I have participated and help build actual bonfires on campus. Please tell me (and many others that I feel are just like me) why we should support an unauthorized bonfire.

Not on Campus
Not full participation (Corps)
No Coaches
No Players
In Robertson County
Not University Related
Privately Funded etc...

Not meant to be a mean sprited question but a legit one for someone who doesn't see the the bonfire as being currently legit.

[This message has been edited by Aggiefan#1 (edited 11/17/2007 7:11p).]

Who is going to build Bonfire when it returns to campus?

Methods, knowledge, practice...they would all be lost without Student Bonfire.

Not really. Building Bonfire is not an acquird skill. We could not build one for years and build one just fine when we decided to.

The University would not use anyone associated with off campus bonfire anyway.

Is there any chance Bonfire comes back?? I would love for it to be back on campus but did not know that was being discussed.

quote:

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Not on Campus
Not full participation (Corps)
No Coaches
No Players
In Robertson County
Not University Related
Privately Funded etc...

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1) Why does it have to be on campus?
2) Corps boys go out there, they just can't participate as a "unit" due to admin
3) The coaches we have haven't been performing on gameday, why worry about them on burn night?
4) We've had some former players show up,
5) It has to be somewhere, since it can't be on campus.
6) Well, it wouldn't be off campus if the University would take it back with open arms.
7) Who cares where the funding comes from?

Your reasons all seem pretty asinine to me.

What made Aggie bonfire, bonfire?


Was it the money the university made off it being on campus? Was it the fact that the university liked it as a prominent aggie symbol on campus?

Or was it the spirit it built between ags, to be a tradition that was our own, and no-one else's.

Those who talk about it not being bonfire because it's not being burned on campus never got the idea behind bonfire... burn is just a little piece of the picture.

I look at it like this...if it started without the approval of the university, it does not require there approval.
____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A Whoop!!!.
= texags


[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 11/17/2007 8:21p).]

I mean this in the best way possible and apologise for any hint of sarcasm. I represent myself and nothing I say is meant to be spoken on behalf of any group.

quote:

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Who is going to build Bonfire when it returns to campus?

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Bingo. As a member of the class of '03 and co-founder of the largest off campus Bonfire (then Unity Project), we were worried that we would graduate from A&M without passing down the knowledge of how to build Bonfire to the next generation of Aggies.

The Bonfire in 2002 was essentially a pile of horizontally laid logs in a log-cabin design shaped like a sawed-off bevo. The point was not to have a stack that was like '99, it was to teach 3 years of Aggies how a crew worked, how Bonfire was organized, how to cut down a tree with an axe, how to carry a log, how to load a log, etc. etc.

In short, it was not intended to be every aspect of on-campus Bonfire, relocated. As nice as that would have been, it took everything we had (and the max of our credit cards) to get the thing built and burned.

With that said, let's address your topics one by one:

1. It's not on campus. That has been impossible, and will be impossible until the lawsuits are over. You could have every component of Ol' Army Bonfire present at off-campus Bonfire and you'd still be saying that OC Bonfire isn't "THE BONFIRE". FYI: The first ten or so Bonfires were off campus. Were they "real?"

2. Not full participation (Corps) I was in the Corps and I participated. I was the Executive Officer of my outfit and I lead a crew of individuals from my outfit in 2002 all through cut and stack. Although members of the Corps are not allowed to participate in Bonfire in any official capacity, I assure you that there have been hundreds of CTs and BQs work on OC Bonfire.

3. No Coaches See the above. A coach is a singular individual who represents the University in everything he (or she) does. Given the right motivation, I believe OC Bonfire will eventually get a former coach out to OC Bonfire. On a personal note, I hope the first is Fran

4. No Players The first OC Bonfire was attended by members of the A&M Football Team. Search for posts during that time and you'll find a story by a TexAgs poster who saw such an individual carrying some kids back to their car when they were too tired to walk. I don't know of any accounts of players attending subsiquent Bonfires, but I'm sure it happened.

5. In Robertson County See comment #1.

6. Not University Related See comment #1. Just know that OC Bonfire is covered by the Batt every year, gets attention by University officials (in comments to the Batt and in letters to the students about Bonfire), and is worked on by members of most of the dorms on campus. It's not University Sanctioned, but is a vital part of the A&M experience for those who participate.

7. Privately Funded I hate to break the news to you, but on-campus Bonfire was funded over 50% by private individuals and organizations. The pre-'99 Reds spent their summers fundraising at almost every Aggie Mom's and County A&M Clubs. They got money from big donors (like the people the buildings on campus are named for) and thousands of former students....

... in the same way that Off-Campus Bonfire does. The dilligent and persistant Reds of Bonfire 2007 raised enough money to build Bonfire without a single line of credit, admission ticket, red cent from the University, or t-shirt sold. That's right. What the University subsidized 50% (plus the use of University resources and land), Student Bonfire did 100% on their own.

With enough effort, I can find thousands of Aggies who will tell you that off-campus Bonfire is the real Bonfire to them. Having worked on both on and off-campus Bonfires and met workers (and leaders) from many years of on-campus Bonfires (who have witnessed both on and off campus Bonfires); I can tell you that none of them have failed to tell me that the Bonfire that Student Bonfire puts on each year is the "Real Bonfire".

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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

opie03- totally agree. I was a Moses Hall crew chief back in 1993, and I applaud all of you for keeping the spirit alive.

People can find reasons to complain and try to degrade the tradition, but the fact of the matter is that an off-campus Bonfire is all we have now. Embrace the tradition, and it will continue irrespective of any admistrative recognition on the part of the university. Aggies and the Aggie spirit live beyond the borders of the campus, and we should support those unique traditions that define the Aggie family.

Ya, some AggieFan#1 you are. Pompous *******. "your bonfire is not real like mine, wah wah wah..."

That fire burns where we burn it because we want to carry on the tradition in the best way we know how and are able to. We do it for the fallen, we do it for eachother. We do it because we are Aggies, and we are not quitters.

quote:

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Please tell me (and many others that I feel are just like me) why we should support an unauthorized bonfire.

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Who, pray tell, "authorized" Bonfire in 1909?

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/18/2007 3:21a).]

Thank you Keegan for that statement. To the original poster, others have made their case more clearly than I ever could, but I will say this. To me student bonfire serves as the steward of tradition. We carry on many of the techniques and practices that made A&M bonfire what it is. We also have been the system through which conditions that led to the tragedy of 99 have been corrected and or improved Student Bonfire's primary goal is to one day be back on campus and we will do anything we can to guarantee that future aggies are able to share in the experience.

While all the supporters on this thread have a justifiable defense to the OP's comments, they must also realize that these aren't the sentiments of one person, but the sentiments of a great deal of people. Some people believe, and mayb always believe, that what's going on in Robertson county doesn't matter. It's unfortunate that you can't let them all know of your defenses to these objections, but the more difficult task would be to make them understand.

This, to me, is the current bonfire's biggest problem to overcome. They will have supporters, and that's a given, however to make that massive leap and try and get back to where Bonfire pre-99 was, people will have to understand...and want to understand.

Everyone must realize that there are two distinct groups for Bonfire. Always has been, always will be. The ones that build it and the ones that watch it. I have come to learn as I got older that both groups need the other to survive and they should embrace each other. I have posted thoughts on that several times on this board and others on TexAgs so I won' repeat all that here.

Only to say that you guys that are offering defenses have all valid ones, but they are geared more from the builders perspective. If you are trying to convince some of the old pots, workers, etc that what SB does is the same, then you have the right points and I agree entirely.

However, and this is not a slight, the other Aggies that only watch it have no insight to those experiences at all. Your arguments make no sense to them. For the OP, if, to you, Bonfire was just a source of warmth and light in the background during a Yell Practice, then, no, it's not the same. If it was a symbol of Aggie Spirit that you could stand around with your friends and family and feel that Spirit swell up in your chest, then, yes, it's the same.


Scott Coker '92

i was there to see unity project in 2002, helped with OC bonfire in 03 and 04 (cut and stack....even was there the night perimeter poles were awarded)

I am glad to see the tradition continue...here is to more years to come of bonfire burning

keep it up

Ahh, the "if it's not the way it was when I went to school, then it's not the way it should be" mentality is back!

That's also the exact reason we're mourning every November 18th instead of building "a real one."

For the exact itemized reasons you gave, this bonfire is about 10 times harder to execute than your "actual bonfire". The aggies that are there now have no other option and they are fighting harder and risking more for their bonfire than you ever had to.

Bonfire has always been a hard tradition to uphold. That is exactly what makes it special, and why it holds such a dear place in so many of our hearts. BTHOB

It's not about building a Bonfire, it's about being an Aggie.

You dont build bonfire... Bonfire builds you

Bonfire made its first appearance in 1907, but didn't become a school-sanctioned event for nearly thirty years. I don't see how those early years are diminished by the fact of students acting on their own initiative, at their own direction. If we are to condemn today's student bonfire as the original poster did here, shouldn't we also look on our past with disfavor?

The other aspect to student bonfire that shouldn't be ignored is that it actually places pressure on administration to return it to campus so that it can be better supervised. I hope to see bonfire return to campus in a teepee configuration that actually stands for a few hours before falling, and doesn't collapse. The current modified wedding cake done by student bonfire, with all logs touching the ground, is better than the old unstable wedding cake, but I think both fall too quickly. When's the last time center pole made it to midnight?

Sorry that was a terrible ramble of a post, but you get the idea.

BTHOtu!



I'm beefeater87, and I approve this message.

Way to approve of a message you yourself made.

I have not been able to attend since my son graduated and left Aggieland, but attended and wrote diaries about the Unity project and the first two student bonfires.

They were incredible experiences. One of my current high school students tells of his brother working on the one last year--and then going to watch it burn with him--and he is headed to Aggieland in his brother's footsteps.

In the strange circle of things, his brother was my student in middle school at the time of the collapse--and saw my horror and sorrow first hand in that longest of days--till I could get down there and hug my son.

Yes, the years I went we saw football players--those were RC's players and they went as individuals. We saw the linemen carrying the children to their cars. I don't know if any were their the year of the mudpit, but I know there were there the year before.

I just with the university would cooperate enough to "allow" the former bandsmen, yell leaders, and coaches to be there as honored guests--even if the current ones can't.

quote:

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When's the last time center pole made it to midnight?

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Um, didn't it stand past midnight last year?

"The current modified wedding cake done by student bonfire, with all logs touching the ground, is better than the old unstable wedding cake, but I think both fall too quickly. When's the last time center pole made it to midnight?"

I built bonfire in 06 and it didn't fall until days later.

[This message has been edited by FU10 (edited 11/18/2007 9:39p).]

That's nothing. Bonfire 2005 stood for six weeks.

It's because it couldn't burn right?
just getting my facts straight

Right.

quote:

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When's the last time center pole made it to midnight?

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The 2006 Centerpole stood until around 6pm on Thanksgiving day...

...the fire hand burned around it, and the coals eventually smouldered through the base.

The windle sticks had already burned completely.

Cokeman,

You bring up some good point but I think you are missing a key group of people as well. There are those who helped build Bonfire and do not support off campus Bonfire. There is a time and place for things to end. Many people believe 99 was that time and place. You will never change people's minds about this. People died doing something inherently unsafe. Most of these people wished it had not happened but have faced the reality of the situtation that has changed forever and will never be the same.

No, I get that Federale, my only point was that to make arguments about how the building and experiences in the woods are the same rings hollow to those that never cared about those aspects in the first place.

The group you are talking about will most likely never come around, and that's fine, it's their choice and opinion and they are more than entitled to it. There will always be those opposed to it and, you are right, a good number of those will not be swayed. I won't say "never" nor "all" because I have witnessed staunch opponents actually take the time and go out and see for themselves only to come away supporters.

Regardless, I'm not going to berate or condemn those that oppose it for the reasons you cite, but I do feel that they should offer the same courtesy to the Aggies that feel just as passionately the other way.

Scott Coker '92

I don't disagree with you there. I just think that many former students look at off campus Bonfire suspiciously.

From all the posts I have read on this board and others, it seems that this is going to be an ongoing struggle. There are a lot of current students who build Bonfire because it is a cool thing to do and they enjoy it. Basically they like to cut down trees and build a big fire. Yet, instead of calling a spade a spade, they wrap it the words like "sacrfice", "carrying on the traditon", "remembering the fallen", and making sure it doesn't die. Basically they think they are doing a service to A&M and all the rest of us and I think it turns some people off. I read the Bonfire memorial thread and this seems to have beared itself out at the service.

I do not doubt that many people are helping with Student Bonfire because they want to feel part of a tradition that has been around A&M for almost 100 years. But, I think many go out there because they want to hang out with other people, cut down trees, and then burn them down. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a part of something. That is after all why most campus clubs are formed.

Those people who look askew at off campus bonfire for these reasons aren't going to agree with it and will probably continue the deragatory comments.

[This message has been edited by Federale01 (edited 11/19/2007 12:12a).]

As a former student who built Bonfire in 94, I fully support the efforts of student bonfire. I agree there will always be a difference in opinion between those who worked on Bonfire and those who only showed up to see it burn.

Federale01, the cutting down trees, hanging out with friends, and working hard in the woods is the tradition of bonfire. I could go just about anywhere to swing an axe, or hang out with friends and have done so. But when I am in the woods for bonfire, a part of me feels connected with every aggie who got up at 5:30 on a saturday to go and carry bush through the woods. Our labor and the skills it develops is the most important part of the tradition of bonfire. What started as a burning pile of refuse has turned into one of the single most character building experience an aggie can.

Before people jump on me, I said bonfire is "one of the most", not the only good experience. To each their own, and for me and many others its bonfire.

[This message has been edited by Skrotez (edited 11/19/2007 9:32a).]

[This message has been edited by Skrotez (edited 11/19/2007 9:33a).]

Federale, I think we are in violent agreement.

Scott Coker '92

quote:

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When's the last time center pole made it to midnight?

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In addition to '06 and '05 (who said the stack had to actually catch and SUSTAIN a fire?), '04 also stood well past midnight. I can't verify that for '03 (mind at the time was fuzzy from pain meds), but I'm thinking it was close if not after midnight. I know it didn't stand past midnight in '02.

And for the record -- Opie and 3GA, your posts still inspire me... and Coker, your first post was dead-on.

[This message has been edited by northsidegreek06 (edited 11/19/2007 2:55p).]

Federale01, I agree completely.

I've worked on Bonfire this year with Hart Hall, and I've done so for the fun of it and to participate in what I view as an Aggie tradition.

I can't really understand it when people suggest that we're building it as a memorial to those who died.