Borrowed this post from Over_ed.

WSJ says Hollywood is the new Detroit

• Since 2021, days of production in Hollywood have dropped by half (~39K - ~ 18K).
• Hours worked by entertainment unions are down about 1/3.
• Streaming companies(Netflix, Amazon...) have cut orders substantially.
• Younger viewers are spending their time on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok.
• Production costs are unsustainable in LA, meaning more production is located out of California, or increasingly replaced with AI.

Ultra high costs from being in California, a increasingly crappy product with unsympathetic spokespeople and their alienating political positions.

Everyone has seen the reel of film breaking, getting stuck in the projector, and then the fire starts. Now its playing out in real life.

it's burning

For the unititiated, a Detroit Style decline is like a regular decline except square and thicker https://t.co/XClTx56tqg

— David Burge (@iowahawkblog) April 2, 2026

Sense of humor is lost on many.

I know this hurts the feelings of a lot of people who center their whole identity around politics, but DEI wokeness and a liberal propaganda aren't moving the needle at theaters.

They are like reason #143 and #144 people aren't going to the movies as much.

The things the original article mentioned like price, theater experience, attention span, home streaming, originality and alternative options (Youtube, etc..) are what impact theater attendance.

I don't want remakes; I want good original content. PHM was very good.

Proposition Joe said:

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I know this hurts the feelings of a lot of people who center their whole identity around politics, but DEI wokeness and a liberal propaganda aren't moving the needle at theaters.

They are like reason #143 and #144 people aren't going to the movies as much.

The things the original article mentioned like price, theater experience, attention span, home streaming, originality and alternative options (Youtube, etc..) are what impact theater attendance.

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And perhaps most importantly. California is ridiculously expensive to do business in thanks to unions, ridiculous government regulations, etc. People are still making movies, they're just not making them in Hollywood. But I suspect AI will continue to cut into those numbers significantly as well as time goes on.

Completely agree, for the most part. But if you look at both movies and TV, I firmly believe "wokeness" has damaged a decent amount of products and contributed to audience decline more than you attribute to it in your post. Post-EndGame Marvel leaned heavily into what can be considered progressive tendencies in their storylines and casting and as a result we've seen the audience not showing up for either their movies or Disney+ shows. Same goes for Star Wars, with the same results. Oh, and the decision to go with Black Snape in the new Harry Potter show is causing unnecessary waves that may or may not reverberate in the ratings once the show actually comes out.

Don't forget Covid and the Covid nancies destroyed theaters.

The US box office reached $1.77B in the first quarter of 2026.

The best start to the calendar year at the domestic box office since the COVID-19 pandemic.

(https://t.co/debm6kKhef) pic.twitter.com/jMmM3AbVHI

— Film Updates (@FilmUpdates) April 2, 2026

PatAg said:

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Project hail Mary just came out.

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I loved the quote Gosling had that it's up to Hollywood to make films worth seeing (like PHM) in theaters to help save the film industry. Not up to the movie goers to just show up for any and everything made

Just posting here what I put on F16:

I think their wokeness is an impact but I also think this board assigns too much weight to wokeness as a reason. It's one of many reasons including the ones listed in the OP.

Hollywood is not the center of the film universe like it once was. There are now multiple geographical film hubs in the US. India and China have huge film sectors now.

Hollywood (California) is expensive as hell so it's facing the same financial headwinds every other business in that state is facing. And now you throw in AI and they are facing an existential crisis from that maybe more than any other sector in the country.

I'm old and all, so I know I'm out of touch and just yelling at clouds, but I will never, ever understand preferring to stream a movie at home over watching in the theater. Project Hail Mary, for example, is an event and is just meant to watch on a big screen with an audience. And I say this as a person who generally dislikes crowds and being around people.

Belton Ag said:

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I'm old and all, so I know I'm out of touch and just yelling at clouds, but I will never, ever understand preferring to stream a movie at home over watching in the theater. Project Hail Mary, for example, is an event and is just meant to watch on a big screen with an audience. And I say this as a person who generally dislikes crowds and being around people.

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Expense and convenience factor higher for most people these days.

85 inch tv and no heavy breathing fat ahole near me digging into his bag of skittles like he's looking for the golden skittle at the bottom of the bag is why my theater experience is limited to 2-3 per year. I turn out for the greats I can't wait for (not many of these in a year) or those that should be a visual spectacle on the big screen.

DannyDuberstein said:

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85 inch tv and no heavy breathing fat ahole near me digging into his bag of skittles like he's looking for the golden skittle at the bottom of the bag is why my theater experience is limited to 2-3 per year. I turn out for the greats I can't wait for (not many of these in a year) or those that should be a visual spectacle on the big screen.

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I am not fat!

LOL, seriously though, at whichever movie I saw before PHM, there was a woman several seats down who brought a big bag of those small Reeses cups that are individually wrapped. For nearly a third of the movie, she was digging into that bag and then unwrapping the Reeses she dug out of it. I don't even remember which movie it was but I do remember that cow feasting on Reeses

FL_Ag1998 said:

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Completely agree, for the most part. But if you look at both movies and TV, I firmly believe "wokeness" has damaged a decent amount of products and contributed to audience decline more than you attribute to it in your post. Post-EndGame Marvel leaned heavily into what can be considered progressive tendencies in their storylines and casting and as a result we've seen the audience not showing up for either their movies or Disney+ shows. Same goes for Star Wars, with the same results. Oh, and the decision to go with Black Snape in the new Harry Potter show is causing unnecessary waves that may or may not reverberate in the ratings once the show actually comes out.

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I believe this to be the case, 100%.

I think one of the laziest arguments I see, when all these movies and shows comes out, are those from people saying it's just not a good movie and it has nothing to do with woke or DEI stuff.

However, I believe DEI and wokeness in the industry forces changes or focus from simply creating the best art possible. Hell, you can apply that to just about anything. If I had someone looking over my shoulder, with every email I send in a day, constantly telling me I misused a word or telling me I need to use more inclusive language, I would not get as much work done. My emails would no longer sound like me. I would also start feeling incredibly frustrated and have to rethink every decision I make about how that person will react when they see it.

All of that is NOT conducive to creating something with pure creativity. Slowing down the process increases costs and/or rushes the process to meet timelines, thereby making the product worse. Changing verbiage or words changes the 'voice' of the storyteller. It also brings attention and generates conversations about stupid **** that overshadow the movie or show.

There is absolutely a reason we haven't had a GREAT comedy for a long time. In the 90's and early 2000's, it seemed like we got 6-8 hilarious movies a year, with at least 1-2 of those being great comedies that we all still look at favorably, today. Comedy in movies is basically dead. I'm sure someone could come up with a few decent comedies, from the last 15 years, but they don't even come close to what we got before.

I disagree, the DEI argument is the lazy one.

The era that you say comedies have taken a dive, the horror genre has absolutely risen from the dead. Action movies at an all-time high. And in the case of the latter, it's definitely not thriving due to a new found political correctness.

It's because that is what is selling. Making a big budget comedy just doesn't have the ROI it once did compared to making an action flick or something with a well known IP or a scary movie that will do big streaming/international numbers.

What comedies from the 90s or early 2000s that you look back fondly on do you think are off-limits today due to wokeness? Maybe Tropic Thunder? Borat? I'm struggling to find anything else.

Proposition Joe said:

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I disagree, the DEI argument is the lazy one.

The era that you say comedies have taken a dive, the horror genre has absolutely risen from the dead. Action movies at an all-time high. And in the case of the latter, it's definitely not thriving due to a new found political correctness.

It's because that is what is selling. Making a big budget comedy just doesn't have the ROI it once did compared to making an action flick or something with a well known IP or a scary movie that will do big streaming/international numbers.

What comedies from the 90s or early 2000s that you look back fondly on do you think are off-limits today due to wokeness? Maybe Tropic Thunder? Borat? I'm struggling to find anything else.

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You're not wrong in many of your points, but you're dead wrong in completely dismissing the effect of political correctness on comedies.

American Pie, Blazing Saddles, and The Office are three right off the top of my head that wouldn't get made.

There's been numerous comedians and actors that have stated clearly in no uncertain terms that comedy has been affected dramatically by the extreme political correctness of the past 10-15 years. Mel Brooks, Jerry Seinfeld, Dennis Miller, Chris Rock, John Cleese...the list goes on.

You're either incredibly oblivious to those statements or intellectually dishonest in your attempt to completely dismiss the recent progressive/poltically correct era's affect on Hollywood. And I say that as someone who doesn't go overboard on criticizing Hollywood liberals and totally agrees there's a lot of contributing factors (rising tickets prices, etc).

Proposition Joe said:

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I disagree, the DEI argument is the lazy one.

The era that you say comedies have taken a dive, the horror genre has absolutely risen from the dead. Action movies at an all-time high. And in the case of the latter, it's definitely not thriving due to a new found political correctness.

It's because that is what is selling. Making a big budget comedy just doesn't have the ROI it once did compared to making an action flick or something with a well known IP or a scary movie that will do big streaming/international numbers.

What comedies from the 90s or early 2000s that you look back fondly on do you think are off-limits today due to wokeness? Maybe Tropic Thunder? Borat? I'm struggling to find anything else.

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I think it's fairly well known and accepted that the comedy genre partially fell off a cliff due to our recent era of left wing political correctness. As an example, you have well known comedians (ex: Jerry Seinfeld) who have shared that they stopped touring colleges because the younger crowds simply can't handle comedic ribbing. Ricky Gervais practically makes it a theme in his stand up routines and Bill Burr has commented on it as well.

I also think it's partially due to what you said but then passive censoring of comedy movies would have resulted in other genres taking up the slack, if you will, also.

Both can be true.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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I disagree, the DEI argument is the lazy one.

The era that you say comedies have taken a dive, the horror genre has absolutely risen from the dead. Action movies at an all-time high. And in the case of the latter, it's definitely not thriving due to a new found political correctness.

It's because that is what is selling. Making a big budget comedy just doesn't have the ROI it once did compared to making an action flick or something with a well known IP or a scary movie that will do big streaming/international numbers.

What comedies from the 90s or early 2000s that you look back fondly on do you think are off-limits today due to wokeness? Maybe Tropic Thunder? Borat? I'm struggling to find anything else.

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You're not wrong in many of your points, but you're dead wrong in completely dismissing the effect of political correctness on comedies.

American Pie, Blazing Saddles, and The Office are three right off the top of my head that wouldn't get made.

There's been numerous comedians and actors that have stated clearly in no uncertain terms that comedy has been affected dramatically by the extreme political correctness of the past 10-15 years. Mel Brooks, Jerry Seinfeld, Dennis Miller, Chris Rock, John Cleese...the list goes on.

You're either incredibly oblivious to those statements or intellectually dishonest in your attempt to completely dismiss the recent progressive/poltically correct era's affect on Hollywood. And I say that as someone who doesn't go overboard on criticizing Hollywood liberals and totally agrees there's a lot of contributing factors (rising tickets prices, etc).

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So we're going two movies and a TV show... And one of those movies is from 1974?

The Office would absolutely get made today if they could find that same magic. They've tried to like a dozen times. Yeah, the stereotype episode and a few other gags may be left out, but people mis-remember those type scenes being the bulk of the show, and it wasn't. And there's plenty on non-network TV that go much further than that -- have you caught Ted on Paramount? South Park, American Dad, Family Guy, etc... all still playing.

American Pie wouldn't get made today, but that's not some new DEI wokeness reason. Comedies like that fall in and out of popularity. Porky's was big in the 80s, then fell out of favor. American Pie actually resurrected that genre.

Now you can make the case it fell out of popularity due to people being more in-tuned or "woke"... but yeah, a guy sticking his dick in a hole in the women's shower as a prank probably isn't viewed in the same "oh just boys being boys!" as it was before. To make the case even further - Its Always Sunny In Philadelphia, about as far from a "woke" show as you can get, even pointed out how the optics on movies like that have really not aged well.

A movie like Superbad shows you can still have the "kids trying to get laid" without pushing into sexual assault territory (ie. Revenge of the Nerds tricking girl thinking he was someone else as protagonist-worthy).

Again, I'll bring up the horror genre. It has absolutely thrived the last 10-15 years and it's far from woke or politically correct. It's thrived because there's money in that market and an appetite for it.

DEI blaming is just lazy analysis coming from the people who center their whole identity around politics.

If you dont think DEI and wokeness has affected comedies, then I dont think I can have a good faith discussion with you. Literally any great comedian will confirm what ive said. Go listen to just about any Rogan podcast with a comedian, and they talk about what it's like behind the scenes.

Especially because stand-up is BOOMING right now, but those same comedians are not given the free reign, by studios, to create shows or movies.

Are movies more expensive to go see, today? Sure. But I have not gone to the theater to see a marvel movie since No Way Home. It's not due to ticket prices. I dont even pay attention to how much they cost. I dont go to the theater anymore because the movies simply suck and my friends and i have no desire to go see them. And I believe they suck based on my other post.

South Park is a shell of its former self and no longer looks to offend everyone. It sticks to offending mostly one side.

Proposition Joe said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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I disagree, the DEI argument is the lazy one.

The era that you say comedies have taken a dive, the horror genre has absolutely risen from the dead. Action movies at an all-time high. And in the case of the latter, it's definitely not thriving due to a new found political correctness.

It's because that is what is selling. Making a big budget comedy just doesn't have the ROI it once did compared to making an action flick or something with a well known IP or a scary movie that will do big streaming/international numbers.

What comedies from the 90s or early 2000s that you look back fondly on do you think are off-limits today due to wokeness? Maybe Tropic Thunder? Borat? I'm struggling to find anything else.

---

You're not wrong in many of your points, but you're dead wrong in completely dismissing the effect of political correctness on comedies.

American Pie, Blazing Saddles, and The Office are three right off the top of my head that wouldn't get made.

There's been numerous comedians and actors that have stated clearly in no uncertain terms that comedy has been affected dramatically by the extreme political correctness of the past 10-15 years. Mel Brooks, Jerry Seinfeld, Dennis Miller, Chris Rock, John Cleese...the list goes on.

You're either incredibly oblivious to those statements or intellectually dishonest in your attempt to completely dismiss the recent progressive/poltically correct era's affect on Hollywood. And I say that as someone who doesn't go overboard on criticizing Hollywood liberals and totally agrees there's a lot of contributing factors (rising tickets prices, etc).

---

So we're going two movies and a TV show... And one of those movies is from 1974?

The Office would absolutely get made today if they could find that same magic. They've tried to like a dozen times. Yeah, the stereotype episode and a few other gags may be left out, but people mis-remember those type scenes being the bulk of the show, and it wasn't. And there's plenty on non-network TV that go much further than that -- have you caught Ted on Paramount? South Park, American Dad, Family Guy, etc... all still playing.

American Pie wouldn't get made today, but that's not some new DEI wokeness reason. Comedies like that fall in and out of popularity. Porky's was big in the 80s, then fell out of favor. American Pie actually resurrected that genre.

Now you can make the case it fell out of popularity due to people being more in-tuned or "woke"... but yeah, a guy sticking his dick in a hole in the women's shower as a prank probably isn't viewed in the same "oh just boys being boys!" as it was before. To make the case even further - Its Always Sunny In Philadelphia, about as far from a "woke" show as you can get, even pointed out how the optics on movies like that have really not aged well.

A movie like Superbad shows you can still have the "kids trying to get laid" without pushing into sexual assault territory (ie. Revenge of the Nerds tricking girl thinking he was someone else as protagonist-worthy).

Again, I'll bring up the horror genre. It has absolutely thrived the last 10-15 years and it's far from woke or politically correct. It's thrived because there's money in that market and an appetite for it.

DEI blaming is just lazy analysis coming from the people who center their whole identity around politics.

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Dude, you're clearly not arguing in good faith or don't know what you're talking about, lol. The Office is literally an example where the actors and or creators have said those shows would not get made today.

https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/rainn-wilson-couldnt-make-the-office-today/

There are plenty of titles that would be unlikely to be made as they were.

Blazing Saddles
National Lampoon's Animal House
Caddyshack
Airplane!
Stripes
Porky's
Revenge of the Nerds
Coming to America
Ace Ventura
There's Something About Mary
South Park movie
Old School
Wedding Crashers
Tropic Thunder
Superbad

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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There are plenty of titles that would be unlikely to be made as they were.

Blazing Saddles
National Lampoon's Animal House
Caddyshack
Airplane!
Stripes
Porky's
Revenge of the Nerds
Coming to America
Ace Ventura
There's Something About Mary
South Park movie
Old School
Wedding Crashers
Tropic Thunder
Superbad

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Could someone remake Fast Times at Ridgemont High without major changes?

Lots of drug use/mentions

Masturbation

Abortion

A fair amount of nudity and teen sex

Underage sex (Stacy was what, 15 when she went to The Point with the stereo sales guy?)

I think you are ignoring reality and arguing just to argue now.

FTR, Cinco and I actually took the position that DEI was a factor and not the factor but you seem to be arguing the latter.

It's clearly a factor that has impacted the comedy genre. This is not even arguable.

Note that we both agreed that your other arguments for comedy declining are valid as well.

I don't think you can make The Hangover (which came out in 2009) or its sequels today. I can't even write "Paging Dr. Fa--ot" on this board because it is seen as too offensive.