The sanderlanche feels like it started page 1

Agreed!

When people ask me, "What book are you reading?"

Just finished it. Lot of thoughts. Good things and bad things. Where everything sits at the end... i'm surprised how good I am with it. Very interesting.

That is all.

Finished it this morning...started last night at 77%. Had to put it down at like 96%.

lot of pieces being moved in that last 4%!

Enjoyed seeing the nod to Szeth getting a happy ending back in a life much like what he was ripped from as a kid

Sanderson either has things really well mapped out or can tie together storylines supremely. He has as many POVs going as GRRM did in ASoIaF, but he didn't get tied in a Mereeneese knot. He may have slightly on a Cosmere level, but the time dilation to sync up Scadrial/Roshar was a good move

I had a feeling pretty early in the book that this was gonna end with 2 shards being united. Thought it was going to be Honor/Cultivation somehow. When Dalinar took Honor, it was very unsatisfying. Glad that wasn't the final outcome

Yikes Navani, getting trapped in a fabrial...rough outcome for her. I think I'd rather be in Braize

Overall a great read. Way better than RoW. One critique is that Sanderson's desire to seemingly represent every intersectionality group started to feel a bit heavy handed in this one, and killed the immersion at times. And less so things like the Renarin/Rlain storyline, and more the random things like "oh, here's a token trans character that I'm going to mention for 2 paragraphs because yay!" or Rysn making her fortune off "mobility devices" (for a world hopping epic like this to somehow make something feel anachronistic is impressive). I feel like having relatable struggles in a few major characters is a much better way to do this then the "everyone gets an avatar" approach...and I say this as someone who would rather the Renarin/Rlain storyline not be a gay one. Make me relate to a characters more universal emotions, like he did there. If the most distinguishing feature of a character is the box they check, it does a disservice to the story as a whole, as well as to the more well-fleshed out "abnormal" characters.

But yeah, the estimated decade until we get book 6 is gonna be rough!

Pretty much a lot of the same sentiment as I had through much.

**Finished the book**

I was pleasantly surprised at how interesting Szeth's backstory was. Finally fleshing out Shinovar was something I very much enjoyed in the book. Add that to Szeth and Kaladin's journey, I'm so happy we didn't have to deal with another 500 pages of depressed bridgeboy. I get that depression and whatever other "mental illness" Kaladin deals with may not be able to be dismissed so easily, but I don't need to read 100K pages of him being a sad little man. I get it... he's sad. Move on. Was happy that wasn't the case in this book.

The constant jumping of POV worked very well, even though it happened so often. I think this can be attributed to the format of the story and each section taking place in a day. The book went by really fast due to this format, imo.

It really seems like the next arc of the Stormlight Archive will be even more Cosmere focused. I'm pretty sure we will see a lot more displays of Investiture as we start moving through the second arc. Not to mention, the changes that will happen on Roshar itself.

I also agree that Dalinar picking up Honor originally felt lackluster, and was happy with the way that ultimately turned out. I cannot stand main characters dying in lackluster ways, but Dalinar's ultimate decision was interesting and made me very interested in where everything will go from here. It's sad to no longer have my favorite character, but seeing where Kaladin ultimately ended up in his arc gives me hope for the future. I'm also very interested in getting much more of the Heralds in the future books. Though, I bet they don't even Return in the 6th book. We'll probably get an entire book with no Kaladin, and then have a single chapter at the end or something.

Speaking of the Heralds, Brandon finally giving us Taln going all out off screen kind of pissed me off. I get what he was going for here, but couldn't he have given us someone's POV watching the greatest warrior in the history of Roshar laying waste to Fused and Regals? We didn't get enough of our badass heroes being badass heroes in this book, and seeing that sure would have helped.

Finished this morning. Long ass book.

Best line of the book, and a laugh out louder for me:

"I'm his therapist."

I think my favorite line was "'12124' said 12124" bc it reminds me of one of my favorite lines from WoT (a memory of light, a Sanderson book) "'Knotai' Knotai said"

Lathspell said:

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Speaking of the Heralds, Brandon finally giving us Taln going all out off screen kind of pissed me off. I get what he was going for here, but couldn't he have given us someone's POV watching the greatest warrior in the history of Roshar laying waste to Fused and Regals? We didn't get enough of our badass heroes being badass heroes in this book, and seeing that sure would have helped.

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I wonder if we get more details of it during Taln's POV book. It seems like anything that happens off screen always ends up being a way more intricate piece than originally described with this series

IDK... we never got Skar and Drehy's POV of their escape from Kholinar with Gavilar back in Oathbringer. That would have been awesome to see.

Wrapped this up

Wowowowowowowowow

This book filled me with so much dread in the second half, like I was straight up not sure how anything would end on a remotely hopeful note. Even when it kind of did it ended on a pretty depressing note which is kind of impressive.

Time dilation baby, I was curious how back half would sync up with space age

I called Gav being the champion but second guessed myself when Gav came out with Navani. I think Gav might now be the single most tragic character Brandon has written

Glad to get confirmation of Chana and I am glad that Shallan actually spoke to her

I did figure soon in that Szeth's spren would be Aux. the lack of the name, Sigzil's doubts. I was not expecting to also seeing the Dawnshard transfer

What I take away from this is I expected a few things but even then Brandon did it in ways I was not expecting

Shallan is pregante, pregert, preggers right

bangobango said:

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Finished this morning. Long ass book.

Best line of the book, and a laugh out louder for me:

"I'm his therapist."

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What's funny is that one is getting dragged on r/fantasy

People who say they have DNF'd this book because of some of the anachronisms in language and Brandon's writing I can't take seriously

Was some of it odd sure. But to DNF, he'll no

Saxsoon said:

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bangobango said:

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Finished this morning. Long ass book.

Best line of the book, and a laugh out louder for me:

"I'm his therapist."

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What's funny is that one is getting dragged on r/fantasy

People who say they have DNF'd this book because of some of the anachronisms in language and Brandon's writing I can't take seriously

Was some of it odd sure. But to DNF, he'll no

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wasnt Wit, the world hopper, the first to say it? It would make sense that he would have a larger vocabulary

That's the funny part

That one didn't bother me as much honestly and frankly r/fantasy have much less reading comprehension than they like to believe

Maya calling Adolin a **** threw me off though

Saxsoon said:

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That's the funny part

That one didn't bother me as much honestly and frankly r/fantasy have much less reading comprehension than they like to believe

Maya calling Adolin a **** threw me off though

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I found Maya's line to be jarring but still funny. Kaladin's felt as forced as his therapy attempts. I did feel like there was an attempt at Marvel like humor that I don't remember being present in the first 4 books that as a whole, took away from my overall enjoyment of the book slightly.

I actually don't remember that Wit line but I kinda am less perturbed by him using it having been elsewhere on other planets. I even then with Maya don't mind because it is 1 word in 450000

It does feel like Brandon is trying to get every intersectional community thrown in. Steris is organic and I don't feel like was defined by her autism. I can't say as much about other characters. There were several tiny little one offs throughout. Also the stuff with Colot and being lighteyes felt like a comment on affirmative action

bangobango said:

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Wit makes a joke about Sadeus and sl*ts in the Way of Kings. I remember that line specifically because it was jarring when I first read it.

I'm pretty sure there is previous setup between Wit and Kaladin about therapy and therapist.

Sanderson is going to hopefully learn that all those people praising him for putting representation in the books and portraying mental health will be the first ones to turn on him the second that they don't think he is doing it right. There is no appeasing those types.

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1. Sanderson 100% includes "those types" in his research and writing.
2. He is very in tune and conscious of the impacts of mental health challenges. He's fine there.
3. Brandon, despite being Mormon, is very liberal. If you don't like "DEI" type messages, you probably shouldn't read his books. It's all over the place - humans being voidbringers, Jasnah and her changes to male hierarchy, gay characters struggling with acceptance, lighteyed sense of god-given genetic superiority- those are just the obvious things.

CapCityAg89 said:

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bangobango said:

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Wit makes a joke about Sadeus and sl*ts in the Way of Kings. I remember that line specifically because it was jarring when I first read it.

I'm pretty sure there is previous setup between Wit and Kaladin about therapy and therapist.

Sanderson is going to hopefully learn that all those people praising him for putting representation in the books and portraying mental health will be the first ones to turn on him the second that they don't think he is doing it right. There is no appeasing those types.

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1. Sanderson 100% includes "those types" in his research and writing.
2. He is very in tune and conscious of the impacts of mental health challenges. He's fine there.
3. Brandon, despite being Mormon, is very liberal. If you don't like "DEI" type messages, you probably shouldn't read his books. It's all over the place - humans being voidbringers, Jasnah and her changes to male hierarchy, gay characters struggling with acceptance, lighteyed sense of god-given genetic superiority- those are just the obvious things.

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I've been reading Sanderson since he published Elantris so shut up maybe?

Since he interacts with his fanbase a lot, both in person and online, I'm going to assume he's had countless numbers of fans tell him how much it meant to see themselves represented in a story they love.
So it's probably natural to want to try to include more.

There were a handful of times I had to roll my eyes or just kind of skim through until he actually started writing plot again. He's been my favorite author for a while now, but I personally find that his attempts at philosophy and addressing mental health stuff fall pretty short of the rest of his writing.
This was probably 4th out of 5 for me, but still a very good book and better than anything else I read this year. He's just set a high bar for himself.
Exited to see where he plans to go with the 2nd half of the series

I'm not saying this is entirely the reason, but I remember a few years ago there was some online outrage directed at him that essentially boiled down to him being Mormon and donating money to either the LDS church or BYU, who have some traditional views that the Reddit crowed viewed as problematic. Since then, it's felt like his writing style has been more diverse.*


*he's had a trans character in the Stormlight archive since WOR and had been setting up Rlain for the WAT developments since at least Oathbringer. Also, it's the first fantasy series I can think of where the majority of the cast is not white. Online people are just going to be mad no matter what.

Awesome. Me too. So you should know those things then. And it's a message board "shut up" is easily the most condescending thing you can type.

Just finished.

Thoughts in no particular order.

1. This book didn't need to be as long as it was. I know Sanderson is world building, but I'm concerned he's actively adding more words than necessary "just because" and not because the story needs it. There was so much stuff introduced in these books that we have zero conclusion to. Not even a hint.

2. That being said, this books feels incomplete almost. We have no real idea what the layout of Roshar is going ot looks like. What's the meaning of unbonded shards? What's the future? Jasnah just kind of ends. It's an unsatisfying end. I guess he uses the time warp to have us eventually pick back up.

4. The whole Rlain and Renarian was stupid and pointless. If I was gay or supported it, I'd be pissed. Sanderson basically took the two "odd" characters and implied they were odd because they are gay. Dumb and a waste of words.

5. Like others I didn't expect Dalinar to take up Honor. I actually thought it would be Adolin as the one person who didn't want any of the power.

6. Kalidan's arc felt forced and could have been handled better imo. There was always the conflict of warrior vs surgeon and there wasn't balance in this book. Him now "healing" the Heralds is too convenient.

7. Szeth backstory was great and we finally understand what happened to him.

8. Dalinar brave until the end. Perfect.

Cosmere wise, are we going to see the rebuilding adonalsium? The shards are being consolidated. Is this the inevitable conclusion? that what makes a God (or man) is having all aspects being balanced?

I'm not sure how I feel about this book. It's good, but has flaws. I almost feel this book became a lot like era 2 of Mistborn. Cosmere building yes, but really just setting up future books. Too many unanswered questions.

That all seems pretty fair and accurate to me

I really don't buy the unanswered questions complaint. He is setting up mysteries for the second half. The book was long as **** as is, it didn't need 100 more pages going on about the changes when that will clearly be better handled after the time skip. The unbounded shards is clearly going to be a focal point when we first return because outside of Lift and the edgedancer, all of the other radiants are imprisoned in Urithiru. Also Lift being a focal makes so much more sense given her Lifelight so she can still have her awesome. I think also the unbounded stuff takes some conversations in Sunlit Man into a new direction.

We resolved a lot and set up plot points for the future.

I mean, we realize there's five more books, right? If he answered and resoved everything, then why read book six?

I guess the reason I say it's unanswered/unresolved is that this wraps up the "first arc" but in reality, little is wrapped up.

So if we are just saying the first arc is the coming of Retribution sure, but for most characters, their arc is left unresolved

Has Sanderson said what the time jump will be for the next set of books?

If we are going to pick up with the characters, that would signal a minimal jump, but it's also implied that the Heralds will have a lot of time to recover.

So I guess what could happen is we pick up with many of the characters in the second arc, but for someone like Kalidan, he's not going to show up until the final battles whenever those happen and however many years in the future

10-15 years is my understanding. This will also allow it to catch up with Scadriel in the modern day so to speak given the time dilation

Sanderson on a reddit post
https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/s/ZoTOgDUrxM

Quote:

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Good question, and I have noticed this criticism. I'll watch it in future Stormlight books, but I can't say that I think Wind and Truth is much beyond my other novels. I just went back and re-read the first few chapters of Elantris, and to me, they use the same conversational, modern tone in the dialogue as you see in Wind and Truth. I feel like this hasn't changed--and I've been getting these criticisms since the early days, with phrases like "Homicidal Hat Trick" in era one Mistborn or even "okay" instead of "all right" in Elantris.

I use Tolkien's philosophy on fantasy diction, even if I don't use his stylings: the dialogue is in translation, done by me, from their original form in the Cosmere. You don't think people back in the middle ages said things like, "Just a sec?" Sure, they might have had their own idioms and contractions, but if you were speaking to them in their tongue, at the time, I'm convinced it would sound modern. Vernor Vinge, one of my favorite SF authors, took this approach in A Fire Upon The Deep, making the (very alien) aliens talk in what feels like a very conversational, everyday English with one another. A way of saying, "They are not some unknowable strange group; they are people, like you, and if you could understand them as intimately as they understand each other, it would FEEL like this."

The thing is, one of my biggest comparisons in fiction is GRRM, who prefers a deliberately elegant, antiquated style (punctuated by the proper vulgarities, of course) for his fantasy, much as Robert Jordan did and Sapkowski still does. They'll reverse clause orders to give a slightly more formal feel to the sentences, they'll drop contractions in favor of full write outs sometimes where it doesn't feel awkward, they'll use older versions of words (again, when it doesn't feel awkward) and rearrange explanations to fit in uses of "whom." All very subtle ways of writing to give just a hint of an older way of speaking, evoking not actual medieval writing, but more an 1800s flair in order to give it just that hint of antiquity. (Note that newer writers get this wrong. It's not about using "tis" and "verily." It's about just a hint--a 5% turn of the dial--toward formality. GRRM particularly does this in narrative, rather than dialogue.)

In this, they prefer Tolkien stylings, not just his philosophy. (Though few could get away with going as far as he did.) This is a very 80s and 90s style for fantasy, while I generally favor a more science fiction authory style, coming from people like Isaac Asimov or Kurt Vonnegut. (And Orwell, as I've mentioned before.) I'm writing about groups, generally, in the middle of industrial revolutions, undergoing political upheaval as they modernize, with access to world-wide, instantaneous communication. (Seons on Sel, Spanreeds on Roshar, radio on Scadrial.) I, therefore, usually want to evoke a different feeling than an ancient or middle ages one.

So yes, it's a stylistic choice--but within reason. If I'm consistently kicking people out of the books with it, then I'm likely still doing something wrong, and perhaps should reexamine. I do often, in Stormlight, cut "okay" in favor of "all right" and other things to give it just a slightly more antiquated feel--but I don't go full GRRM.

Perhaps the answer, then, is: "It's a mix. In general, this is my stylistic choice--but I'll double-check that I'm not going too far, and maybe take a little more care." While I can disagree with the fans, that doesn't mean an individual is wrong for their interpretation of a piece of art. You get to decide if this is too far, and I'll decide if I should re-evaluate when I hit book six. That said, if it helps you, remember that this is in translation by English from someone doing their best to evoke the TONE of what the characters are saying in their own language, and someone who perhaps sometimes errs on the side of familiarity in favor of humanization.

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That is a good repsonse

Feels like if Sanderson style of writing in WaT was a big hangup, you should have noticed in one of the four 800+ books you've already read in the series.

Yeah most of the time it doesn't bother me, but as I was marathoning thru the last few hundred pages there was a couple phrases that pulled me out. Calling Ishar's darkness he pours out on Kaladin and Szeth "distilled 200 proof awfulness" was a pretty big stretch, especially since it wasn't dialog and he still went on to call it Horneater white, which everyone would have understood on its own if they've read at all thru WoK or beyond.

Overall agree with what others have said. Lots of awesome moments (Adolin berzerking thru the singer lines to save the Azish shardbearer, Adolin taking down the thunderclast, Shallan stabbing Iyatil in the face and tricking Mraize, Szeth and Nightblood wrecking fools, Ishar going full Billy Madison " I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul" when Szeth renounces his oath") but nothing that touches my top 3. Fantastic book overall, love how it's been setup, and excited for getting into Mistborn 3.

Now that I'm a little more removed and let the book soak in, couple standout sections

1. Taln is a freaking beast. The level of destruction he brought. Even the other Heralds were in awe of him....And the dude never freaking broke. Not once. If not for Shallan, this whole series never happens. And he was the first to step up to rejoin the oathpact. I can't wait to read this guys backstory.

2. Speaking of Shallan. Daughter of a Herald. Many guessed this was the case, but the reveal was awesome. And then remembering that her mother was at her wedding and getting to speak to her. Excellence.

3. And Kaladin stood. A true testament to how he has developed. And while I still don't like they turned him into a defacto pacifist, that he was the one to stand was fitting.

4. Sigzil. What character development. Going from a bridgeboy to holding a dawnshard. And we see the pain of what he had to do and what he will do that leads to the Sunlit man. Excellent.

I'm sure there is more I'll think about on it, but wanted to make sure I gave the book a fair shake.

Ornithopter said:

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Feels like if Sanderson style of writing in WaT was a big hangup, you should have noticed in one of the four 800+ books you've already read in the series.

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I give Sanderson some leeway. Yes some stuff sounds like a 13 year old boy is writing about sex or making quips, but he more than makes up for it with badass lines like "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do," and completely emotional lines like, "You will feel warm again," "She had been broken. Then she smiled. Oh Storms, she smiled anyway," Etc.

Also, how about this setup from the very first line of the very first Shallan flashback in WOR?


"The world ended, and Shallan was to blame."

so i may be a bit confused. I thought odium had found a way around the oathpact with the everstorm, he didn't need a herald to break IOT send his fused back. I kinda thought shallan and her mom mistakingly took credit for starting the true desolation. Was Chana breaking the real cause and the everstorm was just a coincidence?