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The Mary Saints of Newark....

13,139 Views | 116 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by jbanda
cr06gis
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I dont really have a lot to add but that first hour was as boring as it gets. The ending was kinda fun, but overall, count me in the group that was expecting a better movie. Disappointed
azul_rain
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My expectations were too high, besides the new bond film this is what i was looking forward to the most. The sopranos may be the better tv series but breaking bad had the better spinoff movie
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
Four Seasons Landscaping
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Turned it off at the baby Christopher crying and "other side" comment. Too cheesy.
azul_rain
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You missed the best parts
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
Teddy Perkins
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Found this video on YouTube with a few of the references found to The Sopranos.

azul_rain
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They got too cute IMO
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
cr06gis
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How much this sucked has stuck with me for 3 days. The Sopranos was unapologetically gritty and somewhat realistic(ish). This waste of 2 hours was soft and condescending to Sopranos fans.

The young version of the crew were all terrible caricatures.

-How the hell is Sal a decision making 30 yr old when on the show he is maybe a couple years older than Tony?
-Why is Paulie a 20 year old goofball when on the show Tony expressed how scared he was of him when he was a kid? Paulie was supposed to be an enforcer the same age as Johnny Soprano.
-The needless shoehorning in of Carmela, Big *****, etc was pathetic

A black guy that miraculously is allowed to just walk in the back of the pork shop without worry...who happens to be buds with boss. Get the eff outta here. The tolerance of those guineas in the 1960s compared to the early 2000s is hilarious. If they wanted to make a movie about the blacks in Newark back then, it seems like there are plenty of interesting directions to go. But don't inject 40 minutes of this pandering "whitey on the moon" filler into a fcking Sopranos movie.

They had so many storylines to pick from to make this great (ie. Tony and Jackie robbing of the card game, the mentorship of Tony by Dickie, etc.). The storylines were already there! The writers had 6 seasons of cheat sheets. Instead, they vomit up this crap. For fck sake, Tony always talked about how huge of a mentor Dickie was, but yet for whatever reason there are maybe 12 words exchanged between the two in the movie before Dickie gets killed.

What was main point of this movie? Revealing that Junior ordered the killing of Dickie? Dickie's death doesn't benefit Junior in any real capacity as we know from the show. What a lazy climax.





PatAg
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Four Seasons Landscaping said:

Turned it off at the baby Christopher crying and "other side" comment. Too cheesy.
I strongly considered turning it off at that point as well. That is just such horrible writing to include that scene.
Swarely
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Eh, I'm not sure. The cop did say "I'm sorry" right before Christopher shot him.

Also, I can't imagine Tony letting uncle Jun hang around as long as he did if he had known the truth.
azul_rain
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Junior was basically the most insecure person on the show, insecure to dicky, to Johnny, to women, to Tony.
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
PatAg
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Overall, I enjoyed it. It wasn't quite up to par with the Series, but I do want to see the next 5-10 years of Tony's life in another movie if possible.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Swarely said:

Eh, I'm not sure. The cop did say "I'm sorry" right before Christopher shot him.

Also, I can't imagine Tony letting uncle Jun hang around as long as he did if he had known the truth.

I'm not suggesting Tony knew the truth.

I'm suggesting Tony made up a story just to get rid of a crooked ex cop who was a liability once retired (no control over him any more and he isn't beholden to the mob). But he used a story to manipulate Christopher that was plausible as Dickie had gouged out an eye of Jilly Ruffalo over the killing of his former cellmate and retribution was entirely plausible.

There is also debate about whether the cop said I'm Sorry or it was on the TV program (Magnum PI) in the background.

Bunk Moreland
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Seems a lot of people wanted a pure prequel to the sopranos serving their own personal interests even though it's been said for months this wasn't going to be the case.

I enjoyed it. Was it an Oscar standalone movie? Of course not. But it was a new story in a sopranos world and it was able to stand alone. The Sopranos was Tony's story in his time. This was a different story in a different time.

There's no need to get too close to the show that you end up messing with its legacy imo. I was fine with what we got.
azul_rain
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Agreed
you may all go to hell and i will go to Texas
Kellso
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Swarely said:

I feel robbed not getting to see tony and Jackie rob the card game.

This movie was fan service and not great for sure; but it was like a sip of cool water to a dehydrated swarely.
Thank You!

I just realized what I couldn't stand about the movie. I also thought the movie would tie up the plot of the retired cop that Tony has Chris kill.

Both of those plot holes seem like huge misses.

Huge Sopranos fan. I thought the movie was average at best, and nowhere near as good as the Breaking Bad movie.
Bunk Moreland
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All due respect, "i didn't get the call back i was hoping to see" isn't a plot hole.
Zombie Jon Snow
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And the cop Tony has Chris kill was resolved.

It was a lie and he just manipulated Chris.

Because he said Dickie was killed by a dirty cop that Jilly Ruffalo hired in a vendetta against Dickie. And we know it was Junior that hired the hit.

Doubtful it is even the same cop. There is no way Tony knows it was junior and just let that slide all these years and it's unlikely the cop fingered Jilly just to protect junior. IMHO

So tony lied and manipulated Chris just to test his loyalty and also likely get rid of a retiring cop that was no use any more and likely was a dirty cop for the mob. Just not the one that junior hired.
Kellso
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Bunk Moreland said:

All due respect, "i didn't get the call back i was hoping to see" isn't a plot hole.
Whatever man.....am I entitled to my opinion?

I thought the movie was average at best. It had the potential to be much better, but about halfway during the movie it just fell flat.

I thought the Uncle Junior and Dickie story line was interesting, but large portions of the movie drag along and seem pointless.
Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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I can agree that it wasn't all that I hoped for, but it did feel good to me to live in that world for a little bit again. I'm a sucker for mob stuff. I'll happily watch average and above mob movies. I'm a sucker for them.
Bunk Moreland
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Of course you are. Your other points are fair. But what you initially said wasn't a plot hole.
Corporal Punishment
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The dialogue was boring.
PatAg
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I think the movie would have benefited from just telling Dickie's story specifically.
mm98
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It was meh. Enjoyable parts. 2 hours isn't enough time to do it right. Hardest part for me to accepts was the unexplainable age differences between the crew over 40 years.

But I did laugh out loud at the "varsity athlete"comment.
rynning
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Just watched it tonight before reading this thread. Agree with most here. The story should have been able to stand on it's own without Sopranos. There was plenty of material, but it didn't.

I did like the scene with Tony talking to his school counselor, very reminiscent of future sessions with Melfi. That was much more subtle than baby Christopher crying at Tony. At least the "get used to those bars" baby in Back to the Future was supposed to be funny.
aTmAg
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I watched Sopranos about 10 years ago, and started a rewatch recently but my wife got bored about halfway through season 1. From what I did see, I realize that I had forgotten a lot of stuff. Am I going to be lost in this movie?
TCTTS
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I saw seasons one and two of The Sopranos on DVD in the early '00s, watched the final two seasons as they aired, and caught enough episodes in between to get the gist, but haven't revisited any of it since.

That said, I'm 20 minutes into the movie and could not be more bored or have any less of an idea as to what this is about. I get who the muppet baby versions of these characters are, but man, this is just flat out uninteresting - borderline bad, even - as a stand-alone entry, nearly 15 years later.
TCTTS
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Reluctantly stuck with it, and now I wish I hadn't.

It tried to have it both ways, by making its central character both Tony and Dickie, yet ended up failing each for that very reason. Often it felt like Dickie's movie, but then for pockets and stretches it turned its focus to Tony, when it needed to commit fully to one or the other as its lead. This being a Sopranos movie, the choice was obvious. From the jump it should have been told through the eyes of Tony; a coming-of-age/loss-of-innocence story in which Tony gets swept up in his uncle's world, with a tragic-yet-cataslystic ending.

It could have told nearly the exact same story, and we could have met and seen all the same characters, except with Dickie relegated to the mentor character only; the Obi-Wan of the mob world to Tony's Luke Skywalker. Lose all the stuff from '67 with Tony in junior high or whatever, start it with Michael Gandolfini's Tony in '71, and lean more heavily on the stuck-between-two-worlds aspect; Tony can either choose the right path and pursue college, football, etc - or - follow the uncle he loves into a life of crime.

I don't know how much the events of the movie were referenced as canon in-show back in the day - I'm sure this probably contradicts established history in that regard - but the "easiest" fix would have been to have Tony's father not want his son to join the mob. To have his father of course be wrapped up in that world, but someone who recognizes its flaws and ultimately wants better for his son. He's already in too deep, though, gets arrested on some job, and it's during that crucial time in Tony's life (again, assuming Tony's father goes to jail in the '70s, when Tony's in high school) that Dickie then steps in to help raise Tony, Tony becomes tempted by and shows an affinity for the "family business," etc. Something along those lines.

The other maddening thing was that it had "the one" syndrome where a central character is referenced multiple times as being a great leader or showing off-the-charts potential or whatever - a la Harry Potter or Neo or any number of "prophesied" cinematic saviors - yet we never SEE that potential or greatness from the character on screen. The way both the guidance counselor and young Silvio talk about Tony being this great/smart leader felt so fan-servicy and unearned, considering not a hint of that is on screen. Yet, in a Tony/Michael Gandolfini-centric version of the movie we could have explored those traits, seen them developed, realized, etc.

I don't know... parts of it were interesting, I guess, but overall it was just a big bag of meh that never quite gelled for me. Which sucks, because it had all the ingredients to be so much better.
aTmAg
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I haven't watched it yet, but it's looks like this show reaffirms my stance that David Chase is overrated.
TCTTS
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Also, the more I think about it, what was the point even of the Harold side of the story? Not only did he turn on Dickie for seemingly no reason (or, rather, the dumbest of reasons), that entire storyline went absolutely no where and served no purpose, other than to have him sleep with Giuseppina (which could have been any rival gangster). Was its sole existence to act as some big fake-out surprise to setup the Junior-did-it reveal? If so... sheesh. Otherwise, it had a real Denzel/American Gangster vibe that I thought was *surely* building to some big, consequential confrontation, then... *fart noise*... nope! It was Junior all along!

GreasenUSA
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TCTTS said:

Also, the more I think about it, what was the point even of the Harold side of the story?
The only way I found myself able to rationalize including that story in the movie is to think that it's setting up a spin-off.
jbanda
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Just watched it. It's in the same category as the recent Star Wars sequels (7-9). Giant misstep with a few good things sprinkled in.

Pros -

Alessandro Nivola, Vera F. and the girl they had playing Janice were spot on. Great casting and acting.

I actually liked the Michael Imperioli narration. I got chills from the "that's the guy I went to hell for," not for anything that happened in this movie, but as a reflection on the series.

The way the Gandolfini son did the head tilt before he beat that guy up. Very reminiscent of his father.

And now the cons -

The race riot subplot/Harold as an antagonist to Dickie had zero bearing on the story at all. It's like they just wanted to include the race politics subplot because of 2020. If you want to make a movie about the race riots in Newark in '67, just make that movie.

Silvio/Paulie were essentially cartoon characters. Didn't like that at all.

I couldn't tell Dickie's goomar/step mom and his wife apart.

How does Tony not know Uncle Jun was responsible for his mentors death? Doesn't make sense.

It was just boring.

Overall, giant misstep.

Just my 2 cents.
Zombie Jon Snow
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jbanda said:



The race riot subplot/Harold as an antagonist to Dickie had zero bearing on the story at all. It's like they just wanted to include the race politics subplot because of 2020. If you want to make a movie about the race riots in Newark in '67, just make that movie.



How does Tony not know Uncle Jun was responsible for his mentors death? Doesn't make sense.



Agree mostly - but the thing about the race riots is it was already part of the story it had been mentioned many times in The Sopranos so you could not just ignore it and it was during that era. But there was some element or feeling that it was a bit manipulated for 2020+ maybe even just so they could have a diverse cast which is a big thing these days.

On Tony and Jun ordering the hit on Dickie - how would Tony know if nobody ever slipped. If only Junior and the cop know and never say anything it could easily be kept under wraps.
jbanda
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I accept that, but they really didn't even need the '67 part. Like some have said earlier in the thread, just focus on the 70's part with the HS Tony and Dickie relationship.

I wanted a "Rogue One" and got a "Prequel Trilogy."
Zombie Jon Snow
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jbanda said:

I accept that, but they really didn't even need the '67 part. Like some have said earlier in the thread, just focus on the 70's part with the HS Tony and Dickie relationship.

I wanted a "Rogue One" and got a "Prequel Trilogy."

yeah sounds like that may be likely now - Chase has signed a deal with HBO.

And keep in mind Michael Gandolfini was just 19 when this was cast and filmed. I think that had some to do with making the story be in that period when he was 16-17 and not 23+ i mean it doesn't sound like a stretch but he looked young to me really.

He is 22 now so he can more easily do that time period when Tony was made and robbed the card game, etc.

Just look at pics of him now 3 years later looks a lot more mature.

aTmAg
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Review by real life former mobster, Michael Franzese (hint: he thinks it's the worst movie ever)


 
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