Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Theoden still had a good arc though. He had to make a choice to finally face Saruman's army and eventually ride to save Gondor rather than running and hiding.

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I thought Jackson's adaptation of Theoden, along with Bernard Hill's portrayal, is one of the highlights of the trilogy. I can't imagine someone watching the movies and thinking that is a weak point to the adaptation.

Sorry but Theoden in the Battle of Pelennor Fields was absolutely awesome in the movie.

Theoden is the best character on screen and Rohan has the best music.

Even when every book reader is rolling their eyes at the fake drama created when Theoden acts like he won't go help Gondor in ROTK, it is ice water chills in the vein when Aragorn busts in and announces "Gondor calls for aid!" and he takes a beat and declares "AND ROHAN SHALL ANSWER."''





Although one could argue the book version would have been even more bad ass. They've just fought the battle of their lives to save Helm's Deep and when word arrives that the forces of Sauron are attacking Minas Tirith in the form of the Red Arrow, he doesn't hesitate at all, he's like Wolverine and Deadpool - LFG. That's pretty bad ass too. Like he got that taste for killing orcs and now that's all he wants to do.

His book version also just doesn't stand there and get mauled by the Witch King, he challenges that mofo, and then gets mauled.

And no Theoden post should ever happen without quoting this:

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of war nor of wizardry, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note.
Horns, horns, horns, in dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed.
Great horns of the north wildly blowing.
Rohan had come at last."


and

Fey he seemed, or the battle-fury of his fathers ran like new fire in his veins, and he was borne up on Snowmane like a king of old"

and:

"I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed."

which is even better when you recall that some of the last words of Thorin Oakenshield were

"I go now to the halls of waiting to sit beside my fathers, until the world is renewed.

They do get those daggers, but it's just given by Galadriel, instead of found in the Barrow Downs, and only in the extended edition. Yet another reason why the Extended Edition is the ONLY way to watch The Fellowship of the Ring!

I think that scene is fine left to his interpretation. In the book, we are not really given a reason for Theoden's appearance when Gandalf and the Fellowship first arrive. We are just told how decrepit Theoden looked and that he walked with a cane. It wasn't until Gandalf brought him outside and cleared away much of the gloom in the sky to reveal sunlight, and then kick Theoden's walking stick away, that Theoden seemed to come to his senses. There seems to be an insinuation of some form of leechcraft, perpetrated by Grima.

I would argue that Jackson's interpretation is much easier for an audience to follow and gives an easier to understand scenario to the viewer than what a direct adaptation from the book would give.

However, whether the movie version or the book version of this confrontation, at least both include Grima calling Gandalf the elvish word for Ill-news is where I first got my gamertag, 20 years ago, lol.

My favorite movie score track of all time...

You can literally take any scene from the movie and the score is peak cinema scoring.

However, it's hard for me to put the FotR score over the others because it doesn't have any of Rohan's lietmotif. I have to bundle the entire score of the full trilogy, in my head.

Pippin is really young compared to everyone else. When they form the Fellowship, he's only 28, which is still a child for Hobbits. Frodo was 50, Sam was 38, and Merry was 37.

When Gandalf came back to The Shire, Pippin was only 11. There was a 17 year gap between Gandalf leaving for Minas Tirith and Frodo setting out to destroy the One Ring. Tough to show that on film, though

Moe Jzyslak said:

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Pippin is really young compared to everyone else. When they form the Fellowship, he's only 28, which is still a child for Hobbits. Frodo was 50, Sam was 38, and Merry was 37.

When Gandalf came back to The Shire, Pippin was only 11. There was a 17 year gap between Gandalf leaving for Minas Tirith and Frodo setting out to destroy the One Ring. Tough to show that on film, though

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My greatest regret of a line of dialogue not included from the books is in ROTK when Gandalf finds Merry in the Houses of Healing after he's helped Eowyn kill the Witch King and he says, "He should have been borne in honour into this city. He has well repaid my trust."

If you think about it, all of the Hobbits have acted very heroically up to that point, and obviously Sam and Frodo are sneaking into Mordor by then, but Merry is the first among them to really confront death and see the value of honor and let go of his fear to do the right thing.

And at the Black Gate when Aragorn makes his charge, Pippin is the first to follow him, immediately followed by Merry. Their growth is amazing

Quote:

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And as if in answer there came from far away another note.
Horns, horns, horns, in dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed.
Great horns of the north wildly blowing.
Rohan had come at last."

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The fact that Jackson didn't give us Gandalf's confrontation with the Witch King at the gates of Minas Tirith is so ridiculous. It's decisions like this that has lowered my opinion of RotK, over the last 20 years.

One of the most epic moments in the entire book, and Jackson completely rewrites the siege. I honestly don't understand the point of this change. It reeks of the Halfblood Prince movie changes, adding the Burrow scene. I'm stuck asking, "Why?"

The sheer imagery of a scene like that would have been beautiful to see. Instead, we get a stupid extended edition scene where the Witch King destroys Gandalf's staff. What? Are you serious? Where the hell did that come from? I truly hate that scene and just wish Jackson had more faithfully adapted the siege of Minas Tirith.

This also leads to another weak point of the Siege of Minas Tirith... a lack of characters. We never really get to know Minas Tirith or its people, in the movies. I think it's one of the reasons the stakes don't feel as high as they do in the Battle for Helm's deep. In the book, we get so many great scenes with Beregond and Pippin, which does so much to make us care more about the people of the city. Also, there are SO many more heroes in the books I wish we got to see kick ass. No Prince Imrahil and his knights, no Dunedain (including Halbarad), no Sons of Elrond, and no other lords of Gondor.

I was okay with Eomer not being at the Battle of the Hornburg because we do get one of the most epic moments in the entire series, with him leading the Riders to rescue the King. But I just wish we got more for the Siege of Gondor and Battle of the Pelennor.

I kind of get what Jackson was going for. He was building a world where the men of the west have basically fallen into uselessness and despair, with not much fight left in them until our heroes appear to save the day. In the books, it wasn't like this. The men of the west were still strong and proud, but were disjointed because there was no King to truly unite the free peoples under one banner.

I'm going to have to reread LOTR soon. Will be like reading the entire thing all over again. It's what sucked me into fantasy like so many other Gen X'ers back in the early 80s.

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For me the TT & ROTK just haven't aged well and dare I say it's just too much of the same thing. Honestly

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Lathspell said:

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You can literally take any scene from the movie and the score is peak cinema scoring.

However, it's hard for me to put the FotR score over the others because it doesn't have any of Rohan's lietmotif. I have to bundle the entire score of the full trilogy, in my head.

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Same. The score for the trilogy is the GOAT and one of the greatest works of music of all time.

Here is a good map with all the treks routed - it's interactive

Interactive Map of Middle-Earth

"Fly, you fools".

This is my favorite book series by FAR. I've re-read the entire series (including the Silmarillion) every 3 or 4 years since initially reading The Hobbit and then the LOTR in middle school.