Chalamet, the disappearing son!

PeekingDuck said:

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Chalamet, the disappearing son!

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Chalamet time warps into Casey Affleck.

Also, I've posted this before, but if anyone's curious I've uploaded the original draft of Interstellar that Jonathan Nolan wrote for Steven Spielberg in 2008. While Spielberg apparently heavily collaborated on this draft, he obviously ended up passing, and then, once Chris was done on The Dark Knight Rises, he ended up rewriting Jonathan's draft into the movie we have today.

I've only ever read the first act or so (parts of which I actually like better than the final product), but apparently Chris' second half is a lot better - or is at least way different - than Jonathan's, so it sounds like it was for the better. Still, I keep meaning to read this whole thing, and definitely want to do so before the big re-release this fall...

https://jumpshare.com/s/Dq69Et6rLUikDJpDWUjA

DallasTeleAg said:

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Akshually... it was TARS that was sent into the black hole. CASE went with Dr. Brand.

ETA: keep typing "Mann" when I mean "Brand"

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Yeah, and TARS actually survived because he was communicating with Matthew telling him about the future humans who built the tesseract.

I must be thinking about Damon's robot that he cannibalized for parts and then blew up killing the black guy. (I never remember movie names).

Regarding that first dude in the hospital room I was a bit perplexed as others that he at least didn't have some kind of oh **** facial expression upon seeing Matthew.

I guess these people are so jaded living on Nivens Ringworld that the first ever time traveler is old hat.

TCTTS said:

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A couple of things...

A key part of the doctor's dialogue to Coop at the end...

DOCTOR
Well, the station isn't named after you, sir. It's named after your daughter. Although, she's always maintained just how important you were.

And then in the next scene, the administrator who's showing Coop around...

ADMINISTRATOR
I actually did a paper on you in high school. I know all about your life back on earth.

In other words, Coop is absolutely famous enough to warrant *some* kind of reaction from his family. Every time I watch the ending it bugs me how expressionless this dude, specifically, is when he first sees Coop. Even a simple look of astonishment from him, or any kind of expression from any of the other family that implied "Holy sh*t, that's our grandfather" (or great grandfather) would have gone such a long way...

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Their cold reception to him makes the view feel ostracized. I always thought it was sort of a mood design by Nolan to illustrate how much of a stranger the world was to Coop when he returned, thereby making his run to Brand make more sense.

Speaking of Brand, presumably, as Coop approaches the event horizon of the black hole, he should have experienced way more time dilation relative to Brand. In fact, it should have been infinite to anyone observing from outside the black hole.

But we know that's not the case in the movie, because Coop comes out of the black hole. So that means the fifth dimensional bulk beings don't experience time, and therefore Coop's approach through the event horizon would not be infinite in their observation. So, you have to think that the bulk beings used the tesseract to pull Coop out and place him specifically at a point in spacetime. The interesting thing is why they would have put him in that time and place after his daughter saved humanity. Presumably, to specifically be with Brand.

DallasTeleAg said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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YouBet said:

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DallasTeleAg said:

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Akshually... it was TARS that was sent into the black hole. CASE went with Dr. Brand.

ETA: keep typing "Mann" when I mean "Brand"

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Yeah, and TARS actually survived because he was communicating with Matthew telling him about the future humans who built the tesseract.

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I love this movie, but this is the part that I just pretend to understand, but actually don't. Is it one of thoe "paradoxical" things? If human survival basically hinges on him and him only, how would there be any future humans to throw him a bone? Am I misunderstanding?

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I think you would have to start going down the rabbit hole of theories on whether time is linear and such. I'm sure Nolan did the research and spoke to Kip Thorne about the theories explored in this movie. It's very similar to Arrival in that plot point.

Is it paradoxical to say the only way we survive something is to go back in time to give our past selves an item or knowledge? If so, how did we ever survive in the first place? I have no clue, and nor do I feel like spending hours researching it.

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Not necessarily, but if the survival of the human race depends entirely on one man for survival or it is completely eradicated, it hurts my brain to contemplate how hyper advanced humans from much further in the future could have given him the keys to helping humanity survive. Most Christopher Nolan movies hurt my brain though, as awesome as they are.

TCTTS said:

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Also, I've posted this before, but if anyone's curious I've uploaded the original draft of Interstellar that Jonathan Nolan wrote for Steven Spielberg in 2008. While Spielberg apparently heavily collaborated on this draft, he obviously ended up passing, and then, once Chris was done on The Dark Knight Rises, he ended up rewriting Jonathan's draft into the movie we have today.

I've only ever read the first act or so (parts of which I actually like better than the final product), but apparently Chris' second half is a lot better - or is at least way different - than Jonathan's, so it sounds like it was for the better. Still, I keep meaning to read this whole thing, and definitely want to do so before the big re-release this fall...

https://jumpshare.com/s/Dq69Et6rLUikDJpDWUjA

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That old script is absolutely fascinating! It's really different from the Interstellar we now know.

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Their cold reception to him makes the view feel ostracized. I always thought it was sort of a mood design by Nolan to illustrate how much of a stranger the world was to Coop when he returned, thereby making his run to Brand make more sense.

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This is likely the "real" explanation, which I can buy.

I still don't love the choice, but it certainly works if that's what the purpose was. You might even say we're seeing that scene from a subjective POV, and not an "objective" one.

Here's another interesting "paradox."

Coop goes to space at 35 earth years ("EY"). Murph is 10 EY.

Coop goes into cryo for about 2 years to fly to Saturn. Coop is 37 EY, Murph is 12 EY.

Coming off the water planet, 23 years have passed on earth, making him 60 EY, and Murph 35 EY. ("Today is my birthday, and it's a big one, because I'm the same age you were when you left.")

Coop and Brand go to Mann's planet. Chaos ensues, they have to sling shot around Gargantua and 51 years pass on earth. Presumably, the trip to Mann's planet, the chaos, and the approach to Gargantua took 8 EY because Coop is now 119 EY ("You don't sound bad for a guy pushing 120!"), Murph is 94 EY.

Coop descends into the black hole. Let's not worry about relativity at this point as he approaches the event horizon. He descends into the black hole and is pulled into the tesseract. He transmits the code to Murph, who received it between ages 35-40 (This is a guess based on the life events that happen on Earth, i.e., Professor Brand aging and dying and Murph discovering that he was lying about saving everyone. Regardless, it doesn't matter much.)

So what does all that mean?

Murph solved the problem and humanity built and launched "Cooper Station" sometime during the moments Brand and Coop were orbiting Gargantua, meaning Murph already had the data before Coop entered the black hole to obtain the data to send to Murph in the tesseract.

MW03 said:

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Here's another interesting "paradox."

Coop goes to space at 35 earth years ("EY"). Murph is 10 EY.

Coop goes into cryo for about 2 years to fly to Saturn. Coop is 37 EY, Murph is 12 EY.

Coming off the water planet, 23 years have passed on earth, making him 60 EY, and Murph 35 EY. ("Today is my birthday, and it's a big one, because I'm the same age you were when you left.")

Coop and Brand go to Mann's planet. Chaos ensues, they have to sling shot around Gargantua and 51 years pass on earth. Presumably, the trip to Mann's planet, the chaos, and the approach to Gargantua took 8 EY because Coop is now 119 EY ("You don't sound bad for a guy pushing 120!"), Murph is 94 EY.

Coop descends into the black hole. Let's not worry about relativity at this point as he approaches the event horizon. He descends into the black hole and is pulled into the tesseract. He transmits the code to Murph, who received it between ages 35-40 (This is a guess based on the life events that happen on Earth, i.e., Professor Brand aging and dying and Murph discovering that he was lying about saving everyone. Regardless, it doesn't matter much.)

So what does all that mean?

Murph solved the problem and humanity built and launched "Cooper Station" sometime during the moments Brand and Coop were orbiting Gargantua, meaning Murph already had the data before Coop entered the black hole to obtain the data to send to Murph in the tesseract.

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Pretty crazy....wasn't Coop also giving the data to himself...as 35 y/o him and 10 y/o murph were in the room observing the way the dust was settling on her bedroom floor??? I need to rewatch again.

Correct. The tesseract the 5th dimensional beings created gave him a window into a nearly unlimited number of moments in Murph's timeline for her room. He sent them the coordinates for NASA before encoding the data into his watch.

So the fifth dimensional humans are from a future further out than the humans on Cooper Station. I was thinking it was Murph and her team that had sent Coop into Tesseract but that doesnt make sense now that I type it.

Actually, Back to the Future would avoid this paradox, because as soon as Marty interfered with the past in 1955, he created an alternate timeline. (As seen in the last few minutes of the movie.)

So in Interstellar terms, the fifth dimensional beings who provided the tesseract for Cooper, were actually from another future in which humankind was likely near extinct and thus they wanted to create a new timeline where humanity survived.

The one you might say is bull**** is The Terminator, since the movie is a time loop. (Unless of course you subscribe to the theory that Kyle Reese was not John Connor's original father.)

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Actually, Back to the Future would avoid this paradox, because as soon as Marty interfered with the past in 1955, he created an alternate timeline. (As seen in the last few minutes of the movie.)

So in Interstellar terms, the fifth dimensional beings who provided the tesseract for Cooper, were actually from another future in which humankind was likely near extinct and thus they wanted to create a new timeline where humanity survived.

The one you might say is bull**** is The Terminator, since the movie is a time loop. (Unless of course you subscribe to the theory that Kyle Reese was not John Connor's original father.)

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I've always assumed that humanity would have continued without getting the gravity data, but that perhaps it occurs too late in the future human timeline then to avoid some OTHER future fate yet to occur. So the future dimensional humans look to the past in order to speed up their advancement so that they have a timeline that stands a chance against whatever is to come.

I would have loved to see this resolved in a sequel.

javajaws said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Actually, Back to the Future would avoid this paradox, because as soon as Marty interfered with the past in 1955, he created an alternate timeline. (As seen in the last few minutes of the movie.)

So in Interstellar terms, the fifth dimensional beings who provided the tesseract for Cooper, were actually from another future in which humankind was likely near extinct and thus they wanted to create a new timeline where humanity survived.

The one you might say is bull**** is The Terminator, since the movie is a time loop. (Unless of course you subscribe to the theory that Kyle Reese was not John Connor's original father.)

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I've always assumed that humanity would have continued without getting the gravity data, but that perhaps it occurs too late in the future human timeline then to avoid some OTHER future fate yet to occur. So the future dimensional humans look to the past in order to speed up their advancement so that they have a timeline that stands a chance against whatever is to come.

I would have loved to see this resolved in a sequel.

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This thought has crossed my mind as well. And that would make the most sense to me.

But the whole plot was that they chose Murphy to get the data to because she is the one who solves the problem of gravity. How would they know that if Murphy and Cooper never went to NASA and therefore Murphy never studied under Dr. Brand?

Hmm, good point.

Although I suppose it's possible Murphy's bloodline ended up being important in the original non-tesseract timeline, and they chose her as the best candidate. (Like a reverse Terminator)

Admittedly that's a bit of a stretch at this point.

I'm more shocked that it came out a decade ago. I saw it release day. That was only like 4 or 5 years ago!