said:

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Frok said:

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I watched it and thought it was really good. I remember thinking the players got what they deserved. After watching that my view of the event is a little different now.

I also had no idea the Palace at Auburn Hills was no more.

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It was a giant empty lot when I drove by a couple years ago. It's really out in the middle of nowhere. Perfect example of why it's a terrible idea. There's a good old school steak house near there though. Leli's. You know, if you're ever in a rural/industrial area outside Detroit.

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Suburban stadiums/arenas rarely work out long term granted 30 years is better than I would have expected. It may have helped that the Pistons had been playing in nearby Pontiac for a decade.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

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I've said this for many years. The easiest way to stop "fighting" in sports is to treat it the same way hockey does. Guys in other sports will throw a punch (or act like they want to) because they know it will be broken up immediately. If they knew the officials would let them square up one on one and throw fists all this nonsense would stop.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

I fully understand the heated passion of basketball games on the court like you mentioned, and even if Wallace wasn't going to actually fight...there's no doubt his lengthy antics and throwing the wrist/headbands fueled what finally became fans taking part in the throwing of stuff at Artest as well.

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Oh I'm with you generally. I was primarily addressing the last point in your post re: why the players don't really bring it up.

Know Your Enemy said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

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I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

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I've said this for many years. The easiest way to stop "fighting" in sports is to treat it the same way hockey does. Guys in other sports will throw a punch (or act like they want to) because they know it will be broken up immediately. If they knew the officials would let them square up one on one and throw fists all this nonsense would stop.

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When you say "hockey" you really mean the NHL. Globally hockey isn't played where there are untalented players on each roster and their only job is to fight. Hell, even the NHL is moving away from it. No pro sports franchise wants their star players missing a bunch of games from preventable extra curricular activities, be it fighting or off season hoops or motorcycles. It's bad for business.

mic suede said:

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Know Your Enemy said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

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I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

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I've said this for many years. The easiest way to stop "fighting" in sports is to treat it the same way hockey does. Guys in other sports will throw a punch (or act like they want to) because they know it will be broken up immediately. If they knew the officials would let them square up one on one and throw fists all this nonsense would stop.

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When you say "hockey" you really mean the NHL. Globally hockey isn't played where there are untalented players on each roster and their only job is to fight. Hell, even the NHL is moving away from it. No pro sports franchise wants their star players missing a bunch of games from preventable extra curricular activities, be it fighting or off season hoops or motorcycles. It's bad for business.

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And the NHL/refs shut fights down once playoffs start

cajunaggie08 said:

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mic suede said:

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Know Your Enemy said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

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I know they quickly addressed that aspect, but it's also bull***** We've seen NBA players throw punches countless times.

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I've said this for many years. The easiest way to stop "fighting" in sports is to treat it the same way hockey does. Guys in other sports will throw a punch (or act like they want to) because they know it will be broken up immediately. If they knew the officials would let them square up one on one and throw fists all this nonsense would stop.

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When you say "hockey" you really mean the NHL. Globally hockey isn't played where there are untalented players on each roster and their only job is to fight. Hell, even the NHL is moving away from it. No pro sports franchise wants their star players missing a bunch of games from preventable extra curricular activities, be it fighting or off season hoops or motorcycles. It's bad for business.

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And the NHL/refs shut fights down once playoffs start

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Tell me you don't watch hockey without telling me you don't watch hockey.

I havent watched it as often as I used to, but I remember fights being pretty rare in the playoffs and seeing the refs jump in to break up fights where they could

cajunaggie08 said:

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I havent watched it as often as I used to, but I remember fights being pretty rare in the playoffs and seeing the refs jump in to break up fights where they could

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Fights are less common in the playoffs because the players can see the bigger picture. It has nothing to do with the officials breaking things up sooner than they do in the regular season.

mic suede said:

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Nobody watches hockey, ace.

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ZOMG LOLZ EWE R SEW FUN-E

Truth hurts. Women's college softball draws similar ratings.

mic suede said:

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Truth hurts. Women's college softball draws similar ratings.

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I couldn't really give two ****s what some random **** on TexAgs thinks about hockey.

But for the sake of being factual, here you go.

The WCWS also came out on top when comparing the two tournament's most-watched games, beating out the College World Series 2.1 million viewers to 1.7 million viewers.

The final NHL Stanley Cup game on NBC attracts 3.6 million viewers

So the final of the Stanley Cup on a drew less viewers (3.5mm) than the 2nd round NBA playoff games and less than half the viewers of the NFL preseason kickoff? Ouch.

Now pull up average regular season ratings and the draw is similar to regular season women's softball. Double ouch.

The NHL tv deal is well under half the MLB deal and 1/10th of the NFL deal. Ouch again.

But hey, the fights. Oh, boxing actually draws similar/better than Hockey. Well darn.

Show me where I said it got similar ratings to any other men's sport.

superunknown said:

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Frok said:

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I watched it and thought it was really good. I remember thinking the players got what they deserved. After watching that my view of the event is a little different now.

I also had no idea the Palace at Auburn Hills was no more.

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It was a giant empty lot when I drove by a couple years ago. It's really out in the middle of nowhere. Perfect example of why it's a terrible idea. There's a good old school steak house near there though. Leli's. You know, if you're ever in a rural/industrial area outside Detroit.

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Labor Day weekend of 2016 I went to Detroit and saw the Palace of Auburn Hills when it was still standing.

I've never seen an NBA team play that far out in the suburbs. The Pistons have since moved back to downtown Detroit.

If POAH was located in Houston or Dallas it would be like having a huge basketball arena in Frisco, or The Woodlands. The late Pontiac Silverdome was also near the Palace of Auburn Hills.

Bunk Moreland said:

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jackie childs said:

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finally, i always thought ben wallace got off way too light in the whole ordeal.

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Agree completely. For some reason, including up to this day and documentary he continues to get a pass. Without his crybaby antics that lasted seemingly forever in real time, no drink would ever have been thrown.

But the players on both teams seem to not bring it up so I guess it's a fan perspective vs the guys on the court.

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Ben Wallace gets a pass because he stood up and intimidated the biggest bully in the NBA: Ron Artest.

Did Ron Artest want that smoke with Ben Wallace? Of course not.

Like a classic bully coward he ran when confronted by someone his size.... but ran after a white guy half his size when he was sure he could win the fight.

The basketball game was over. Ron Arterst foul was was past the line of scrimmage for the score, and time remaining in the contest.

If A&M was losing 41-17 and there was less than a minute left in the game, and out of nowhere someone put a huge hit on the back up QB( or a defenseless receiver) all the players on the field would be ready to fight.

Equating Ben Wallace with a backup QB or defenseless receiver is also odd

Whos Juan said:

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Equating Ben Wallace with a backup QB or defenseless receiver is also odd

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He gets inducted into the Hall of Fame 8 days. LMAO!

Maybe if that back-up QB was the Candyman or the defenseless receiver was the T-1000.

mic suede said:

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It's a weird rewrite of history to call Ron Artest some big NBA bully.

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I honestly can't tell if you all are being facetious or serious.

Ron Artest is a classic bully. Runs from Bens Wallace, but is more than willing to hit JJ Barea in the face when his team is getting its ass kicked.

Ron Artest has had some serious mental health issues.

17 years ago today: “Malice at the Palace” pic.twitter.com/qIjzlkd10j

— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) November 19, 2021