I don't think the women are suddenly coming forward, sounds more like a paper suddenly decided to make it newsworthy.

If that same drugged out person killed someone, but we didn't find out until 15 years later, should they still pay a price?

I find this defense of Brand really weird. This guy is a real piece of work, to say the least.

cc10106 said:

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But why all of a sudden? Who has Brand pissed off?

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Prob the same people Rogan pissed off so much that they lied about him and smeared him constantly, and tried to get him cancelled as a "racist".

Macarthur said:

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I find this defense of Brand really weird. This guy is a real piece of work, to say the least.

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I just don't believe most accusations nowadays honestly. I KNOW that he used to be a drug fueled sex addicted POS. He has admitted to this.

In a world where CNN alters Joe Rogan to make him look green, the FBI colludes with tech and media companies to influence an election, weaponized federal agencies collude to bring down a president with a fake "Russia Collusion" hoax, Kavanaugh has politically driven sexual assault and beer drinking charges levied against him, and countless racial and sexual hoaxes and hit jobs have been perpetrated, I just refuse to blindly trust anyone when it comes to this stuff. Oh yeah, can't forget Clarence Thomas facing worse than Kavanaugh did.

He may very well have done everything he's accused of. If so, I hope he faces justice.

But there is grey area when it comes to rape and sexual misconduct. And there are probably times when women wake up after crazy drunken sex and deeply regret it and are horrified. And then there are all too often straight up hit-job hoaxes.

I will amend my statute of limitations statement up above...if he truly raped or sexually assaulted these women, he needs to be punished accordingly, even 10-15 years later.

Dimebag Darrell said:

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Macarthur said:

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I find this defense of Brand really weird. This guy is a real piece of work, to say the least.

---

I just don't believe most accusations nowadays honestly. I KNOW that he used to be a drug fueled sex addicted POS. He has admitted to this.

In a world where CNN alters Joe Rogan to make him look green, the FBI colludes with tech and media companies to influence an election, weaponized federal agencies collude to bring down a president with a fake "Russia Collusion" hoax, Kavanaugh has politically driven sexual assault and beer drinking charges levied against him, and countless racial and sexual hoaxes and hit jobs have been perpetrated, I just refuse to blindly trust anyone when it comes to this stuff. Oh yeah, can't forget Clarence Thomas facing worse than Kavanaugh did.

He may very well have done everything he's accused of. If so, I hope he faces justice.

But there is grey area when it comes to rape and sexual misconduct. And there are probably times when women wake up after crazy drunken sex and deeply regret it and are horrified. And then there are all too often straight up hit-job hoaxes.

I will amend my statute of limitations statement up above...if he truly raped or sexually assaulted these women, he needs to be punished accordingly, even 10-15 years later.

---

I think this is a strange narrative and point of fixation. Hard numbers are difficult to pin down, but it's been widely accepted that false reports of rape are somewhere around 5% of reported cases. And when you consider that some estimates are that as much as 60% of sexual assaults go completely UNREPORTED, I think the fixation should be on the the victims of sexual assault and not the very small % of false claims. Those women should be punished harshly but to focus on the incredibly small number of men's lives that have been affected by this when compared to the overwhleming number of women and their families whose lives have been forever altered is incredibly misguided.

Dimebag Darrell said:

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cc10106 said:

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But why all of a sudden? Who has Brand pissed off?

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Prob the same people Rogan pissed off so much that they lied about him and smeared him constantly, and tried to get him cancelled as a "racist".

---

You consider Bill Cosby to be in the same category as Brand and Rogan?

Cosby had little-to-no defenders on this board when people came out of the woodworks to accuse him of things that happened so long ago that few of us were alive.

Dimebag Darrell said:

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Danger Mouse said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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cc10106 said:

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But why all of a sudden? Who has Brand pissed off?

---

Prob the same people Rogan pissed off so much that they lied about him and smeared him constantly, and tried to get him cancelled as a "racist".

---

You consider Bill Cosby to be in the same category as Brand and Rogan?

Cosby had little-to-no defenders on this board when people came out of the woodworks to accuse him of things that happened so long ago that few of us were alive.

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I don't recall. I will be completely honest and admit that I did not believe that one at first. Then I didn't want to believe it. Then I was disgusted by it because he was someone I loved from childhood and I always thought he was a good decent family man.

I am not trying to make the argument that everyone accused of rape is the victim of smear campaign or hoax. I have just witnessed enough outright hoaxes and accusations in the past handful of years to wait and see how things play out. I have a feeling the Brand stuff is coordinated and politically driven, like the stuff against Rogan was...I could be wrong.

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Which ones exactly?

Jesus. Half of y'all came here thinking this was F16

Macarthur said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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Macarthur said:

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I find this defense of Brand really weird. This guy is a real piece of work, to say the least.

---

I just don't believe most accusations nowadays honestly. I KNOW that he used to be a drug fueled sex addicted POS. He has admitted to this.

In a world where CNN alters Joe Rogan to make him look green, the FBI colludes with tech and media companies to influence an election, weaponized federal agencies collude to bring down a president with a fake "Russia Collusion" hoax, Kavanaugh has politically driven sexual assault and beer drinking charges levied against him, and countless racial and sexual hoaxes and hit jobs have been perpetrated, I just refuse to blindly trust anyone when it comes to this stuff. Oh yeah, can't forget Clarence Thomas facing worse than Kavanaugh did.

He may very well have done everything he's accused of. If so, I hope he faces justice.

But there is grey area when it comes to rape and sexual misconduct. And there are probably times when women wake up after crazy drunken sex and deeply regret it and are horrified. And then there are all too often straight up hit-job hoaxes.

I will amend my statute of limitations statement up above...if he truly raped or sexually assaulted these women, he needs to be punished accordingly, even 10-15 years later.

---

I think this is a strange narrative and point of fixation. Hard numbers are difficult to pin down, but it's been widely accepted that false reports of rape are somewhere around 5% of reported cases. And when you consider that some estimates are that as much as 60% of sexual assaults go completely UNREPORTED, I think the fixation should be on the the victims of sexual assault and not the very small % of false claims. Those women should be punished harshly but to focus on the incredibly small number of men's lives that have been affected by this when compared to the overwhleming number of women and their families whose lives have been forever altered is incredibly misguided.

---

Even in high profile cases decades after the fact? i.e. Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas type cases? Haven't numerous athletes been exonerated after such false claims too?

Point being, you are citing overall statistics...i think false allegations against high profile, rich people are probably very likely significantly greater than those waged against your avg joe college kid etc.

And I am not at all downplaying sexual assault or the problem that it is or what it can do to women. I have a daughter that I would kill for. I also have a wife that was sexually assaulted (drugged and fondled to be exact) prior to us dating. The gravity of sexual assault is for another thread.

This one is about women coming after a high profile famous man with allegations 10-15 years later...in such circumstances, it seems like false or exaggerated claims are more common. Go ahead and automatically condemn him as guilty, just like you probably did Kavanaugh.

I have gone from "believe all women" to "some women lie, so wait and see".

No one should be defending Russell Brand right now.

No one should be outright claiming that Russell Brand is guilty right now except for his possible victims and their friends/family.

Megyn Kelly did an amazing job touching on this.

Just because you may feel that the MeToo… pic.twitter.com/ud1ZzWjxk5

— Ed Krassenstein (@EdKrassen) September 19, 2023

You keep saying you think and most likely. I'm really not interested in dealing w those comments. Is there some real data we can look at?

And I have no ability to convict or condemn anyone. And let's be very clear, the court of public opinion does not require the same thing that an actual court of law does.

And you made it pretty clear by your comments that you think this is political. I do not.

Macarthur said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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Danger Mouse said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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cc10106 said:

---

But why all of a sudden? Who has Brand pissed off?

---

Prob the same people Rogan pissed off so much that they lied about him and smeared him constantly, and tried to get him cancelled as a "racist".

---

You consider Bill Cosby to be in the same category as Brand and Rogan?

Cosby had little-to-no defenders on this board when people came out of the woodworks to accuse him of things that happened so long ago that few of us were alive.

---

I don't recall. I will be completely honest and admit that I did not believe that one at first. Then I didn't want to believe it. Then I was disgusted by it because he was someone I loved from childhood and I always thought he was a good decent family man.

I am not trying to make the argument that everyone accused of rape is the victim of smear campaign or hoax. I have just witnessed enough outright hoaxes and accusations in the past handful of years to wait and see how things play out. I have a feeling the Brand stuff is coordinated and politically driven, like the stuff against Rogan was...I could be wrong.

---

Which ones exactly?

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Nascar "noose", Juicy Smollet, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Rogan, Trump Russia Collusion, fake racist windshield note at A&M, I know a guy who is rich and was falsely accused but had his reputation almost damaged forever, Jeremy Piven, Michael Fassbender, a couple high profile fake Ivy league "rape" incidents, David Ebanks (nba player), Julian Edelman (nfl player) I seem to recall?...and more that just don't come to mind.

There are tons of stories of nooses and swastikas and racist statements being placed or planted by non-whites on an almost weekly basis. It is not unheard of for women to wake up with remorse or regret or disgust and go after the dude they slept with.

I just don't really trust anything until it is proven.

Macarthur said:

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You keep saying you think and most likely. I'm really not interested in dealing w those comments. Is there some real data we can look at?

And I have no ability to convict or condemn anyone. And let's be very clear, the court of public opinion does not require the same thing that an actual court of law does.

And you made it pretty clear by your comments that you think this is political. I do not.

---

We will never agree, we never were going to. G'day

I will judge him accordingly when charged and convicted. Just find the timing of these things often suspect. I will also acknowledge that in some of these cases, I could see the suffering victims trying to be the bigger person and just forgive and forget...struggling in life all along the way...only to see their predator gain fame and fortune and exposure, and being compelled to enact justice against them esp considering they just won't go away. There are a lot of possibilities.

good grief...

I don't think we should believe all women. I think we should take all allegations seriously until it is time to not take them seriously, which is a very fact-intensive standard. That could be as soon as the allegation is made, i.e., "the ghost of Marlon Brando assaulted me on a space ship in 2020", or it could be never in the case of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt.

Claude! said:

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I don't think we should believe all women. I think we should take all allegations seriously until it is time to not take them seriously, which is a very fact-intensive standard. That could be as soon as the allegation is made, i.e., "the ghost of Marlon Brando assaulted me on a space ship in 2020", or it could be never in the case of a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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Nascar "noose", Juicy Smollet, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Rogan, Trump Russia Collusion, fake racist windshield note at A&M, I know a guy who is rich and was falsely accused but had his reputation almost damaged forever, Jeremy Piven, Michael Fassbender, a couple high profile fake Ivy league "rape" incidents, David Ebanks (nba player), Julian Edelman (nfl player) I seem to recall?...and more that just don't come to mind.

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You've written like 80% of an updated "We Didn't Start the Fire" here.

The Porkchop Express said:

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Dimebag Darrell said:

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Nascar "noose", Juicy Smollet, Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Rogan, Trump Russia Collusion, fake racist windshield note at A&M, I know a guy who is rich and was falsely accused but had his reputation almost damaged forever, Jeremy Piven, Michael Fassbender, a couple high profile fake Ivy league "rape" incidents, David Ebanks (nba player), Julian Edelman (nfl player) I seem to recall?...and more that just don't come to mind.

---

You've written like 80% of an updated "We Didn't Start the Fire" here.

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Rogan, Thomas, Kavanaugh

I can't take it anymore

TCTTS said:

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No one should be defending Russell Brand right now.

No one should be outright claiming that Russell Brand is guilty right now except for his possible victims and their friends/family.

Megyn Kelly did an amazing job touching on this.

Just because you may feel that the MeToo… pic.twitter.com/ud1ZzWjxk5

— Ed Krassenstein (@EdKrassen) September 19, 2023

---

i haven't seen such dramatic use of hand gestures while talking since...well, russell brand

I found the love of Brand before weird. Not sure where he came from. Yet libs loved him. I guess he got red pilled or something and is suddenly enemy #3. (Where Elon Musk is #2 and Trump #1.. both of which were loved when they fell politically in line)

Tribalism and identity politics are both rampant these days as people bow down to their political overlords who don't give a **** about them. Cancel culture and the Me Too movement have compounded these things, so people being skeptical initially about stuff like this is understandable.

And again, this points to you not exchanging in good faith. The fact that a woman doesn't report something right away, doesn't mean she or her family condone more rape by the perpetrator.

My second job out of college I was sexually assaulted by a coworker. This was in the early 90's.

The problem was that I didn't recognize it until about 5 years later.

What did he do? He had me in his office, behind a locked door, flirting with me for a bit. Then he reached underneath my blouse and fondled me. I asked him to stop on multiple occasions. He wouldn't. Did I mention that he was also best friends with my boss? I was 21 and new to the industry that I was in. I was also the only female in the building. He was very popular and everyone knew who he was. He then proceeded to reach down and thank God that someone knocked on the door. I worked the rest of the day and avoided him. I was lucky enough to transfer someplace else.

I say I recognized it 5 years later because I thought this is what happened in life at the time. It was the industry I was in at the time. I was indeed the only female in the building at the time. I was a manager at this point and I was in harassment training. We were watching a video about what harassment was and I saw it and I got up and threw up in the bathroom. HR came up to me and asked me what happened. Guess who still worked there? Same guy. Same company. He had left me alone, but many interns had made it through at this point. He was in the training as well since he was the head of a a department. I told HR what happened. They looked at me dead in the face and said, "Well that was a long time ago. Let's hope he isn't like that anymore." He resigned later that week. The funny thing is that he's had multiple jobs with various places since, and many of those places have been sued over and over again for not protecting their female employees for sexual harassment against him.

I am now the mom of a girl and we have very frank conversations about this sex and sexual assault. We talk about how important it is to be honest about what happens with men and boys. We talk about how men won't believe you unless you say something right away because they don't understand trama. Or they don't understand that you sometimes react the way that you do because you are afraid to be ostracized by the industry that you are in because you have seen it happen to others. I am sure to explain to her that as her mom that I love her unconditionally no matter what happens to her, and that I will always be on her side, and that if anything should happen she should come to me and we will tackle it head on. I only hope that it helps her.

Macarthur said:

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And again, this points to you not exchanging in good faith. The fact that a woman doesn't report something right away, doesn't mean she or her family condone more rape by the perpetrator.

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She and her family know that the rapist will almost certainly rape again. Whether they condone it or not is irrelevant. By remaining silent, they are willingly allowing that to happen.

See the post above by Pascal.

Yes. I'm a perfect world rapes are reported immediately.

We're not in a perfect world and just because it wasn't reported doesn't mean it didn't happen.

One thing to add to this is that, based on my understanding, Britain has much stronger defamation laws than we are used to in the US.

What that means, is these charges better be pretty solid or they expose themselves to a major defamation suit from Brand.

Something to keep in mind as this moves forward.

I worked at Compaq for a while where everybody had an office with a lock and key. When working, we almost always had the doors open. When we closed the door, that meant we were on a private phone call or something. We never knocked on each others' doors nor did I ever have my door knocked on. The only reason we would is if there was an emergency. The reason I say all of this, is that I suspect the person who knocked on your door knew something bad was up and knocked to save you. Which means that somebody knew what type of guy he was. That person (or people) should have reported this guy or at least warned you to stay away from him. You were done a huge disservice by him being kept around and you being being left in the dark. Somebody screwed up, and they should be condemned for all of that. You did the right thing in reporting it. I'm sure you regret not doing it earlier.

Another problem is that it is likely your employer did not tell subsequent employers about his history out of fear of getting sued by him. That is a consequence of our sue-happy society. If those subsequent employers had known, they certainly wouldn't have willingly hired that guy and accept getting their asses sued off in sexual harassment lawsuits. My point being is that we need MORE reporting of this sort of thing. Not less. Not only by victims, but by everybody who knows.

I too have taken my daughters aside and have had frank discussions about how to avoid situations (go out with friends, don't leave drinks unattended, etc.) as well as the importance of reporting any assault immediately.